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JetBlue Increases BOS-BWI  
User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

An increase from 4x to 5x, in response to WN's increase from 5x to 7x.

The interesting thing about this is that a seemingly non-story got a press release from JetBlue:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/JetBlu...es-prnews-3735545371.html?x=0&.v=1

Should we also expect to see a press release for the second BOS-DEN frequency being added? Hmmmm.

JetBluefan1


Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

The new flight isn't being added until March 1; the press release is probably just a way to get free early advertising for the route, complete with swipe at WN.

AirTran is currently holding at 8x daily. The press release listing at their website doesn't show any announcements of increased flights. So they still have the most nonstops on the route; probably no need to increase flights in response. I can't imagine too many months will pass before we see who blinks first. 19x, and 20x as of March 1, mainline (assuming 100-seat E190 is counted as mainline) is probably too much for the route.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineAv8tor From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI, that's why an extra flight was added

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

This is about as obvious as competitive reactions get. B6 changed frequency in 20 markets a few weeks ago and never press released most of them, but this gets a release. They are just rubbing it in WN's face. FL must be crying. The countdown clock for their exit is ticking.

The real question is why does B6 want to fight WN so hard? Do they really think WN will leave them alone? Seems unlikely to me. I guess they figure that with F9/YX/VX to deal with that B6 can push WN toward greener pastures. Isn't working, though.

Let's hope this doesn't get too destructive. Most people think ATL is the next WN station. I wonder if B6 is trying to influence that decision away from JFK.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

I have to admit, even as a WN Employee I DO LUV the stab at WN for their advertisements..

"Customers in Baltimore have discovered what those in Boston have known for years: JetBlue offers more than just an unassigned seat and a handful of peanuts to their destination," said Scott Laurence, vice president of network planning for JetBlue Airways. "With five straight J.D. Power awards received for our customer service, we also provide our customers with lots of legroom, unlimited free snacks and drinks and pre-assigned leather seats on brand new airplanes -- all at the cost of your airfare. In addition, JetBlue flights offer 36 channels of DirecTV programming and more than 100 channels of XM Satellite radio on personal seatback screens. Check out the live TV -- it's on, it's always on, and it's free!"

This however...On September 9, JetBlue launched new service to Baltimore with four daily flights to complement its existing six daily flights between Boston and Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD)....Why did jetblue wait until WN announced BWI-BOS for B6 to start it up if truly was to complement the IAD service?  Wink

Good Luck to B6, FL and WN! Quite a lot of seats on this route!

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4451 times:



Quoting Av8tor (Reply 2):
Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI, that's why an extra flight was added

given the fares they're all advertising, I can believe good loads. But I'm surprised anybody can get good yields out of this, with those fares and this much capacity between the three of them.

If only that kind of data were published, so we could see.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4377 times:



Quoting DCA-ROCguy" class=quote target=_blank>DCA-ROCguy (Reply 1):
AirTran is currently holding at 8x daily. The press release listing at their website doesn't show any announcements of increased flights.

FL goes back up to 9x daily in the Spring.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
FL must be crying. The countdown clock for their exit is ticking.

You may be right, but I think FL will try to stick this one out for a while. And while it may not be a particularly profitable strategy, I think there's a good chance all three will stay on the route.

In fact, one ancillary victim may be DL down at DCA. With DL's position at both BOS and DCA weakening, I wouldn't be totally surprised if DL finally throws in the towel on BOS-DCA. DL's already making a big cut on DCA-BOS, by downgrading many flights from E175/CR9's to CRJ's.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
Do they really think WN will leave them alone?

I think they want WN to know that they aren't afraid of WN. And if enough of the LCC's push back on WN (F9 at DEN, B6 at BOS, FL at BWI), it may start to diminish WN's bottomline a bit.


User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4366 times:



Quoting Av8tor (Reply 2):
Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI, that's why an extra flight was added



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 5):

given the fares they're all advertising, I can believe good loads. But I'm surprised anybody can get good yields out of this, with those fares and this much capacity between the three of them.

Fares start at $39 o/w - not good. But walk-up fares are significantly higher, and JetBlue's highest fare ranges from $234-$314 on this route. From what I've observed, JetBlue has done a good job of capturing walk-up and day-of-purchase on this route - similar to their BOS-JFK/IAD flights. Loads are also very, very high.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
Let's hope this doesn't get too destructive. Most people think ATL is the next WN station. I wonder if B6 is trying to influence that decision away from JFK.

I don't think B6 is concerned about WN @ JFK - there aren't any slots left. But I do think that B6 sees WN as a threat at BOS - which has turned into a significant operation for B6. I think JetBlue will do whatever it can to let WN know that they are not happy with their presence at BOS. I too am hoping this doesn't get too destructive, but I don't think that flying a few flights a day on this 500-mile route is going to kill anyone.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17787 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4293 times:



Quoting Av8tor (Reply 2):
Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI,

No way. Loads might be ok. Yields are probably embarassing.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
FL must be crying. The countdown clock for their exit is ticking.

I'm not so sure. They're the one carrier of the three with sizable operations in both markets. There's more reason to be an FL frequent flyer living in BOS and/or BWI than B6 in BWI or WN in BOS.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4214 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):

Quoting Av8tor (Reply 2):
Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI,

No way. Loads might be ok. Yields are probably embarassing.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
FL must be crying. The countdown clock for their exit is ticking.

I'm not so sure. They're the one carrier of the three with sizable operations in both markets. There's more reason to be an FL frequent flyer living in BOS and/or BWI than B6 in BWI or WN in BOS.

One thing not to be overlooked is that FL offers business class and wifi on their BOS-BWI runs. This is something they are heavily advertising in the Boston area. If I am a business traveler, I would opt for FL as they have the most flights and wifi.


User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4180 times:

Probably over-serving this market.

BWI is rather far for most people in the DC region, and this route is heavily O&D for B6 and FL. (if you wanna connect anywhere on B6, probably JFK is cheaper).

And on top of that, we're talking AA's station at BOS, UA at IAD, and DL/US at LGA all competing on the larger Boston-DC route.

question becomes : are they doing this to grab market share or kill competition ?


User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4136 times:



Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 10):
BWI is rather far for most people in the DC region,

so are IAD and DCA. They're each convenient for a good chuck of people, and inconvenient for the rest. I wonder how those numbers break down. surely somebody here has done those numbers.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be totally surprised if DL finally throws in the towel on BOS-DCA

I would be surprised, but it's an interesting thought.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4108 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):

You may be right, but I think FL will try to stick this one out for a while. And while it may not be a particularly profitable strategy, I think there's a good chance all three will stay on the route.

They probably will stick for a while, but ultimately they will lose. They are smaller than WN in BWI and smaller than B6 in BOS.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be totally surprised if DL finally throws in the towel on BOS-DCA.

I don't think DCA has traditionally been severely impacted by BWI. I'm sure it is hurting, but not more than 10-15% I bet.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
And if enough of the LCC's push back on WN (F9 at DEN, B6 at BOS, FL at BWI), it may start to diminish WN's bottomline a bit.

That has already happened. WN is losing money. It doesn't seem to be stopping them in DEN.

Quoting Jetbluefan1 (Reply 7):

I don't think B6 is concerned about WN @ JFK - there aren't any slots left.

There will be plenty left because DL has already shrunk and is expected to shift a bunch of flights to LGA when the US-DL deal is completed.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
There's more reason to be an FL frequent flyer living in BOS and/or BWI than B6 in BWI or WN in BOS.

People don't live in two cities. If you live in BWI then WN is vastly bigger and virtually everybody who travels frequently will be neck deep in their program. In BOS it's not as clear, but certainly B6 is bigger than FL. Chances are that virtually nobody is "vested" in FL's program in BOS. The are too small there and cater too little to business passengers in terms of their network. A very heavy % of their BOS passengers are headed to Florida. Those people don't tend to be loyal. BOS is basically a spoke for FL and a focus city for B6. WN is going to be bigger in BOS than FL shortly, if not already...


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4080 times:



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 11):
so are IAD and DCA. They're each convenient for a good chuck of people, and inconvenient for the rest. I wonder how those numbers break down. surely somebody here has done those numbers.

If you want to talk about D.C. specifically - not Baltimore - DCA is head and shoulders above either IAD or BWI. It's the most convenient airport to all of the District, a good chunk of Fairfax County, some of Prince George's County, and much of Montgomery County.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6312 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4068 times:



Quoting Av8tor (Reply 2):
Loads and yields are doing amazing on BOS-BWI, that's why an extra flight was added

This far out from start....sure they are  wink 



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4046 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 12):
They probably will stick for a while, but ultimately they will lose.

But maybe FL will take the losses and keep the route in order to support overall expansion at BWI. FL has said they intend to grow BWI further and keeping BOS around is likely part of that...even if it loses money.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 12):
There will be plenty left because DL has already shrunk and is expected to shift a bunch of flights to LGA when the US-DL deal is completed.

Who is expecting this other than you? I can guarantee you DL won't be giving up any meaningful number of slots at JFK. Don't misinterpret short-term cuts (due to the economy) with long-term plans.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 12):
WN is losing money. It doesn't seem to be stopping them in DEN.

True, but if F9 is profitable and WN is not profitable in DEN, then who is really winning?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17787 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3963 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 12):
People don't live in two cities.

No kidding. But FL in BWI is about the same size as B6 in BOS in terms of departures, and currently WN in BOS and B6 in BWI are nobodies, unless frequent flyers are shifting their business from MHT/PVD to BOS. FL's presence in BOS is not big, but it's still 6x bigger than B6's presence in BWI or twice as big as WN's presence in BOS, with a lot more destinations. Add in inflight amenities, business class, and probably the lowest costs in the market, and it's not a foregone conclusion that FL is the first out of BOSBWI.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

Does B6 have any plans to expand at BWI or is BOS going to be it for a while?

User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3741 times:



Quoting COEWRNJ (Reply 17):
Does B6 have any plans to expand at BWI or is BOS going to be it for a while?

This is a great question. In my opinion, I don't think there are many opportunities outside of BOS.

Two or three flights to JFK would be good for connecting passengers, but this would be mostly low yielding traffic. JetBlue hasn't exactly been successful on IAD-JFK (which started at 6x and is now at 3x).

FLL and MCO have plenty of competition from FL and WN, and are low yielding by default. I do think that a daily flight to FLL or MCO would be good, however, for connecting traffic to destinations such as CUN, SJU, BQN, PCE, SDQ, NAS, BOG, SJO and MBJ (and any other destinations to be added from FLL and MCO in the future). A daily flight to each, timed primarily for connections, could be a good move.

Flights to the West Coast from BWI seem to be rather thin, or are otherwise served by WN (though those may have been cut). But JetBlue's focus hasn't necessarily been on transcon routes lately, so I don't see flights to LGB/LAX/SFO/OAK happening. More money to be made in other places.

On that note, B6 has only one gate at BWI. Keeping space open for additional BOS frequencies may be the best strategy right now.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3702 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
But FL in BWI is about the same size as B6 in BOS in terms of departures, and currently WN in BOS and B6 in BWI are nobodies, unless frequent flyers are shifting their business from MHT/PVD to BOS. FL's presence in BOS is not big, but it's still 6x bigger than B6's presence in BWI or twice as big as WN's presence in BOS, with a lot more destinations. Add in inflight amenities, business class, and probably the lowest costs in the market, and it's not a foregone conclusion that FL is the first out of BOSBWI.

The stars must be in alignment because I basically agree with you.

I think B6 is actually in the weakest position here. We all know that WN is the 800lb gorilla and they have more flights from BWI than anybody. For them, its not like they are going into BOS as a cold market - everybody knows WN thanks to their big-budget national ad campaign and their product is well known to the area thanks to MHT and PVD. What they offer is a ton of connection possibilities and, if the price is right, they're sure to steal some sales from the direct flights offered by their competitors.

FL also offers a ton of connections from BWI (I was surprised to see they are as big in BWI as Jetblue is in BOS) and they'll be OK. Sure, they have backed down from Jetblue in other markets (HPN and SWF come to mind) but I think they'll do what it takes to hold down the BWI-BOS route.

What does Jetblue offer? Yes, I think their product is probably better than either FL or WN, and they certainly have a big presence in BOS already. So logic says they'll might win the O&D crowd over, but let's be honest, is that what everybody is after here? There are clearly a lot more flights on this route than the O&D passengers need. What B6 cannot offer that WN and FL do is reasonable connecting flights. Besides a few Caribbean destinations, is anybody really going to fly on B6 from BWI to BOS and on to Florida? Or the West Coast? Unless price really became a factor, why would anybody do that when at least two other airlines will get you from BWI to Florida and the West Coast with either direct service or a more reasonable connection?

The one benefit I see Jetblue having, besides my aforementioned opinion that the in-flight service and product is better, is that they are flying this route with E190 aircraft. That means they will undoubtedly lose less money per flight than FL with the B717s and WN with the heavy B737s.

It's definitely a battlefield and one worth watching. Who will blink first?



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23225 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3643 times:



Quoting Jetbluefan1 (Reply 18):
This is a great question. In my opinion, I don't think there are many opportunities outside of BOS.

Agreed. I took a look at the largest markets ex-BWI, and the only one that interested me a little bit was ORD. The advantage of ORD is that they won't have to deal with WN, though WN obviously flies many daily flights to MDW. If B6 threw two 190s on the route, they'd have more seats than AA, and they seem to do all right competing with a number of carriers on their other routes ex-ORD.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3554 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
If B6 threw two 190s on the route, they'd have more seats than AA, and they seem to do all right competing with a number of carriers on their other routes ex-ORD.

Very interesting. But the problem I see here is that B6 has virtually no following in neither BWI nor CHI. Most B6 ORD customers are likely NYC/BOS/LA-based, and most B6 BWI customers are likely BOS-based. Flying from ORD to BWI - while it makes sense theoretically - would not make sense for B6 unless they managed to build up a more loyal following in one (or both) of those markets.

On the flip side, the amount of buzz surrounding the BOS-BWI "war" must certainly have turned some heads in the Baltimore area. Perhaps this "free press" is actually getting B6 noticed by locals. Hmmmm.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineBOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

If you're a road warrior/day tripper on the Boston-Washington routes -- and there are many such folks, given the traffic figures -- each of the three LCCs on the BOS-BWI route has an advantage for some travellers:

- If you're based near BOS and you need to go to both BWI and IAD frequently to hit more suburban offices, jetBlue is the one carrier that flies to both.

- If you live in the northern or southern Boston suburbs, work near Boston and need to go to Maryland, Southwest can take you from both BOS and whichever of MHT or PVD is closest to your home to BWI.

- If you actually want to get up at a reasonable hour, drive to BOS, fly to BWI, get some work done, fly back and get home at a reasonable hour, AirTran is the carrier to go with. Even with the frequency increases, neither Southwest nor jetBlue has any BOS-BWI flights between 6:35 and 10:40am, or any BWI-BOS flights between 5:45 and 8:50pm. I much prefer the flexibility of flights spaced throughout the day for day trips.

On the other hand, if you are daytripping to Arlington or the District, I'm sure you have the money for Shuttle tickets. Speaking of which,

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
In fact, one ancillary victim may be DL down at DCA. With DL's position at both BOS and DCA weakening, I wouldn't be totally surprised if DL finally throws in the towel on BOS-DCA. DL's already making a big cut on DCA-BOS, by downgrading many flights from E175/CR9's to CRJ's.

Given Delta and US Airways' pending swap of LGA and DCA, Delta will have few operations at DCA. I would imagine that Delta still makes money from BOS-DCA, but the downgauging of aircraft implies they aren't finding as many passengers they used to. Once Delta refocuses on LGA, they may switch to all 50-seaters -- but such service has been retained by American for years. I think they'll stay.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Are we going to see JFK-BWI ever when jetBlue ever going to get JFK-DCA slots


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2744 times:



Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 23):
Are we going to see JFK-BWI ever when jetBlue ever going to get JFK-DCA slots

I think JFK-DCA is a much more crucial market than JFK-BWI. As I said before, a couple of flights to JFK would be ideal for connecting traffic, but wouldn't do much for the tiny O&D in this market.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
25 Enilria : Sure. I just don't see FL being strong enough to be other than the third banana unless B6 fails in developing their BOS "hub". Absent that happening,
26 Tharanga : No, I don't want to talk about DC specifically, I want to talk about all people in all three catchment areas. Take all those people, and BWI has to b
27 Cubsrule : I think that's right. Let's do a quick and dirty estimate... D.C. population - 592,000 (all DCA) Montgomery County - 951,000 (probably 60-70% DCA, th
28 MaverickM11 : You fly on the carrier with the best schedule for your needs, probably considering their product. And seeing as FL is #2 of the three carriers in BOS
29 Tharanga : very nicely done; i won't quibble too much but somebody else might. so BWI has a nice catchment zone. but i'll guess the highest yields will always b
30 Cubsrule : It does. I think people often forget that Baltimore is a decent-sized city on its own. It's not Philly or Washington, but it's much more than Harrisb
31 Ptugarin : Does B6 codeshare with LH on BWI - BOS? This code work as a TATL feeder.
32 BOStonsox : No, but BWI fits in as part of the EI deal. And since EI once served BWI, there is a sizable Irish market down there so they could probably get a few
33 Jetbluefan1 : Good point. After thinking about it further, I think it may make sense to launch BWI-JFK, even if just 2x, specifically to connect to LH and EI fligh
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