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Surprise: Embraer Flight Testing New Business Jet  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3575 times:



Quote:
What's the opposite of announcing a new airplane program, then repeatedly delaying first flight? How about keeping mum about a new plane until it has been flying for a month.

That's just what Brazil's Embraer has done, announcing Monday that it is already flight testing its new Legacy 650 business jet.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/...rchives/182500.asp?from=blog_last3

http://www.embraer.com/english/conte...press_releases_detalhe.asp?id=2697

It's more of an upgrade than an all new plane, of course. New engines, new avionics, and more sound insulation (something a Legacy pilot on this board had recommended Embraer do before).

Hope this means many more plane orders in the future!


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDreamsUnited From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quite a snappy looking aircraft.

Hope to see much more of it in the future.

-DreamsUnited



Do not abort a takeoff because a cockpit window pops open!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Kind of reminds me of a Gulfstream. Still is a very nice looking airplane!


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineJambrain From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Most manufactures would be making quite a big noise about a 10% better fuel efficiency from a new engine / airframe, 500nm better range from RR and Embraer Big grin

Quote:

It is 10 percent more efficient than the AE 3007A1E that powers the Legacy 600

http://www.ainonline.com/news/single...a2-provides-muscle-for-legacy-650/



Jambrain
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13134 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2897 times:
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Quoting Jambrain (Reply 3):
Most manufactures would be making quite a big noise about a 10% better fuel efficiency from a new engine / airframe

I'm shocked at the claims... A new fan cannot provide that much of a cut in fuel burn. How do they get a 90% commonality with the old AE core and a 10% drop in fuel burn? I'm missing something in the math... that's often marketing. Unless... wing/winglet improvements allow a higher cruise altitude? Even for part of the cruise, that helps cut fuel burn.

Good news for Embraer. Very quite on a major improvement!  bigthumbsup 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJambrain From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2653 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 4):
Unless... wing/winglet improvements allow a higher cruise altitude?

increasing total fuel load by 1,160kg (2,558lb) to 9,402kg,
the Legacy 650 will deliver 7,220km (3,900nm) range, an increase of 925km

that looks like 14.0% more fuel for 14.7% more range from
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...09-embraer-joins-the-650-club.html

Basic Operating Weight from 13,675 to 14,190kg i.e up 3.8%
http://www.embraerexecutivejets.com/...ent/aircraft/legacy650_weights.asp

From Breguet Range Equation assuming air speed unchanged

Range = V.(L / D) / (g.SFC) x ln (Winitial / Wfinal)

if my maths hasn't gone astray that means 650 / AE3007 A2 has 6% better SFC and or L/D then 600 / AE3007 A1

looks to me like Kirby J. Harrison exaggerates slightly when he says engine is 10% more "efficient"

I'm sure Widebodyphotog or LAXDESI or PM can run the numbers to check my work (or of course yourself Lightsaber)

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...gacy-650/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk



Jambrain
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13134 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2470 times:
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Quoting Jambrain (Reply 5):
looks to me like Kirby J. Harrison exaggerates slightly when he says engine is 10% more "efficient"

Thank you for looking into the details. 6% is still excellent.

I always liked the 600. The 650 is more of the plane it should be (from a range perspective).

Quoting Jambrain (Reply 5):
that looks like 14.0% more fuel for 14.7% more range from

Ok, I was confused on where they were putting all that fuel until I saw the photo in your first link.  faint  That new ventral fuel tank is HUGE (judging by the pregnant guppy belly the plane now has).

"To boost range, Embraer installed a new underbelly ventral fuel tank and created more fuel storage in the central wing box, increasing total fuel load by 1,160kg (2,558lb) to 9,402kg. The fuel system has been redesigned with electrically actuated valves from hydraulically actuated valves on the 600."

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
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