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New Zealand Aviation Thread #64  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Posted (4 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 14740 times:
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Welcome to the 64th New Zealand Aviation Thread.

In thread #63 New Zealand Aviation Thread #63 (by 777ER Sep 29 2009 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:

- NZs Samoa aid work sees extra flights and bigger aircraft
- What airlines will next launch New Zealand routes?
- Flights to East Coast USA
- Pacific Blue's new tv ad - which now appears to be fully pulled from youtube due to Warner Music
- NZ reduces its domestic fares.

208 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14745 times:
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Just received an e-mail from NZ about the new fares and child fares are being removed. Instead Child fares are 25% less than adult's flexi plus fares. IMHO this will hurt NZ - especially during school holidays as parents will use DJ and JQ

User currently offlineJetstar315 From Australia, joined Sep 2007, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 14724 times:
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JQ only takes unaccompanied minors once they have reached first year at high school

User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14671 times:

One thing that I will share with you, because I am a bit amused. Because of peripheral vision issues, I now qualify for membership of the Blind Federation ( I can see OK otherwise). It seems that one of my chums uses his white stick only at airports because it helps him get to the front of queues. I wonder if this will work for me?

User currently offline767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14665 times:

Just like to express my thanks to 777ER in particular and all the contributors for doing such a marvellous job at keeping these New Zealand Aviation going. Amazing it's up to #64. We have had some interesting and very robust threads without having to decend into warfare. There have been some issues I have either agreed or disagreed with but it has been interestiing reading other peoples point sof view.

We have had some real dead duck though - international flights to IVC spring to mine and there was another priceless classic that I cannot recall.

Happy flying folks.

Cheers
767er



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14659 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 216):
Seems the competition is getting to NZ! No airline reduces prices so dramtically by choice. Seems NZ are sufferring with the increased LCC competition.

As Koruman said, it's a bit of PR in the way of price, if you look at lead in fares they have come down but the higher end have gone up with a lot more flexability though

Ground TG992



-
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14634 times:



Quoting TG992 (Reply 5):
As Koruman said, it's a bit of PR in the way of price, if you look at lead in fares they have come down but the higher end have gone up with a lot more flexability though

I think that the revised fares are generally sound, but that the airline really has misread the damage that abolishing child fares did to long-haul in Business Premier.

In the one and only market area in which Air NZ has already abolished child discounts, we have seen loads fall markedly. The airline has blamed this on the global recession, which I think is particularly naive and a gross oversimplification.

Air NZ management just doesn't seem to realise that the 5-10% of additional seat sales in any class which are child fares is often the difference between viability for a route and failure. As I have often written, sectors like LAX-LHR have traditionally run even outside school holiday periods with around 10-15% of passengers on child fares in business class and 20-25% in Economy, with those numbers doubling during the 28 weeks per year when British or American schools are on holiday.

I first flew Air NZ as a teenager in 1981, but I became a loyal passenger in around 1994 as a young professional. As I moved from being a dependent child to a student to a young professional to a parent and ultimately an executive with school-age children Air New Zealand has always had products to attract and retain my loyalty. To be honest, the one thing more than any other which locked in my loyalty was when, as a newly minted professional in 1994, I flew AKL-LAX-LHR and got to use a Silver upgrade on one sector and was op-up'd on the other. I'd only got the Silver status by flying 1.5 AKL-LHR economy returns to see my family, and I thought "wow, I'm special with Air NZ in a way I wouldn't be with Qantas. I'm going to be loyal to them because they treat me well".

Unfortunately, the current management don't appear to understand that the people who are going to occupy my sort of position in 2020 find that in 2009 they are newly graduated professionals with very young kids and big student loans to repay.

Knocking out child discounts except for the highest fares is a really well-targeted way of destroying the loyalty of tomorrow's professionals. It's dumb management.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14548 times:
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Quoting Koruman (Reply 6):
Unfortunately, the current management don't appear to understand that the people who are going to occupy my sort of position in 2020 find that in 2009 they are newly graduated professionals with very young kids and big student loans to repay.

Knocking out child discounts except for the highest fares is a really well-targeted way of destroying the loyalty of tomorrow's professionals. It's dumb management.

I know several people with young families at work who have student loans or are still studing and are NZ FF. Since JQ arrived here, those people have done more flights on DJ and JQ compared to NZ have 5 of them have now lost their status with NZ.

If NZ further remove the discounted child fares on the cheaper fares for long haul and short haul International, then NZ can say goodbye to more family's who will simply use QF/JQ, EK, DJ etc. This decision IMHO WILL hurt NZ in the long run

When I did a WLG-CHC-WLG trip last month during the school holidays, there were around 30 kids combined on both flights, 10 of those kids were UMs. For a family of 3+, costs are rising for them and with operating as their childs 'taxi' service for sports and school runs its going to become even harder for families especially with the costs of car regos rising thanks to ACC and petrol bills thanks to mostly Auckland's roads. With the constant rising bills, NZ is going to loose family's to JQ and DJ as they will be cheaper. What family in their right mind is going to be pay more for a childs fare from Monday then what they would pay right now if they booked a flight?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14462 times:



Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 2):
JQ only takes unaccompanied minors once they have reached first year at high school

IIRC UMs pay full price anyway

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
If NZ further remove the discounted child fares on the cheaper fares for long haul and short haul International, then NZ can say goodbye to more family's who will simply use QF/JQ, EK, DJ etc. This decision IMHO WILL hurt NZ in the long run

I doubt this will stretch to international travel. Domestic is a completely different ball game, one that has been through its changes more so than international over the last few years. The fact that they still get one checked bag can offset the difference a little bit anyway. We'll have to see what impact it has after it goes through a holiday period.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineCchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14432 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
Just received an e-mail from NZ about the new fares and child fares are being removed. Instead Child fares are 25% less than adult's flexi plus fares. IMHO this will hurt NZ - especially during school holidays as parents will use DJ and JQ

Don't children take up a seat, and have the same luggage allowance? To some, maybe this makes the flight more comfortable, without the screaming kids.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14427 times:

With the 30th anniversary of the Erebus crash approaching, rather than focusing on the darker memories, it might be interesting to get an idea of the high level of cabin service offered on the flight. Here is what was on offer.

The champagne breakfast was Grapefruit Maraschino, cornflakes, turkey omlette, grilled mushrooms, lambs kidneys, bacon, tomato, sauteed potatoes, bread rolls, croissant with strawberry jam or marmalade as well as tea or coffee.

Light refrehments included assorted pastries, petits fours and club sandwiches. Extra cakes had been loaded for a birthday of a passenger and to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the first flight over the South Pole. The large group of Japanese passengers on board had a selection of "Japanese delicacies" to savour as well.

Another main meal was served prior to reaching Antarctica. It was Bay Prawns and Scallops Antarctica, Tournedos Rosini or Chicken Souvaroff with braised onion, snow peas, spring carrots and parsley potatoes. Desert was a peach, meringue and cream creation which had been named "Peach Erebus".

(Source, "Whiteout" by Michael Guy, 1980).

[Edited 2009-10-17 03:01:27]


What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14370 times:



Quoting Cchan (Reply 9):
Don't children take up a seat, and have the same luggage allowance? To some, maybe this makes the flight more comfortable, without the screaming kids.

My point is not whether an adults-only flight is more comfortable. It's about whether it's a sound commercial decision.

And BTW, both my kids are Gold Elites in their own right (at ages 5 and 7) and I can assure you that they are considerably less obnoxious on each flight than certain other adult passengers.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14230 times:
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Just found this interesting challange to SWA and its CEO
http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNZnothing2hide#p/u/1/tfETlqvBAeE


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14084 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
Just found this interesting challange to SWA and its CEO

Would be good to see WN take up this challenge.  Cool

On the fare reduction saga, does this mean that JQ is now making inroads into Air New Zealand markets?, or is that JQ has tapped the market of "previously too expensive to fly" types? and the home airline is responding to the challenge.
If the latter is the case, it would seem to me that what happened in OZ is now happening in NZ, the $ speaks. I ask in all sincerity, not to inflame. I would appreciate some "IMHO" views on this.
Cheers.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14077 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 13):
On the fare reduction saga, does this mean that JQ is now making inroads into Air New Zealand markets?

JQ only serve the main trunk of New Zealand: between AKL, WLG, CHC and ZQN. The fare reductions happen to only be for the non-trunk flights as the main trunk flights have previously been reduced to cater for the competition of JQ and DJ. So the fare reduction saga has nothing to do with JQ; but possibly the introduction of propeller planes of another carrier already existing in NZ which may fly regional routes sometime. But yes, NZ is trying to get the vast majority of frequent domestic travellers to go NZ as you can book a flexi seat and be able to check in at the airport for any other flight as long as there are still seats available.

The trunk hasn't been "too expensive to fly" for a number of years now. JQ and DJ just made it a lot cheaper though. JQ would need to do a heck of a lot to start tapping into the market which NZ has a complete monopoly on. It could be wise for them to start off with flights to DUD and see how that goes before trying to stretch their legs with the A320 any deeper into the rest of the country without failing massively.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14069 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 14):
The fare reductions happen to only be for the non-trunk flights as the main trunk flights have previously been reduced to cater for the competition of JQ and DJ. So the fare reduction saga has nothing to do with JQ; but possibly the introduction of propeller planes of another carrier already existing in NZ which may fly regional routes sometime. But yes, NZ is trying to get the vast majorit

Thank you for clarifying that fare situ for me, I am aware of the possible prop threat, would become very interesting if it comes to pass.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12145 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14065 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 14):

It seems that NZ has reduced fares more then others on routes mostly which handle only ATRs or on routes that are likly to get further competition.

Auckland – Palmerston North

SMART SAVER
Old: $84
New: $79 (-6%)

FLEXI
Old: $234
New: $179 (-24%)

Christchurch – Rotorua

SMART SAVER
Old: $113
New: $99 (-12%)

FLEXI
Old: $370
New: $259 (-30%)

Wellington – Queenstown

SMART SAVER
Old: $116
New: $99 (-15%)

FLEXI
Old: $461
New: $269 (-42%)

Christchurch – Napier

SMART SAVER
Old: $128
New: $99 (-23%)

FLEXI
Old: $405
New: $229 (-43%)

Invercargill – Wellington

SMART SAVER
Old: $116
New: $99 (-15%)

FLEXI
Old: $365
New: $249 (-32%)

Those routes above are PERFECT routes for DJ to launch ATRs on and those routes have seen the biggest fare reductions. Maybe DJ are announcing something very soon and NZ decided to get in early so it wouldn't have to reduce their fares on the day of the announcement?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14061 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
Maybe DJ are announcing something very soon and NZ decided to get in early so it wouldn't have to reduce their fares on the day of the announcement?

NZ have done similar things before - They had a massive $10 grabaseat sale the weekend before JQ announced their startup and their own $10 fares so I wouldn't be surprised if DJ announce this order this week. Trying to steal the limelight a little IMO.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 921 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14043 times:



Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
It seems that NZ has reduced fares more then others on routes mostly which handle only ATRs or on routes that are likly to get further competition

Sheesh, look at those flexi fare reductions, what is that going to do to the P&L account of NZ? Some of those reductions are massive.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
Those routes above are PERFECT routes for DJ to launch ATRs on and those routes have seen the biggest fare reductions. Maybe DJ are announcing something very soon and NZ decided to get in early so it wouldn't have

It may have been mentioned in a previous thread, and I am too lazy tonight to look, but would DJ be certain to use ATRs?



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14017 times:



Quoting TN486 (Reply 18):
Sheesh, look at those flexi fare reductions, what is that going to do to the P&L account of NZ? Some of those reductions are massive.

NZ are in a strong position to brace for this anyway. Just imagine if there is competition - they'd have to bring the fares down and that would also impact on their P&L. So setting a standard for the other airline to match is a strategy which they hope will keep their load factors and also keep their main business customers. The thing for NZ is that they have schedules behind them. DJ will need to buy many ATRs to start "competing" fully with NZ - one service a day to each of the above destinations isn't likely to have a major dent on NZ. The massive reduction is only from the fully flexi fares to something similar to what was sold as flexi-saver. I wouldn't have a clue on how many people pay full fare..

Quoting TN486 (Reply 18):
It may have been mentioned in a previous thread, and I am too lazy tonight to look, but would DJ be certain to use ATRs?

You've only got one thread to look back on! You'll find that answer toward the end - which is ATR.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14012 times:

www.airnz.co.nz

And there we have it - the new fare system has been implemented. It's quite handy that it shows you what the fares include.. Smart Saver has 1 checked bag and Flexi Plus has 2 checked bags, airpoints dollars and free to change on day of travel.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13950 times:



Quoting Koruman (Reply 6):
but that the airline really has misread the damage that abolishing child fares did to long-haul in Business Premier.

Oranges and Apples Koruman, the domestic market is miles from those who want to pay child fares for BP  Smile

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 20):
And there we have it - the new fare system has been implemented. It's quite handy that it shows you what the fares include.. Smart Saver has 1 checked bag and Flexi Plus has 2 checked bags, airpoints dollars and free to change on day of travel.

Told you the changes would leave Pac Blue and Jet Star behind.

Ground TG992



-
User currently offlineJasewgtn From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13923 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 20):
free to change on day of travel.

And this may be just whats needed to get my work to pay for the flexi fares instead of putting me on smart savers all the time... Wish this was in place yesterday - wouldn't have had to spend 2.5 hours in AKL maybe between my flights from WRE to WLG..... LOL


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6429 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13823 times:

Airfares discount 'not enough'

Since when was HLZ comparable with AKL? That's what you get for living in such an area!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13816 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 23):
That's what you get for living in such an area!

Hmmmm? Pardon us poor, misguided hicks for living in the country.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 NZ107 : It was specifically aimed at Hamilton It gets made into more of an issue when you regard the city size. But no one wants to fly there and with no dem
26 Mariner : I suppose I understood that and was just having a little fun. But I do get weary of the tyranny of Auckland, and it applies to a great deal more than
27 Alangirvan : Related to Hamilton in a way - over in America there is lots of competition between airports who have a choice of different airlines. Here you have Ai
28 Koruman : Yes, ground TG992, I understand that but I think that the impact is probably the same. For me now, as a 40-something year old Gold Elite with 2 young
29 Darenw : You can get that fare for $8,356.00 if you fly next year with the special they have available.
30 Cchan : Sorry to hear you have to pay more to go on NZ. I guess those families wealthy enough to take 2 kids on Business Class aren't many. Most of the cryin
31 Mariner : CAK is interesting because the growth is driven almost entirely by Airtran (and some by Frontier). Three of the majors have some Express/RJ service t
32 777ER : Poor old HLZ and Mr Chesterman who have to pay more as they live in a city that only has regional service. Suck it up HLZ and just be glad NZ hasn't
33 Mariner : Curiously aggressive. I'm all in favour of people fighting to get better service/stuff for their community. MMP has pretty much killed meaningful loc
34 Alangirvan : I wonder if flights leaving Hamilton at crack of dawn for Australia and arriving last thing at night have any chance for people outside Hamilton? If y
35 NZ107 : Either that or signal to the market that there is no potential from HLZ (such as the case of SYD) and giving it a go could backfire.
36 Mariner : The dog in the manger? Haven't they signaled to the market that HLZ-SYD has no potential - and Pacific Blue has ignored those signals? I wasn't here,
37 NZ107 : And so far it seems like they're losing out. I think there was a post in the previous thread about how poor the bookings were for SYD-HLZ. Kiwi found
38 CHCalfonzo : It's an interesting situation. I believe there are a couple of reasons for DJ basing a plane in HLZ as opposed to having an afternoon departure. Numb
39 TG992 : You are pardoned No way! it's a different market and DJ and JQ do not offer discounts so why would NZ. How many families travel for a "family holiday
40 Cchan : And these younger passengers usually require more staff time.
41 Mariner : But they might consider or include Rotorua or Tauranga and these flight times effectively kill that, whereas a later morning departure might increase
42 HLZCPH : What a kneejerk reaction by a couple of you to HLZ and some half assed article from a councillor who loves publicity NZ won't quit HLZ, they do well
43 Nzrich : But with NZ offering ROT services i would doubt they would want to fly into HLZ if they were holidaying in ROT .. Also HLZ has always had the problem
44 Mariner : Why not? I doubt many fly into ROT and never leave Rotorua. I don't ROT is viable simply as a unique destination either, but it may be a valid entry
45 CHCalfonzo : NZ1 or someone else from NZ might be able to shed some light for me. Today when I drove past hangar 1 down here in CHC I noticed what looked like FRE'
46 777ER : I believe that was me who posted that from a news article. It also stated DJs new DUD-BNE service which is doing better then HLZ
47 Koruman : Anyone from Auckland going to Queenstown or Nelson or Christchurch? Anyone from Dunedin or Christchurch visiting the whanau in Auckland or Wellington
48 BlackLabel : Speaking as a "young professional" Gold Elite, I think you massively over-estimate the loyalty of most consumers in the current generation, and espec
49 Cchan : IMHO, NZ really needs to work on the Air Points scheme if it wants to improve customer loyalty. For those who don't fly long haul, it is rather diffi
50 NZ1 : FRE is still in CHC undergoing it's end of lease (EOL) check, before heading off to Brazil to fly for Webjet. No more aircraft are to be painted in t
51 Koruman : I'm one of the main beneficiaries of the scheme (as a long-haul business class passenger) but you're right, it's badly thought out. Really there shou
52 777ER : With the ability to earn airpoints being removed from the current banking card conversions shortly, its going to become even harder for customers to
53 ANstar : I agree with you here as a regular flyer... BUT as a business, you just need to look at QF and see how much they make from credit card income to know
54 Post contains links 777ER : Air New Zealand confirmed plans this week to start a new service between Paraparaumu and Auckland next October - http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post.
55 KiwiRob : Would any FF program from any other airline flying the same distance get you enough points for a free trip to Fiji? I think Koruman you live in a dif
56 Koruman : I'm not saying that the old earn/burn ratios were optimal, just that the program is now not an effective incentive in any class. To be frank, I stay
57 Cchan : Yes, on NH's frequent flyer programme, an AKL-NAN return ticket requires 22000 miles. If you fly AKL-LHR return on Y class, you'll earn about 23000 m
58 NZ107 : I've just noticed that CX will be actually offering First Class, the first time in something like 6 years when they bring back the 744 on the AKL-HKG
59 Viscount724 : Children's fares disappeared years ago on domestic routes in Canada/U.S.A. (and Canada-U.S. transborder) except for infants under 2 years not occupyi
60 Koruman : Because it is a competitive market, and if one competitor chooses not to join the race to the bottom they will pick up customers. Just consider South
61 CHCalfonzo : I don't think it is the difference in cost NZ are worried about, the lost revenue is more of an issue. Every seat taken by a child flying on a discou
62 Koruman : Yes, that's correct. But every family of young Auckland professionals in their cash-strapped "new mortgage, new kids" years which chooses to fly Paci
63 777ER : If JQ decide to operate the LAX routes then I think we might see NZ lowering their prices to better compete as NZ and QF group are currently the only
64 Cchan : I got this email from Air Points, and I begin to think about those who have used the points to book further awards, having seen or not noticing that t
65 CHCalfonzo : Why? Did it cause you any inconvenience...?
66 Koruman : In the Auckland-Queenstown example for 2 adults and 2 kids which I gave on the previous thread it was the difference between $790 on Pacific Blue and
67 KiwiRob : That's a pretty big assumption to make, not all professional people have jobs where they travel and not all professional people choose to fly at the
68 Kaiarahi : When I first moved from NZ to Canada as a graduate student in 1977, 2 adult fares + one child's fare + one baby's fare got us 4 seats on the bulkhead
69 Gasman : I see breaking news in the Herald that Air New Zealand are apologising for the Erebus disaster. This is totally commendable in my view and takes no sm
70 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ to offer economy class "seat-beds" Well here's the beginning of it - we have 6 months to debate until the actual thing gets released. If the 2
71 Post contains links 777ER : Air New Zealan apology 30 years after Erebus disaster - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2993...logy-30-years-after-Erebus-tragedy Anyone know if there
72 NZ1 : Some may be interested to know that our GM Tech Ops, Chris Nassenstein has resigned effective end of this year. He is heading to Qantas as their head
73 ZK-NBT : I could be wrong but if they sent the 744 here for a period of time they would have offered F last year. The 744 returns to AKL tomorrow until FEB 28
74 777ER : With CO now officially no longer a member of Skyteam, when could we expect to hear CO code-sharing on NZ routes?
75 NZ107 : Yep, I must make the most of this summer to see the 744 in town!
76 Alangirvan : Have you noticed that CO is starting to do NAN-HNL with 738s? That is almost an AirNZ route, and there would be some AirNZ FF passengers who live in
77 Post contains images PA515 : Does that mean you can post photos again from 1st Jan? PA515[Edited 2009-10-25 01:24:36]
78 ANstar : I didnt know this! Thanks for sharing... I'd like to fly this route and remembered FJ pulling out.
79 777ER : Yes. Its being operated by their Micro brand. Wonder if CO will extend their NAN ervices on to AKL with the B738s and NZ changes its code-share from
80 Zkpilot : He's going to have a battle on his hands at QF engineering.
81 Zkpilot : Interesting but I don't think that Chris Nassenstein is NZ1's alter-ego. I remember when Chris started at NZ... Also isn't he Canadian?
82 MillwallSean : I think Korumans reasoning is interesting and I for once agree with parts of it. My agreement is that Air NZ is missing out on the next generation of
83 DavidByrne : I believe that the routing applied for from the DoT was (bizarrely) HNL-NAN-GUM. However, there would be nothing from the NZ end or the US end to pre
84 NZ1 : I think that's why they have hired him. Look what he did at NZ a few years back. I guarantee he will try and do the same thing at QF. Threaten the gu
85 Post contains links OP3000 : Here's an interview with AirNZ chief Rob Fyfe, where he talks about the reasoning behind the recent apology from the airline for the way the airline t
86 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ trials seat deal as prelude to lie down An overhaul of the IFE? I'm presuming this has to do with making the 772 eventually touch screen like t
87 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ in deal with South African airline About time it was official, right? (WLG/CHC-)AKL-PER-JNB(-other places) codeshare and some TT flights.
88 777ER : Lets just say that I'm surprised it took till now to get a code-share deal considering the South African population here
89 Aerokiwi : Indeed, but at last it's happened! now for NZ to develop meaningful relationships with other Star carriers, like SQ, NH, SK and TAM. I wonder if this
90 NZ107 : I wouldn't be counting on that just yet. Because those booked through SA could just as easily take the existing QF codeshared flight to SYD and hop o
91 Post contains links Macilree : Of course it is necessary to have the traffic rights in place first, even for code sharing. The Associate Minister of Transport made a related media
92 Cchan : First, has anyone heard anything further about that rumour that some red ATRs will enter the regional market? Indeed, I don't think this codeshare bet
93 Aerokiwi : Hrmmm, a strange feature of this site that that quote is attributed to me
94 Alangirvan : Yeah, but Elvis has been seen walking the streets of Dunedin, or maybe they will hire John Travolta to fly the ATRs.
95 Alangirvan : Bit of a worry on front page of todays Otago Daily Times, a picture of an A380 - and story "Corrections flights under Budget". I did wonder if this me
96 Post contains links Mariner : http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/e...anded+nz-south+africa+air+services "The ban on New Zealand airlines uplifting passengers in Australia for Sout
97 PA515 : No, but there is the possibility of former Alitalia Express ATR's. About 12 September 2009 Magellan Aviation Services (Ireland) purchased 4 ATR72-200
98 PA515 : Not likely. In August I suggested a ten 763's a week schedule. Air NZ's reply included the following. "We have considered schedules designed to impro
99 NZ107 : Interesting. I wonder if it'd be viable to acquire a subfleet of 737-700ERs or something to fly thin routes from WLG/CHC. Keep AKL on as daily and in
100 777ER : Just been reading the WLG 50th Birthday celebrations magazine thats being held this weekend. An article in it is about the airports history which star
101 Alangirvan : You may not believe it, but the Otago Daily Times has carried a story about an Australian airline possibly starting service to..... Invercargill. Sour
102 Post contains links Mariner : Here you go: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-sourcing-737-from-naurus-our.html "Geoffrey Bowmaker, the former CEO of Nauruan carrier Our Airl
103 Post contains links NZ107 : Hawke's Bay runway cleared for takeoff The $9m 600m extension is going to be confirmed. They say JQ is already considering flying there when the runwa
104 ANZUS340 : I am curious is there much of a chance Air NZ could take over another airline within the next 5-10 years. Perhaps a more successful replay of the Anse
105 777ER : Was at the WLG open day today. The 'behind the scenes' tour of the International terminal/tarmac was really popular. WLGs new addition 'The Rock' is c
106 Zkpilot : Yes Virgin Blue/V Australia is the most promising and best potential tie-up for NZ. If you read over the last dozen or so New Zealand Aviation thread
107 ANZUS340 : Thanks. I shall do that. On a different note I did not know that the HB airport could not accept fully laden jets. I must admit I never did pay much
108 VirginFlyer : You flew in and out of Napier on a 737? I wouldn't be holding my breath, personally... V/F
109 NZ107 : NAC operated 732s into small centres of NZ when they operated.
110 767ER : The 732 also flew into PMR, HLZ & IVC .
111 Post contains links NZ107 : On the other hand, it looks like the DL/VA/DJ joint venture will be approved by the Aussies.. ACCC gives nod of approval Which could pave the way for
112 Post contains links 777ER : Jetstar vows to fight air safety levies - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...ar-vows-to-fight-air-safety-levies
113 ANstar : DJ have got extra NZ flights on their website ready for booking. SYD-WLG goes from 3 weekly to 5 weekly (M-F service). AKL goes from 7 to 10 weekly to
114 777ER : Looks like the extra flights are just the usual summer season extras as you can't book the extra flights from the end of summer. On a different note,
115 CHCalfonzo : These will be operated by the 738 which currently goes to Nadi. VA will be flying a 77W SYD-NAN from 18 December
116 777ER : What will happen to the 738 after summer?
117 Alangirvan : Could be the plane that DJ uses to start SYD-DUD when AirNZ winds that down after summer season (ever hopeful)
118 ANstar : Presumably the rotations will all get reworked. DJ155 SYDNAN is still showiing after christmas despite the fact it will cease to operate.
119 Zkpilot : What I think will happen is that VA will operate LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD. DL will operate LAX-MEL with its 77L due to their longer range and it being a thin
120 TN486 : Looking forward to seeing that
121 Pilotdude09 : The flight times you suggested are bloody terrible. Offer not domestic connections at all, and as NZ stated most people connect. Flown PER-AKL-PER in
122 Kaiarahi : Anyone know what aircraft is likely to fly NZ005 on November 26. The sked says 744, but I noticed they've been swapping in a 772 on some days. I'm fly
123 Alangirvan : I think if there is going to be a new carrier on AKL-LAX it makes senss for it to be V Australia because they do have a better known brand in NZ. Per
124 NZ107 : IMO you'd have better chances with the 744 by taking NZ1 because that's a 744 regardless. But I think NZ5/6 was back to 744 for the summer. It depend
125 Aotearoa : Air New Zealand has just announced the result of the B737-300 replacement program. Air NZ to replace domestic Boeing 737-300s with Airbus A320s Air Ne
126 Rongotai : NZ are buying 14 A320s to replace the domestic 737-300s, with options on a further 11. First delivery early 2011
127 NZ107 : 14 to replace 15.. Now is that going to have much impact on schedules? I guess by the time 2016 comes around, they could have probably ordered more. A
128 Post contains links Mariner : Knock me down with a feather - good news. Crikey has an article on it with this little piece of info, which I haven't seen anywhere else: http://blog
129 Gemuser : DJ can't operate Oz-NZ due to the conditions on the use of the Virgin name. I assume it will be operated by Pacific Blue (Australia), while WLG-SYD i
130 Dj738 : 777ER is correct. WLG-BNE services are operated by VirginBlue under a wetlease agreement. Which PacificBlue entity (be it PBNZ or PBAUS) the flight a
131 PA515 : The proposed schedule does offer domestic connections, just not the ones you might be used to. While the Tu Th Su AKL-PER 0645/1020 and PER-AKL 1130/
132 Cchan : Anyone has info on when do the current NZ 733 leases expire? Thanks.
133 NZ1 : 3 in 2011 and another 4 from 2012 to 2013. The rest are scattered from 2013 to 2016 NZ1
134 Gemuser : Therefore operated by Pacific Blue (Aus) via a DJ wet lease. Therefore operated by PBAUS, far, far more important than the wet leese operator, becaus
135 777ER : Were still waiting for this announcement!
136 NZ1 : I think this might have turned into a fizzer. I notice how the person who posted this has kept very quiet since. NZ1
137 PA515 : A recent post on pprune said DJ (Virgin Blue) was looking at ATR's for Australian operations. Perhaps the poster asssumed this applied to DJ (Pacific
138 Cchan : Thanks. Looks like the replacement will be rather slow in the first couple of years.
139 NZ107 : If they do happen to get ATR 72s, it sounds a bit contradictory on DJ's behalf and they'll have ERJs and props. It'd be interesting to know where the
140 777ER : Will be interesting to see how the loads stack up between the B733 and A320 once the first deliverys start, like will pax on purpose book the A320 fl
141 NZ107 : On an aside, the Kia Ora magazine now has winglets on the 763s. Looks like they just got the 744 one and downsized it to fit the 763.. It'll seem stra
142 PA515 : Ten 733's were leased and five owned when NZ's 'Fleet' information stopped giving details mid year about how many were owned or leased. Presumably ow
143 Cchan : There is probably a bit of data on this one. Didn't NZ at some stage put some A320s into the domestic network while the 733 went on maintenance? For
144 DavidByrne : My flight AKL-ZQN a few months back was an A320. Seemed from the timetable that the A320 operated just one weekly flight on that route at that time,
145 Kaiarahi : Thanks. The website booking allowed me to seat select for the 744 on NZ5, so I'll take my chances.
146 NZ107 : I think an A320 is flying the route again over summer for a while..
147 JaseWGTN : They have a seperate "Company" set up for these flights I beleive called "Virgin Blue Holdings" ICAO Code is VBH and ATC Callsign "Bluey" Their fligh
148 777ER : When you go to book a flight, your given a choice of different fares for different flights. Peak time are the more expensive fares while off peak pri
149 Post contains links Gemuser : Not quite. Virgin Blue Holdings (ASX: VBH) is the publicly listed holding company. It's not an airline, its just a company. VBH's wholly owned subsid
150 Post contains links 777ER : Heres Airbusses press release http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...09_11_03_a320_air_new_zealand.html
151 Post contains links 777ER : Lower fares, better ride likely with new Airbus fleet - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...tter-ride-likely-with-Airbus-fleet It is most likely th
152 Zkpilot : There are 5 owned 733s that could go at the start with the first 3 leases expiring...thats 8 aircraft in 2011 potentially, however with the RWC happe
153 777ER : I recently sent in an application to join Koru club as part of NZs 'Top of the world sale' and can't find anywhere where it says how long it will take
154 ANstar : Yes Bluebird is used for Pac Blue NZ and Bluey for Pac Blue AUS. My understanding is the BNE-WLG flights are part of an aircraft rotation that also d
155 777ER : Using PBAUS has helped PacBlue to expand and what will happen when things pick up again and PBAUS stop operating flights to WLG, will PacBlue NZ need
156 ANZUS340 : A couple of times. The last time I believe was in 1992/93, when I was on my way to U.S. Although the plane was an Air New Zealand 7372, if I remember
157 Zkpilot : " target=_blank>http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre....html I noticed this in the press release: "More than 6,400 Airbus A320 Family aircraft have b
158 DavidByrne : This is an old piece of Airbus spin. They justify it because, as you say, the 737-100 and 200 are quite different from the 737-300, 400 500, and agai
159 ANstar : Presumably if it is 1 aircraft of Aussie crews and 1 Aussie aircraft then the NZ operation would need to grow by 1 aircraft and the associated crews.
160 VirginFlyer : There we go then - I never realised Napier saw 737s, I'd always thought it was just the F27s... V/F
161 VirginFlyer : " target=_blank>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...fleet Another interesting snippet from that article: V/F
162 TravellerPlus : I've got a domestic NZ timetable from 1990. At that time NZ ONLY operated 737's to NPE, except for a few services to Gisborne and Hamilton with Eagle
163 NZ1 : Details with regards to NGP and NGR are incorrect. I don't have the info at my fingertips, but the leases are a lot longer than 5 years on those two
164 Post contains links and images 777ER : Heres some pictures from WLGs 50th birthday open day last Sunday NZ and NAC uniforms The expanded Duty Free area Near the QF international lounge extr
165 NZ107 : Very interesting, thanks for sharing the pics Jase. One thing that was brought up in the Auckland Airport AGM was the question of whether AIA will pr
166 VirginFlyer : Back at Airshow 92 (ah, what a fun event that was!), they did say it would be the last time Auckland Airport would be able to host such an event unti
167 Vhqpa : this went into effect Sunday 25 October. Prior to that BNE-WLG-BNE was DJ68/69 now it's DJ4068/4069 the Saturday BNE-CHC-BNE is also PBOZ operated. W
168 Kiwiandrew : Last time I checked AKL was not part of Australia , so I do not understand what relevance the ACCC decision would have for New Zealand-USA services ?
169 Cchan : New or old interior, it is still an A320. Taking into account there is competition from DJ and JQ, and most passengers aim for the cheapest, it may n
170 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ 'clinched half-price Airbus deal' - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...NZ-clinched-half-price-Airbus-deal
171 Post contains links NZdsgnr : "Qantas furious after Jetstar hit with Government safety charge" - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10607349
172 Post contains links Macilree : " target=_blank>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...07349 For the record here are links to the relevant documents on this issue: CAA consultation
173 Xiaotung : It is understood that Norm Thompson is flying to Japan to meet executives at Japan Airlines to review their codeshare agreement. Given the troubled st
174 Kiwiandrew : I am not sure if it is that simple . IIRC the Japan - New Zealand air services agreement actually specifies the carriers from each side - so , unless
175 Cchan : If JL stops buying seats on NZ because they can't sell them, I doubt if NH wants to.
176 NZ107 : And that could possibly make way for NZ reducing services, if needed, to Japan. If some flights can't be made profitable without the seat buying cont
177 ANstar : I had not seen the NZ site before. They are pushing NZ-South Africa and NZ-Phuket services. Connections from AKL for the JNB & HKT services are prett
178 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ takes the mickey out of two MPs - http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/3040...es-the-mickey-out-of-Hide-Harawira I saw the two ads on grab a seat to
179 Alangirvan : OK, so now Air NZ have finally chosen A320s what do we have to talk about for the next few years. I suppose the original Trans Tasman A320s will reach
180 Kiwiandrew : Easy - service entry dates for the 787-9s
181 Cchan : It is probably most cost effective for NZ to put an A320 on the couple of domestic routes when the need of a jet aircraft arises than to acquire a ne
182 TravellerPlus : Samba dancers? I could see some room for regional jets in the NZ network. The routes which are prime might be the longer domestic sectors, such as IV
183 Cchan : Cargo is probably important on these routes as well. RJs are not great in cargo capacity.
184 Zkpilot : Well if NZ gets A319s as part of the order then I'd say no to RJs, however if they don't then I'd say that replacing the ATRs with RJs would make sens
185 Alangirvan : I think if you are talking about CRJs, cargo capacity is nothing much, but Embraers, and presumably the Bombardier or Mitsubishi 100 seaters will be m
186 NZ107 : One thing's for sure - I'd love to be down in Dunedin to see that one land there! And especially turning around at the end of the runway..
187 DavidByrne : I agree - the difference in capacity and capability between the ATR (at 68 seats) and an A320 at 171 seats seriously reduces the airline's flexibilit
188 SunriseValley : Unrestricted to where? The tables suggest it would be limited to a TOW of about 85t . Assuming 185 seats (8,42,135) the still air range would be abou
189 Alangirvan : Well AirNZ Trans Tasman services out of WLG are the most important ones, so full payload ex WLG to SYD/MEL and BNE or OOL for starters. Anything a cur
190 Alangirvan : This would be like the day in 1987 when a Qantas 747-300 diverted into Canberra Airport, and the airport only just coped. The local TV station played
191 Aerokiwi : I find it intriguing that everyone assumes that there is a significant market to warrant nonstop services between Wellington and Canberra. I recently
192 Koruman : The decision of V Australia to now buy the 777-200LR instead of waiting for the 787-9 to fly PER-LHR non-stop really highlights two extremely bad stra
193 Mr Airnz : Althought it may seem like only yesterday, one must remember Air New Zealand had the first few members of its 777-200ER fleet introduced before the 7
194 DavidByrne : Yes, it's been a very cautious NZ management as far as such ideas are concerned. But I do wonder about the economics of ULH routes. I recall earlier
195 Alangirvan : Good luck to V Australia. I think the economics of an Ultra Long Haul plane out of PER will be interesting I think any airline would want to sell more
196 TravellerPlus : It doesn't have to be a daily service to be warranted. A considered service would suit the business travellers wanting to head straight to/from Canbe
197 777ER : IIRC the A320 operates to NLK due to its freight to service the local requirments. How would an ATR with far less freight capicity match the A320 fre
198 Post contains links Axio : PMR is very proud of the day it handled at 767 diversion: http://www.pnairport.co.nz/aircraft_photo.php?selection=14. 10 March 2003: The first Boeing
199 Mariner : Have they actually made that decision? I read the one article about it posted in a thread here, but I read it with a wary eye. When I saw that Mr. Go
200 Koruman : To be honest, it barely even counts as ULH: it comes in at 14,499 km compared with the universally accepted LHR-SIN sector at 10,888 km. In terms of
201 Alangirvan : One thing that NZ people may not have picked up is a change to the way that Qantas will be operating the LAX-JFK return sector. Starting with Northern
202 ZKOJH : Air New Zealand S10 operation to Osaka As per GDS timetable display on 06NOV09, Air New Zealand adjusting service to Osaka from 01DEC09. Service is op
203 Kiwiandrew : So the SYD-LAX-JFK service is discontinued ? or QF are going double daily to JFK ? It seems surprising if they are downsizing the equipment into JFK
204 NZ107 : Very interesting! The 77L's performance is still better than the 77E so it doesn't necessarily have to operate the ULH if it becomes a loss maker. IM
205 Travelhound : I thought Air New Zealand had the 200ER's on short-term leases ......... and it was their intention to replace them with the 787-9's. The 200ER's wer
206 777ER : Operating a WLG-CBR-WLG service on Mondays and Fridays not only serves the corporate/business sector but also serves the leisure market with customer
207 NZ107 : Oh yeah, never thought of that one! Let's suggest something along the lines of leaving WLG at 7:30-8am on Mondays, arriving in CBR at about 8:30/9am
208 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealand Aviation Thread #65 (by 777ER Nov 7 2009 in Civil Aviation)
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