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US Airlines To Indonesia: Past, Present And Future  
User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

Just sitting in the Singapore Airlines lounge in CGK and started wondering about US airlines that have flown, currently fly or may one day fly to Indonesia. I'm thinking of Jakarta specifically, but I know it is also likely that US airlines could have flown to Bali. I seem to recall the NW had a NRT-DPS route ages ago, but I don't think it still exists. Did any US airlines ever fly to Jakarta or elsewhere in Indonesia?

No US carriers currently fly to CGK - with Indonesia's economic growth and (relative) political stability, do you think it's possible that a US airline will start flying to Jakarta in the near future?

Thanks!


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12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4195 times:
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Quoting 777law (Thread starter):
Did any US airlines ever fly to Jakarta or elsewhere in Indonesia?

PA did at one point - they crashed a 707 at DPS back in 1974 ( IIRC that was one of a series of crashes where PA destroyed 3 707s in a little over a year )

http://www.panamair.org/accidents/climax.htm

Edited to add :

This map , apparently from the 1950s , seems to show a Pan Am SIN-JKT sector . So it seems that PA served both JKT and DPS over the years .

[Edited 2009-10-20 04:33:03 by kiwiandrew]


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User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4182 times:
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Continental used to fly to DPS from GUM , IIRC , it was dropped within the last couple of years.

Edited to add :

According to this link the service was dropped just over a year ago

http://jgpo-guam-cmtf.blogspot.com/2...tal-micronesia-to-cut-flights.html

...The airline also announced it would end non-stop Guam-Hong Kong service on July 28, and Guam-Denpasar, Bali service on October 2, 2008....

[Edited 2009-10-20 04:35:56 by kiwiandrew]


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User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

PA also flew SYD-JKT-BKK in the late 1960s/early 1970s

Gemuser



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User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

NW had approval to start JKT from NRT/DTW in the late 1990s but it was canceled at the last minute....not sure if it was security concerns, lack of interest or both.

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3897 times:



Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
NW had approval to start JKT from NRT/DTW in the late 1990s but it was canceled at the last minute....not sure if it was security concerns, lack of interest or both.

According to NWA executives, it was shelved mostly because of the 1998 Asian financial crisis. That alone was the beginning of the end of heavy ops at KIX by NWA.



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User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3897 times:



Quoting 777law (Thread starter):
I seem to recall the NW had a NRT-DPS route ages ago, but I don't think it still exists. Did any US airlines ever fly to Jakarta or elsewhere in Indonesia?

NW has never served DPS. They served KUL, however from 1986 to 1998. See above post for reasoning on both.



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User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3729 times:

Interesting stuff. Thanks all!

I figured that PA must have served JKT at some point and was interested in the routing. The SYD-JKT-BKK routing is the most interesting I've seen in a while. I assume UA picked up the rights to JKT / CGK and DPS when it purchased PA's Pacific routes, right? Has UA ever expressed an interest in flying to Indonesia? I would think a HKG-CGK route could be at least as successful as a HKG-SGN route.

I was also wondering whether any US airlines tried Indonesia in the mid-90's, before the financial crisis, when the country was one of the "Tiger Economies" of SE Asia. If NW shelved a CGK/JKT route in 1998, it may have had as much to do with the financial crisis as the fall Suharto and the resulting instability.



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User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1866 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

777law...I am sorry to disappoint you, but I doubt you will ever see a U.S. carrier ever serve Indonesia again (with exception of CO resuming a intra-Pacific service). Geographically, it is just too far from the U.S. to make economic sense. One has to realize that what may have worked 10 years ago, maybe cost prohibitive today. The cost of flying any a/c from Point A to Point B has risen just enough in the past decade to make many routes obsolete. A visit to many second and third tier U.S. airports has solidified this theory. You can blame security/9-11 fees, higher airport fees, fuel, insurance, etc., etc. The cost to operate a 19 or 29 seat aircraft is practically no longer feasible and the 50 seat plane is becoming marginal. While you may thinking "What does this have to do with flying to Indonesia?", it is significant. Everything is relative. As the "lower end" of this scale becomes obsolete, it does affect the bigger picture like a flight to Indonesia. Everything is relative in relation to costs. The yield realized on such a long trip to Indonesia w/ a U.S. carrier is far better served with a code share agreement with an Asia carrier.

Maybe hard to grasp, but that fuel thirsty 150 seat Pan Am 707 burning with "4 holes" 40 years ago had better yields than today's fuel efficient 777-300 with 350 seats.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3595 times:
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Quoting Crownvic (Reply 8):
Maybe hard to grasp, but that fuel thirsty 150 seat Pan Am 707 burning with "4 holes" 40 years ago had better yields than today's fuel efficient 777-300 with 350 seats.

Exactly , if you could translate the airfares from those days into current pricing I would almost guarantee that they would be exorbitant by todays standards .



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User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5234 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3583 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Exactly , if you could translate the airfares from those days into current pricing I would almost guarantee that they would be exorbitant by todays standards .

 checkmark   checkmark  Paying $1000 for a flight in 1969 is like paying nearly $5900 today.



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User currently offlineSierraAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3581 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Exactly , if you could translate the airfares from those days into current pricing I would almost guarantee that they would be exorbitant by todays standards .

You can say that again.

A one-way coach flight from Los Angeles to Singapore on Pan Am in 1958 cost $616. Roundtrip was $1,109. With inflation, that's $4,571 and $8,229 respectively.

Compare that to a present day roundtrip flight on Singapore Airlines at $1,246


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 916 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

I have a PAA timetable dated Apr/May 69 showing inbound from SIN to JKT Flt 841 arriving Mon 1420 dep Flt 842 outbound to SIN Tue 0700 (back the way it came). Flt 811 Inbound from SYD arriving JKT Fri 1415 and dep for HKG 1500. Flt 812 inbound from HKG arriving JKT Sat 2215 and dep for SYD 2300.

PAA timetable Dec 20 1975 shows Flt 811 SYD/JKT/HKG Tu,Thu,Sun and vice versa 812 Mon, Wed, Fri. It also shows Flt 811 SYD/DPS/HKG Sat and vice versa on Sun. SIN/JKT service seems to have been discontinued, at least over Dec75/Jan 76.

Cheers



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