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DL Summer 2010 International Schedule Released  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7670 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 35645 times:

Hearing DL will make a major announcement today or tomorrow. Don't know the details.

The timing of this coming out this morning indicates it may be a schedule update...

Delta cutting 1 Pittsburgh-to-Paris flight weekly
The Associated Press
PITTSBURGH - Delta Air Lines has cut one of five weekly nonstop flights from Pittsburgh International Airport to Paris because of a drop in global demand for flights.

Delta spokesman Ken Landers says the airline hopes to restore the fifth flight in June.


298 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineAirbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35626 times:

I know they are supposed to announce Q3 results on Thursday.

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35453 times:

Could be another one of their normal route deferrals  duck 

User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35372 times:

Could it have to do with the LGA slots they're getting?

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35218 times:
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This isn't surprising. I'm surprised this flight doesn't go seasonal. How much of a demand is there for PIT-CDG even with a 75W?

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35113 times:

After AA's dehubbing of STL, I smell DL dehubbing CVG in 3... 2... 1...  airplane 

"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineRjnut From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35083 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
I smell DL dehubbing CVG in 3... 2... 1...

Dont forget MEM!!! 10..9..8..

I it will be just like when i was growing up ..you went thru ORD or ATL..that was it!

User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35035 times:

Maybe something to do with JL?

User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1758 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 35005 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):
Could it have to do with the LGA slots they're getting?

This was my first thought. If they're about to release their next schedules, they may now have schedules in place regarding the LGA operation and could announce the full scope of their service there. While US immediately announced cities it planned to serve with its new DCA slots, I think DL has kept their plans for LGA under wraps.

User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 34980 times:

Actually a bit tragic. A lot of those midwest industrial towns are already dying a slow death, and a major airline hub is really their lifeline.

St Louis, Pittsburg, Cincinnati.... and if CO/UA, Cleveland

Once the dehubbing process is complete, midwest will be finished. The space between Chicago and BOS-NYC-WAS will practically become a vacuum.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
After AA's dehubbing of STL, I smell DL dehubbing CVG in 3... 2... 1... airplane

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 34912 times:

Quoting Steex (Reply 8):
While US immediately announced cities it planned to serve with its new DCA slots, I think DL has kept their plans for LGA under wraps.

You are correct that DL did not announce cities for LGA. All DL said was that they were going to announce "over a dozen new cities, none of them currently served by US Airways out of LGA".

Still, I'm wondering if FWA, SBN, or maybe TOL will be one of them? FWA would be nice, and I could see SBN getting LGA, too, with the SCASD money left over from the JetAmerica fiasco. I doubt if TOL will be one of the new cities given their animosity toward existing carriers in general, but with all their money, who knows...

Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):
St Louis, Pittsburg, Cincinnati.... and if CO/UA, Cleveland

Once the dehubbing process is complete, midwest will be finished. The space between Chicago and BOS-NYC-WAS will practically become a vacuum.

There's still the very profitable DL fortress hub at DTW. Despite the auto industry troubles, it ain't going anywhere.

"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 34844 times:

Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 9):

Actually a bit tragic. A lot of those midwest industrial towns are already dying a slow death, and a major airline hub is really their lifeline.

St Louis, Pittsburg, Cincinnati.... and if CO/UA, Cleveland

Once the dehubbing process is complete, midwest will be finished. The space between Chicago and BOS-NYC-WAS will practically become a vacuum.

I agree. As much as I'm sick of DL high fares here in Cincinnati, I'd miss not being considered a hub. Cincinnati has a beautiful airport. Now when DL does pulls out, will other airlines located in terminal 2 be able to consolidate, or does DL have a lock on Concource A and B?

BTW, anyone see the article about the slow demise of Comair in the Cincinnati Enquirer?


User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 34704 times:

Today the announcement that Delta is the
Official Air Line of Madison Square Garden?

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 34536 times:

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):
This isn't surprising. I'm surprised this flight doesn't go seasonal. How much of a demand is there for PIT-CDG even with a 75W?

Actually, it's done very well. Not surprising they're dropping one weekly flight for the off-season, though.

It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 34302 times:

Also they're changing the NW flight numbers starting with Saturday (for intl flights).

User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 819 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 34244 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

In looking at the Delta flight schedule program you can download on your PC it looks like SDF is going to be losing flights to MEM sometime in January 2010. Could the dehubbing be at MEM as well?


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 33689 times:

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 12):
Today the announcement that Delta is the
Official Air Line of Madison Square Garden?

More wasted money... they talked about how they needed to curve spending on marketing and advertising... yet they go and do this?

"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 33344 times:

Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 15):
In looking at the Delta flight schedule program you can download on your PC it looks like SDF is going to be losing flights to MEM sometime in January 2010. Could the dehubbing be at MEM as well?

IMHO I don't think MEM will be de-hubbed anytime soon. Some new flights like MEM-PBI are showing up loaded and for sale. Routings through MEM are a nice alternative to having to deal with ATL.

As for CVG, well....... tick tock.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4762 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 33084 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 16):
More wasted money... they talked about how they needed to curve spending on marketing and advertising... yet they go and do this?


Not necessarily wasted money as you still need to continue to drive awareness and more importantly preference among 1) your strategic target and 2) strategic markets.

They *just* may have cut back on overall advertising spend while making the right choice to focus more on NYC.

It makes sense from a business perspective and if I were DL, I would be doing the same thing.

Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7670 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 32746 times:

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 12):
Today the announcement that Delta is the
Official Air Line of Madison Square Garden?

If you look at last year in their press archive, they announced their 2009 international schedule plan about this time. Coupled with the article above about PIT-CDG, my guess is that it is the 2010 international schedule.

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 32628 times:

How about new West Coast China service? Possibly SEA-PEK?

User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 32185 times:

So basically we have confirmation that DTW is being turned into the US-Asia hub as has been rumored for a while now. Also, nice to see that PVG appears to be doing well enough to go daily. JFK-CPH and ARN definitely make sense with CO now out of SkyTeam.

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7670 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 32137 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 23):
JFK-CPH and ARN definitely make sense with CO now out of SkyTeam.

Seattle-Osaka really surprised me.

User currently offlineCrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 32069 times:

At least it wasn't any bad news for MSP.

User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 32153 times:

Quoting Enilria (Reply 24):
Seattle-Osaka really surprised me.

Indeed. NW has flown this route in the past plus US-Osaka flying hasn't been overly successful due in large part to the airports astronomical landing fees. We'll see how it works out for DL this time around.

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
25 FutureUScapt : Noticeably absent, though not surprising, is any announcement regarding the resumption of CVG-FRA or CVG-LGW flights.
26 Enilria : It doesn't really talk about what is being cut. Who knows... Japan in general has sucked lately. To fly that from a non-hub is surprising. The flags
27 OA412 : Like you said it's not surprising as those were permanent cancellations, not seasonal. I doubt you'll see DL resume these 2 flights in the foreseeabl
28 IliriBDL : Maybe with the help of Alaska Air providing connecting passengers it'll work.
29 Enilria : They say they will have more than 25 flights after the new flights. The old published schedule had 27 flights per day on average filed for next Summe
30 Enilria : I know, but it's not the same as it being their hub. AS is in how many different code share programs anyway?
31 IliriBDL : With 14 airlines as far as I can tell (including DL). SEA has a big Asian population though, I'm sure it'll work, I always wondered why SEA never had
32 Evan767 : Surprised to still see Delta pushing hard for Monrovia, Malabo, Luanda, and Nairobi. And.. wow, non-stop service ABV-ATL! No surprise to see ACC-ATL;
33 Luckyone : Never with anything as small as the 767 though.
34 CokePopper : I believe it says JFK-ABV not ATL
35 Panamair : It's nonstop ABV-JFK ATL-ARN is being replaced by JFK-ARN; ATL-CPH however has always done well even as a year-round service, and is staying (in addi
36 MogandoCI : whew...finally DTW-HKG.... rumored forever and finally coming online... although i'm surprised they've decided to launch it instead of waiting for the
37 Incitatus : All companies put the best spin they can onto a press release, but DL seems to have refined it to an art. If there is no new info on transatlantic fl
38 Steeler83 : I'm really not that surprised by it either, but there is quite a bit of demand, actually. I would imagine that at least half of the folks boarding th
39 EMB170 : But with this, will that mean that SK's and CO's EWR-ARN/OSL/CPH flights now be part of the Star Alliance JV as there will now be another carrier on
40 CokePopper : Thanks for that information. A question comes to mind. With the return of the 75E to international, do we have enough to continue with the Transcon s
41 Jrlander : As a Seattle resident, I would guess that this has less to do with these new routes than the Alaska hub AND the business in the Seattle area. Microso
42 OA412 : Indeed and I definitely think that the smaller equipment may be what helps this flight stick around this time.
43 LACA773 : This is what I was thinking as well since we have yet to hear what they are going to do with the slots they swapped with US. When will DL takeover th
44 OA412 : So unless I'm mistaken the only seasonal service that is not returning is JFK-LYS and ATL-ARN (being replaced by JFK-ARN). As I recall OTP was announ
45 LACA773 : I don't see JFK-BUD on the list? Didn't DL do well with it especially since MA dropped their transatlantic service from JFK & YYZ? I'd hate to see tha
46 Luckyone : JFK-BUD wasn't cut. It's still bookable.
47 Steex : I do find the reallocation of 744's in the press release noteworthy. It indicates that they will increase JFK-NRT and JFK-TLV both to the 744 for the
48 OA412 : Correct. BUD wasn't seasonally suspended just reduced from 5 to 3 weekly. Should be back up to 5 weekly for S10.
49 Panamair : Good point - for some reason JFK-LYS wasn't mentioned in the press release but it still shows available for booking starting March 28, 2010 (same tim
50 Incitatus : And EDI. I wonder if TXL will return to daily.
51 Seatback : Other than an incredible terminal in Detroit, how can Detroit sustain this kind of international focus? With its economy shot and O&D most likely at a
52 Post contains links Web : For those who are lost (like I was), the link to the release is: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=776
53 Luckyone : This may go without saying but Delta has domestic feed at JFK, whereas NW never did. Not to mention that almighty precious corporate contract which p
54 Post contains links Deltajets : maybe this is it? http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=776
55 OA412 : Was that announced as a seasonal suspension? I'm almost certain that it was announced as a permanent suspension.
56 Enilria : I'd like to think you are kidding, but probably aren't. What about LAX? They are spreading themselves too thin unless they are buying AS next. There
57 Incitatus : Ok. That is what I thought. That is hard to say. Many markets have already reduced frequency for 2010 vs 2009. I was pointing out that the press rele
58 LACA773 : Thanks for the update on JFK-BUD, Luckyone, OA412 & Panamair. I apreciate it. I had a feeling it was still around. I should've checked myself. The ca
59 MaverickM11 : It'll look a lot like ATLICN and ATLPVG but with an hour less cost (shorter), less competition (KE), and better connectivity to the Northeast. There'
60 Panamair : The only way I see DL retaining the 75E transcons as well as the transatlantic ones for the summer is to use the NW 75Es as well - reconfigure them t
61 Travelin man : Here's the email I just got regarding DL's new/increased Summer Service: Region Route Effective* Aircraft Frequency Trans-Pacific Seattle to Beijing,
62 Steex : Yes, that is of course the case, and that happens all the time...what doesn't work for Airline X may work for Airline Y. I just think it's interestin
63 Bobnwa : Since the JV consists of AF/KL and DL/NW, comparing the trans-atlantic flights for those 4 airlines 2005 vs 2010 it is close to a doubling of service
64 RwSEA : Quite the expansion at SEA! PEK - Announced by NW, but suspended until 2010. I think DL has a good shot in the market - NW's data obviously indicated
65 CokePopper : Actually the JFK-TLV route could be viewed as an improvement. Both the 763 and the 744 don't have AVOD in Y class BUT the 744 has more room for passe
66 Travelin man : LAX has a tremendous amount of O&D, thus the position as a "hub" isn't as important. Also, DL has quite a number of corporate contracts, and this tra
67 Bobnwa : What corporate contracts does Delta have out of LAX that direct Pacific passengers to Delta ? None that I am aware of, but I could be wrong. If you a
68 NYCAdvantage : I guess if they pray enough they may get AVOD in Y and they may leave from terminal 4 at JFK.
69 Jetlanta : But what do you know about marketing compared to Burnsie? Delta's relationship with AS is much deeper and more significant than any other codeshare A
70 CokePopper : I wonder if we will see more domestic feed into SEA to support these new destinations? Say PHL/BWI/EWR/BOS ?
71 Hjulicher : Thanks, I was also very confused. All of a sudden all these statements were being made that made no sense. Now they do. I'm impressed with what Delta
72 DeltaMD90 : All they need to do now is buy AS (total joke by the way)
73 Jfk777 : Well, let the aircraft realinement begin. DTW is finaly being used to Asia as it should have with 777 service nonstop to HKG, PVG and ICN. SEA with 76
74 Frostbite : No surprise that DL is "connecting the dots" with respect to ATL-Accra. Seems like a logical place to grow. Interesting that DL is upgrading to equip
75 Travelin man : I was just at a corporate event for DL last week (I manage air contracts for a very large corporation). Trust me when I say DL has a number of large
76 Icna05e : Why SAL and not DKR? Seems indeed like it's th way DL is going but I don't get the point. Is DKR too far for 757? what are they using currently? At l
77 OA412 : If they're able to obtain more conveniently-timed slots, I wouldn't be surprised to see DL given SEA-LHR another go. Speaking of SEA, anyone think th
78 Worldtraveler : Looks like the 767s are flying the Pacific, DTW is going considerably more transpac service including ICN and HKG, and JFK is seeing more growth, incl
79 AlexInWa : Love the SEA increases,....................I said it would happen as did otheres. Where is SEA-HKG??? Guess we must wait for the 787? LET'S GO DELTA!!
80 Evan767 : If Delta wants to fly either ROB, SSG, or LAD from ATL, the service would need to be through SID because the return flight would be a stretch for the
81 DeltaL1011man : Didn't NW say they would start this or was it SEA-PVG? I cant remember. Is DTW-NGO still going or did they cut it? This is why JFK-FRA went 763 from
82 Viscount724 : ATL-DKR is about 300 nm further than the longest current transatlantic 757 nonstop. I doubt a 757 could operate that route with an economic payload.
83 NWA757300 : Not yet, anyway. AS is going to be our domestic feed in SEA
84 DeltaL1011man : Also the PR said DL will add ATL-NRT 3x weekly (777? or 744?) and SLC-NRT will be back. Where will DL park the 744s in JFK? I know T4B has 744 gates b
85 CokePopper : And now back to the 763 for this winter. Shouldn't be a problem with the 6am arrival from TLV into T3. However I have a feeling that it will be T4 fo
86 LACA773 : It's called over saturation in the JFK-LHR market. I believe DL is very happy with the two daily flights they currently have. I could see them try an
87 DeltaL1011man : wrong way. I meant to say thats why it went up to a 763 from a 75E. Maybe a slot issue. I believe DL will want to make ATL-LHR 2x daily before they a
88 OA412 : Shouldn't be a problem for DL. Don't forget that the extension to T3 was built by PA specifically to accommodate the 747. Over the years it has handl
89 LACA773 : I wondered about that myself, DeltaL1011man. It would make sense for them to offer two daily LHR flights from ATL like they used to offer to LGW. BTW
90 Enilria : I think we agree. DL has failed in LAX several times (WA merger and XJet prorate micro-hub)
91 Dw9115 : Pittsburg and Cincinnati are not a slow death PIT is actually turning around in has a large technology, medical and eduction industry now that most p
92 DeltaL1011man : Its 1x daily 763......I see it going to 764 in Nov though. I new they had 741/2/3 at T3 but didn't know SA had 744s there. Thanks for that. (even tho
93 Cubsrule : Would the AF LAX-LHR slot work? I can't remember the timing of that flight.
94 CokePopper : I don't think this was mentioned but MEM-AMS is going to the 763 and ATL-FCO will be scheduled on the A330
95 Post contains links and images OA412 : Yup. For the first few years, SA operated a 744 into JFK prior to switching to the A340. Here's a pic of the 744 at T3: View Large View MediumPhoto &
96 DeltaL1011man : 333? hahaha it doesn't look like everyone in that 744 can fit into T3.
97 Sectflyer : What are the chances of BDL getting back into the TATL mix next summer?
98 Indy : With the big rush to build and finish a belly cargo facility at IND by June I was thinking maybe DL was looking at IND-CDG or AMS.
99 CokePopper : Just said A330. I am sure there will be a separate announcement covering the many equipment swaps.
100 747fan : I'm pretty sure its currently 5X weekly 744's. Its a good performer at least when it come to LF - it had over 90% (92% DTW-NGO, 96% NGO-DTW) load fac
101 LACA773 : I believe KE & AF also brought their 74Xs into DL's JFK terminal for a period of time. What gates are 744 capable there now? Didn't they have to reco
102 Flyguy1 : Will JFK-FCO get an A330 again, plus the second flight next summer? I also noticed, JFK-MAD, and JFK-IST will be operated by the 767-400 next summer.
103 OA412 : I'm interested to see what DL does with ATH. Given the fact that OA is now out of the picture and the fact that they are now codesharing on DLs fligh
104 Incitatus : JFK is not seeing more growth. In Summer 2010 Delta will be flying fewer longhaul seats out of JFK than in Summer 2009. And it is a considerable redu
105 DeltaL1011man : Whats been cut? Outside of JFK-EDI everything is there or coming back. Did i miss something? Can the 333 make JFK-ATH? I thought DL was looking at up
106 Tommy767 : Would like to see this but with the AS codeshare DL seems to already has their work cut out for them. That is unless they feel that adding frequencie
107 IliriBDL : I'm hoping it happens.
108 SurfandSnow : WOW! Let's see here... SEA-PEK = NW evidently saw a need to fly this route nonstop (with virtually no feed from SEA, mind you) even when it already pr
109 OA412 : JFK-OTP and possibly JFK-LYS. LYS wasn't included among those seasonal cuts that are returning but, as Panamair mentioned, it is still bookable for n
110 CokePopper : Continues to be daily and continues to be full. I have no idea on yields though.
111 747fan : Some of it is likely from placing the several 763's that were stored at VCV back in service. I bet LIS is one of the top ones, I could see DL startin
112 MaverickM11 : However in the case of DTWHKG, the only real--potentially very expensive--longshot in this round, UA has a monopoly on a very large market size, wher
113 NWADTWFA : Someone correct me if I am wrong, but based on previous threads, I know that JFK-NRT on the 744 required 3 aircraft (one which sat on the ground for
114 Jetlanta : No. AS has it covered. Oh lord here we go again. The new DL is not the old DL. The new DL is a $30+ billion giant that has a completely different net
115 DeltaL1011man : Even then. 3 75E flights, JFK-FRA goes up, NRT/TLV go up to 744, add JFK-CPH,ARN.....i dont see how JFK could be down to much I just couldn't remembe
116 Surfdog75 : Is this domestic codeshare a two way street? AS only operates 737s and DL will need to move airplanes around the system unless they're planning on a
117 CGKings317 : SFO/LAX-SEA are already well served...why does there need to be more lift? ~CGKings317
118 LACA773 : No. There is no need for "more lift". As it is, LAX-SEA is nearly served hourly with the exception of the a.m. when there's a two hour spread between
119 PITrules : Don't know much about CVG, but in addition to what is stated above, I will add that PittsburgH is sitting on top of the largest non-conventional natu
120 PSU.DTW.SCE : Very impressive for the DTW hub, and a shot of good news for Southeastern Michigan. It's good to see that DL continuing to invest and grow the DTW hub
121 Bobnwa : The discussion was about LAX and corporate contracts. I am well aware of the corporate contracts DL/NW have in the US and who they are with. Not awar
122 Panamair : Don't see how you came to that conclusion - by my calculations, using peak numbers for 2009 and using what's been loaded so far for 2010 (which is no
123 CokePopper : I can't believe I have forgot that. Thanks BTW can't the use three planes for NRT-JFK-TLV ? [Edited 2009-10-21 05:59:57][Edited 2009-10-21 06:03:01]
124 JFK69 : I could have swore I have seen the TLV flight leave from gate 8 before (tucked away in the corner)
125 AF773 : When is the NCE reduction taking place? Winter schedule? Is it coming back daily in the summer as per usual?
126 Rampguy : Why is DL dragging their feet regarding the final blow to CVG? If they intend on dehubbing that airport, then just go ahead and do it and get it over
127 WA707atMSP : DTW-NGO is operated for Toyota and their main suppliers. Toyota's headquarters are in NGO. This flight links NGO with Toyota's North American researc
128 Lexy : That flight also carries alot of Nissan Execs. from here in the Nashville area. The Nissan HQ is also in that area as well as a number of their facto
129 Mayor : Cargowise, I like the idea of the 744 on the JFK-TLV route. Along with the the 777 ATL-TLV, it should make for quite a bit of lift, for cargo......at
130 LAXdude1023 : Wow, look at DTW. Its really becoming a great TransPac gateway! Good on ya DL!
131 SeaMeFly : Just wait and see because on the inter-company emails it say that this announcement was just the first part of the company being 1... (hoping the cer
132 Panamair : So far, JFK-NCE has only been loaded as a 5x weekly service next summer. Of course, things could/will change depending on how demand shapes up.
133 Yellowtail : NBO is hardly a niche market...there are tons of US tourists going there as well as lots of VFR......KL. BA etc make a killing on it.... This route wi
134 Transpac787 : For US carriers, it is most definitely a niche market... It's nearly the same distance to NBO via DKR as it is via CDG, AMS, or LHR. Why not just sen
135 Cubsrule : In fact, for probably 90 or more percent of the US-NBO traffic, it's faster to go via Europe.
136 Panamair : Because if yields and loads are good, why give them away to others?
137 MaverickM11 : It'll look like ATLCPT, except smaller and lower yield, with more competition over Europe.
138 FlyPNS1 : I wonder how many of these routes can survive $100+/barrel of oil. I get the feeling a route like DTW-HKG can't.
139 Flyguy1 : I noticed JFK-Mad, IST, are listed as 767-400 next summer. This is an upgrade from this summer.
140 FUN2FLY : B/C UA makes ORD>HKG work on a 744. Flown it several times at $12-6k a pop. NW/DL also knows how many passengers east of ORD they can pick up and rou
141 MaverickM11 : DTWHKG would have a tough time at $20/barrel. Excluding the NRTHKG pax, NW doesn't send much more traffic to HKG than AA, and AA doesn't even fly to
142 Jetlanta : Upon further review, I have more confidence in this one than either of you. It's a revenue story. HKG is a very strong on premium demand and relative
143 Cubsrule : I've not compared the new UA J product and DL's J product side by side - perhaps you could expand on the hard product comparison a bit...
144 FlyPNS1 : Same arguments were made for ATL-PVG and ATL-BOM. Not to mention that these super long-haul flights burn an awful amount of fuel, relative to the rev
145 Jetlanta : I don't know that any one aspect is arguably better, just that the entire package may be. I've heard good things about UA's new biz class. But, the D
146 Cubsrule : The 77L is competitive, but I'm not sold on the transfer experience. For transferring to mainline, DTW is probably better - with the caveat that as t
147 MaverickM11 : DTW will provide the best, easiest connection to just about anywhere on the Eastern Seaboard. Problem is it'll have to pry that traffic away from UA
148 Jetlanta : Same arguments were also made for ATL-JNB and ATL-LOS, etc... We can find examples for everything. You know that. DTW-PVG has outperformed expectatio
149 LAXdude1023 : Im sure DTW-PVG is doing well. Id love to hear the reason why ATL-PVG was a failure. Im pretty sure I know why, but Id love to hear the official reas
150 Jetlanta : You'll never hear one. But to be clear, ATL isn't the transpac hub that DTW is and DTW-PVG effectively replaced ATL-PVG. It's not that complicated, r
151 LAXdude1023 : Agreed. Im glad to see DL taking full advantage of DTW.
152 Jetlanta : Me too. I started my career there.
153 Luckyone : So Delta is a) increasing flying to ICN and playing off its Skyteam partner's great hub there and b) starting overfly Narita. I didn't see any new ser
154 Cubsrule : Yes, in time - although I'm not sure how much the difference between UA or CO's level of service to a place like PIT and DL's affects corporate trave
155 Jetlanta : Actually, DL announced additional frequency in the LAX-NRT market, and upguage of JFK-NRT and the return of 3x additional weekly ATL-NRT flights...al
156 Pqdtw : I'm a little confused about T3 not being able to accommodate 747's... isn't Terminal 3 the former Pan Am Worldport? How did Pan Am manage to operate
157 LACA773 : I was asking about this earlier in the thread and didn't get any answers. I'm sure the amount of 744 capable gates is minimal at this point taking in
158 OA412 : The 747 capable gates in T3 have not been reconfigured. The design of the building is such that the gate positions are more or less fixed. All gates
159 LACA773 : I don't see how they could still be since the area a 747 needs for clearance is significantly more than a 763. To get the amount of a/c DL gets in th
160 Cubsrule : I didn't say that it would be pulled as quickly as those routes, but if it takes 5 or 8 or 10 years for the route to make money - something that is n
161 Jetlanta : My sense is that there is a lot more confidence in this one at DL than there is on A.net.
162 MaverickM11 : I think that goes without saying. I also think given DL's track record lately, a.net has been right about as often as DL has .
163 Panamair : The number of gates at JFK T3 has not changed since the Pan Am days; only their numbering has. Of the 16 T3 gates, there were 8 T3 gates that used to
164 Cubsrule : Doesn't that put us back where we started? Why would Delta start ANY route in which it is not confident?
165 Jetlanta : Let me rephrase. The sense I get is that the confidence in this particular route is particularly high versus some other opportunities..both past and
166 Cubsrule : The implication is also, I hope, that this "sense" was absent with some of the duds...
167 Bobnwa : Do you have numbers to back the up? Except that A. net pronouncements generally come after the fact don't they?
168 LACA773 : Thanks for the information, Panamair. I apreicate it. I always learn something new from you.
169 Jetlanta : Of course it was. There are always routes that planners have more confidence in and some they have less confidence in. Very, very few are sure things
170 Cubsrule : My sense, though, is that the transformation is still very much ongoing. Especially with the merger, it might be more meaningful to check back in a c
171 Panamair : On today's earnings conf call (during the Q&A session), Hauenstein mentioned that they will soon announce addition(s) to JFK-LHR in the next few weeks
172 Luckyone : Agreed! Most of us have called this merger for what it is -- taking seats out of the sky. It just so happens they're able (so far) to trim and/or adj
173 DeltaL1011man : Below is a pick OA412 posted of a 744 at T3 The seemed to make it a point the the S10 Schedule isn't done.
174 MaverickM11 : It's very early and they have lots of planes to spend. Yes. I've always been way before the fact
175 DLPhoenix : I believe TLV was upgraded to improve the utilization of the 744 that was allocated to JFK-NRT. A 774 can be effective on MSP-NRT or DTW-NRT where NW
176 DeltaL1011man : This is true.......I wouldn't look for any more "big" announements as far as international goes. Few little things here and there.
177 Luckyone : US doesn't not serve NYC-TLV. US only serves JFK from Charlotte and Phoenix, and that's a token presence.
178 DeltaL1011man : DL is going to be fixing the 744s up.....give it time and the 744 will be a very nice airplane
179 Bobnwa : Are you going to be coy or are you going to share the numbers. You are among the few. You will have to agree that most A net route discussions occur
180 NYCAdvantage : I have to congratulate DL, from my point of view it shows me that they are doing it with a orchestrated plan, a plan that has been carried with sophis
181 Jetlanta : Absolutely, that is why I said take a look in 2011. If you compare where they were in 2005 vs. 2011, this is what you will see: A completely transfor
182 Worldtraveler : yes it is and it isn't unpredicted. There are no transpac gateways w/ multiple country destinations by one carrier between ORD and EWR - and thus two
183 Cubsrule : My point was simply that I'm not even sure the P&L numbers are meaningful right now. Certainly, it's better to be making money than losing it, but De
184 WorldTraveler : yes... which indications are that DL never wanted AF to start... and the NW SEA-LHR flight which was an attempt to fly something in a slot that wasn'
185 OA412 : He's likely including NWs SEA-LHR as well though I'm not certain. Duh I guess I should pay better attention to replies since this was just answered r
186 OA412 : I've heard that before. I've also heard that DL didn't support the flight in a way that AF expected them to. Wonder why that is?
187 DeltaL1011man : would be nice!! They don't have to worry about it till fall. It wont be a problem till Sept 30, 2010.....my guess is they will ask to be able to sit
188 Jetlanta : That is precisely the point of it all. Until the single operating certificate, common CRS and integrated labor is achieved, the benefits are going to
189 Cubsrule : Why would AF have started a route DL - a partner whose intimacy with AF you constantly extol - didn't want started? All quite true, but I was thinkin
190 Pqdtw : Thanks, Panamair, for that. I didn't think they had really changed, but just wanted confirmation. Now, with two 744s daily at JFK, I wonder how they
191 DeltaL1011man : I'm going to assume Delta will want to keep all LHR opps on the 76D(764 with lie-flats)
192 Pqdtw : But there's also speculation (further up the thread) that the 744s will be converted to lie-flats. Seems that if we are keeping the 744s for any leng
193 Transpac787 : The aircraft are explicitly timed to arrive from NRT at approx 3pm, then take out the TLV flight later that evening. Conversely, the TLV inbound gets
194 DeltaL1011man : Anderson told the pilots last week all 744s are staying but next year only around 12 will be in use with the other being in mod and or charters. The
195 Pqdtw : Interesting... Richard specifically used the word "retire" in answer to my question. He said of the 16, 5 would be retired and 11 would be retained.
196 Jetlanta : Well, no FIS facility is a joy when four or five flights arrive at once. The facility now has 10 international gates, I believe. The Asian flights ar
197 MaverickM11 : More flights aren't going to be the problem. Detroit as a long term growing local market is the problem. NW only carries about 10-20% more pax to HKG
198 DeltaL1011man : guess we will just see.......How did you get a chance to ask if you don't mind me asking......wish you would have gotten to ask about mods tho. Doesn
199 Jetlanta : Sabre Adjusted MIDT shows NW carrying 200-300% more U.S.-HKG O&D paxs than AA, depending on the month. This number includes interline traffic where A
200 Panamair : As Transpac787 mentioned, that will be the rotation NRT-JFK-TLV-JFK-NRT. They did something similar this past summer with the DL 777s doing both NRT
201 WorldTraveler : true... but in reality, MEMAMS is not likely to change a whole lot as a result of SOC and full merger integration. MEM is a NW hub that is seeing a f
202 Bobnwa : A few of the members questioned your numbers on this. I also would like to know the source of your claim and see the actual numbers. What are you cou
203 Jetlanta : To be clear, this was Mav's contention. The quote feature makes it look like mine.
204 MaverickM11 : Originally I wrote it from memory and admittedly it was on the low side, but looking at it again I still don't come up with anything higher than 50%
205 Cubsrule : Had you bothered to read the posts, you'd have seen that Jetlanta and I made the exact same point. Is that a function of something Delta is doing or
206 PSU.DTW.SCE : When the terminal first opened there were 4 additional widebody gates that could be converted into FIS gates by adding in the escalator/stairway anne
207 Panamair : Schedules loaded so far show ICN arriving at 1800hrs and HKG at 12 noon.
208 DLPhoenix : US flies PHL-TLV on a 332. They do not compete for NYC O&D, but they will bite into the NYC catchement area. By the time they done with the upgrades
209 Cubsrule : Thanks - I didn't find them when I looked. ICN will be fine, but 1200 can be a pretty nasty time to arrive there.
210 Mayor : Much as US is, now???
211 WorldTraveler : then tell us what your point is... the reality is that DL is starting the first of several HKG flights from the mainland because it is a market that
212 Cubsrule : Putting a 763 on it is "merger integration," isn't it?
213 WorldTraveler : yes... I was using the term in the sense that there is upside potential for some markets.. for others, there is simply the reality that the right siz
214 Cubsrule : I'm not sure how much the merger has changed that, to be honest. Most of the MEM-AMS traffic could flow over DTW before; BTR-AMS demand wasn't drivin
215 MaverickM11 : NW's current presence in HKG doesn't give them much of an advantage. "Aggresively" on price only It is. But CVG was a great connecting airport. Loved
216 Cws818 : CO is still in SkyTeam and their flights remain intact at LHR, as well.
217 WorldTraveler : NW has served HKG for years.... as of right now, DL will be the 3rd US carrier flying nonstop from the US and NW is still the senior US airline in HK
218 Cubsrule : In J, that's simply false.
219 Bobnwa : Let me see if I understand correctly. NW now has up to 50% more passengers to HKG rather than 20%. All AA passengers to HKG you are counting, connect
220 MAH4546 : He is not excluding NW connecting passengers. He is excluding NW passengers that are flying locally NRT-HKG.
221 MaverickM11 : It may. It may not. This is the first major round of Japan overflights in a long time, and NW's history of overflying Japan has been mixed, and that'
222 Bobnwa : Again, I would like to see some numbers, to back up your earlier statements.
223 Cws818 : That's not really the point I am making; accuracy is.
224 WorldTraveler : of course we count on you to look for the dark side... but I don't think NW has ever flown HKG from an interior US point. UA simply has had more west
225 Cubsrule : It's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison, is it? UA has - and will have - much more revenue potential than DL will.[Edited 2009-10-23 18:33:14]
226 MAH4546 : Northwest has flown both SEA-HKG and MSP-HKG. Both routes were very short-lived. I think only about 6-8 months for each.
227 747fan : While ORD-HKG couldn't exist purely on local traffic, it is still definitely a larger market than DTW when it comes to O&D. While DTW is a good conne
228 Bobnwa : Why is that so evident to you and not to me.
229 WorldTraveler : they have more revenue potential by virtue of operating a larger plane - but their 744s have only about 80 more seats (about 25%) but 60% higher cost
230 WorldTraveler : a litte bit of extra data on HKG. About half of CO's passengers on its EWR-HKG flight are connecting passengers and they carry those passengers at muc
231 747fan : These markets are all fairly competitive, DL will have to compete against UA, CO and AA (and AA's OW partners) to gain this traffic - and this is the
232 Cubsrule : They also have significantly more RASM potential by virtue of having an F cabin and, to a lesser extent, Y+.
233 FWAERJ : AA doesn't fly to HKG (and probably won't until the APA gets their act together). They rely entirely on CX codeshares for HKG.
234 MaverickM11 : I prefer to call it "reality". Plus I'm still optimistic about all of the other Asian routes with the exception of SEAKIX. It's pretty much 80-90% of
235 MAH4546 : No, but thanks to their partnership with CX, AA carriers a very large amount of U.S.-HKG traffic via CX's North American points and via Tokyo. This a
236 WorldTraveler : You provide a good summary statement. Yes, these carriers are all competitive and I fully expect that DL will have to work to gain a presence in the
237 Cubsrule : Does UA 885 not work? Presumably, UA would axe it if it did not. Can we agree, for the sake of argument, to take LHR as "Europe?" IAH-HKG is 7252 nm
238 747fan : Indeed, I believe we'll see CX on this route before AA ever flies to HKG. From what I've heard UA does quite well on ORD-HKG (good premium traffic, h
239 Mayor : Yes, but doesn't it seem foolish to have to fly IAH-EWR to connect to EWR-HKG, when you could just as easily fly IAH-LAX and connect LAX-HKG??? At le
240 Panamair : The whole discussion of circuitous routings using the Great Circle distances means virtually nothing to most travelers, many of whom aren't even aware
241 Panamair : The latest schedule update shows that JFK-TXL is going daily again next summer. Latest schedule adjustment shows JFK-NCE going back to daily starting
242 LIPZ : DL will be also reducing MXP-ATL to 5xw in S10, never happend before.
243 GayStudPilot : The bean counters care...
244 MaverickM11 : Are you sure you want to go down that path? You'll be wrong again.
245 CokePopper : Any word on JFK-OTP returning?
246 NYCAdvantage : Are you suggesting that CO work hard because they fly wrong? just kidding I think it works better for CO from EWR, here they have Chinatown just acro
247 The777Man : Very ture! Keep in mind also that they most important factor for most travellers is getting the lowest fare. So if a passneger can get a lower fare f
248 WorldTraveler : Panamair's point is precisely correct. Passengers look at elapsed flying time and that is how CRSs display schedules. LHR is indeed part of Europe bu
249 Mayor : I think everyone missed what I was saying. Why would you fly IAH-EWR to connect EWR-HKG and why would the airline even make that a valid connection?
250 MaverickM11 : DL has added a lot of things, and half of them don't work. So why don't we see if it lasts, or if it even makes it to the Summer, before you congratu
251 Cubsrule : Why not? If CO can make money doing that (and my guess is that they can charge more than the competition on IAH-HKG), why shouldn't they sell the con
252 Bobnwa : Shouldn't DL be congratulated for dropping flights that don't work or any airline for that matter. I don't get your point in criticizing DL for this,
253 NYCAdvantage : I thought the same thing when they added all that capacity for S10, but again by overflying NRT I feel DL is telling JAL we can also do it with out y
254 WorldTraveler : Again, you don't seem to be able to understand that DL does not believe that offering a flight on a year round basis is a measure of success; DL has
255 Cubsrule : All right. SFO-ATL-LHR is less circuitous than SFO-NRT-LHR. Is that the comparison you want to make? I'm only half-kidding - when you say less circui
256 Enilria : I disagree. IMHO, I think they clearly plan to replicate JFK on the West Coast. The question is whether SEA has supplanted the LAX plan or whether th
257 Luckyone : I think he's saying for cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, San Antonio, etc... it doesn't matter since you have to connect...
258 Cubsrule : ...but then he cited LAX and SFO, which have all kinds of n/s service to Europe, and PDX, which has a nonstop Delta flight to Europe (which offers si
259 Luckyone : So he did,l ol. I ignore most of his posts, I can summarize them in three words. He did raise a good point though, sort of...
260 MaverickM11 : I think you should throw them a parade when they announce a route, and when they inevitably can it. Uh, are you kidding us with this? What he's sayin
261 DeltaL1011man : Alot of people like gateway vs. hub. The only problem DL has in LA is T5 can only take a 777 and a 744 at the same time. Also the room between T4/T5
262 WorldTraveler : DL will not build LAX into a transpac version of JFK. But there are more routes that DL can add and they will add more in time from LAX.. the LR is a
263 Luckyone : Dude Evil Keneival (SP?) couldn't make a leap that big...
264 EMB170 : I always wondered what those secondary little jetways (that were actually fixed into the mortar/masonry) at T-3 were for. I had suspected the forward
265 MaverickM11 : Look WT, you say a lot of silly things but this is definitely top ten. LAX to just about anywhere in Europe on DL is more circuitous than IAHHKG over
266 WorldTraveler : but you can't counter the fact that DL does in fact carry significant numbers of passengers between the west coast and Europe over ATL, on routings t
267 Cubsrule : No one said that. You were the one that brought up circuity (in Reply 231).
268 MaverickM11 : No, you're the only one saying any routing (but of course never DL) is too circuitous. Stop while you're miles behind. Seriously, this is just gettin
269 WorldTraveler : The circuity which you want to say should prevent DL from being a significant player in the west coast to Europe market clearly doesn't matter because
270 MaverickM11 : That is all in your head. I've never said DL shouldn't be a significant player; in fact I said it is. Again, you're the only one bringing up the issu
271 WorldTraveler : First of all, you are the first to yell "they've failed" when DL doesn't operate a route on a daily, year round basis yet DL still has managed to add
272 MaverickM11 : And I've been right about nearly all of them. Which means you've been wrong about nearly all of them. Anyone can do a search and see that for themsel
273 Papatango : Why don;t you two get a room!
274 Tommy767 : Yeah really, but I also was going to say out of the 262 some replies to this thread I'm surprised that no deltoids posted the complete 2010 DL/NW sum
275 Post contains links Mayor : I believe they've actually posted what was in the news release, but here's the link to the article for ya...... http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&
276 UN_B732 : Are you sure KBP is a 764? A random date in June shows JFK-KBP on the 763, JFK-SVO on the 763, and ATL-SVO on the 763. Too bad I won't be seeing the 7
277 Mayor : I don't know if all the new flights and/or the a/c changes have been loaded into the res system, yet.
278 OA412 : Look we all come here to debate and trade ideas but this pointless pissing match between the two of you was old 20 threads ago. Maverick you go on and
279 WorldTraveler : and well worth it. I am not a person who enjoys endless pugilism... you and others happen to have a ringside seat in a longstanding discussion that c
280 Jfk777 : This is a great thing giving DTW more nonstop Pacific service. Delta should seriously consider modifying the NRT hub like United has done, UA flies n
281 Hohd : PIT is lucky that DL is not cutting the route entirely. Having been to the nearly empty airport and the small city several times I did not think PIT
282 Post contains links NYCAdvantage : Delta hired St. Louis-based Fleishman this month to gain access to the nation’s decision makers and to promote the company to the Japanese public, a
283 Cws818 : 1-800-OY-VEY!!!! As far as I can determine, no one on these forums who make credible contributions would argue against the proposition that DL is far
284 MaverickM11 : I didn't even bring up either this time! In fact it looks like DL may have even used a forecast . I said I liked DL's Pacific adds with the exception
285 WorldTraveler : It is because of the NRT hub that DL has a dominant position in Japan. They clearly want the JAL deal to go through because it gives them the NRT hub
286 MaverickM11 : Did you miss the whole DTWHKG discussion? And you're bringing up oneworld ATI in a thread about DL's Summer 2010 additions because...? Did AA fire yo
287 Pgh234 : PIT used to support BA to LON for nearly 20 years and US to LGW/CDG/FRA for up to a decade. With a few hundred europe bound pax each day (plus whatev
288 USPIT10L : US flew PITFRA from 1990-2004. LGW was only served for four years, CDG for four as well (1999-2002 on CDG, 2000-2004 for LGW). BA's service was tied
289 MasseyBrown : Market caps, as of right now: DL - $5.9 billion AK, CO, AA, UA, US (.9+1.7+1.9+1.1+.5) - $6.1 billion But why quibble over accuracy?
290 Panamair : Actually, at this moment, DAL is trading at $7.59 and as of Q3 09 reporting, DAL had 828 million shares outstanding. $7.59* 820 million shares = $6.2
291 IliriBDL : Does that mean how much the company is worth and for example for half a billion you could buy US? Sorry I'm asking but I don't understand it.
292 MasseyBrown : Some of the others have issued shares as well, but the numbers I cited are all based on the same 10-Q date. I could also include Republic (adding abo
293 Post contains links WorldTraveler : what's that saying about pots? since I posted my values at least a day ago.. things change. thank you... simple objectivity is all I request... in bo
294 Srbmod : One thing that has to be remembered is that in some cases, Delta did not renew their sponsorship deals as they expired. Delta dropped their sponsorsh
295 Luckyone : I'm not sure I agree with that. While Delta shouldn't be ignoring the needs of its Atlanta base (and that would be the stupidest thing they could pos
296 Jfk777 : Having an NRT hub to Singapore , Bangkok and western Asian points is not what is used to be. Continental and United have shown us nonstop service to
297 MaverickM11 : Hence DL pulling out all the stops to get JL on their team... It could almost instantly turn a consistently loss-making franchise into a profitable o
298 Post contains links LipeGIG : This becomes too long with now almost 300 replies. Please consider this thread closed, and continue discussions on Part II , now open: DL Summer 2010
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