UAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 22341 times:
I was on the site 30 minutes ago, it is really shocking, the aircraft is totally burned and impossible to find survivors.
Sharjah civil defence and Police should be appreciated, they are working so hard, a further support expected from the army of UAE.
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2066 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20946 times:
Azza Transport Boeing 707-330C ST-AKW crashes
Azza Transport Company (Khartoum) has lost its Boeing 707-330C ST-AKW (msn 20123) minutes ago on takeoff at Sharjah. The classic airliner has crashed and burned. The airframe was originally delivered to Lufthansa as D-ABUJ on February 27, 1969. Since then it has also served with Condor, United Arab Emirates (A6-DPA), Sudan Airways (ST-AKW) and Ibis Air Transport (P4-AKW) as well as other carriers. The crash has closed the Sharjah Airport and several Air Arabia flights (and others) are being diverted. The six crew members have died in the crash.
News link:
news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091021/wl_africa_afp/
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
Trystero From Portugal, joined Oct 2008, 243 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20450 times:
RIP to the crew, and thoughts for family and friends.
This frame is over forty years old and God knows how many cycles. Isn't this stretching things a bit to far? Not implying that any of these factors where the cause of the crash.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20350 times:
Quoting Trystero (Reply 14): Not implying that any of these factors where the cause of the crash.
Then why mention it? Although Sudan is obviously not in posession of a great aviation safety record, we all know perfectly well that older aircraft can be operated perfectly safely.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14315 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20295 times:
A sad story for sure.
Quoting ArniePie (Reply 4): B2 bomber crash looked more or less similar
How many Sudanese cargo planes even have air data computers?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Trystero From Portugal, joined Oct 2008, 243 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19955 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15): Then why mention it? Although Sudan is obviously not in posession of a great aviation safety record, we all know perfectly well that older aircraft can be operated perfectly safely.
Not saying this was the cause, but not excluding. We have seen excess of use being the cause of some crashes.
AndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 45 Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19871 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Then why mention it? Although Sudan is obviously not in posession of a great aviation safety record, we all know perfectly well that older aircraft can be operated perfectly safely.
Obviously what he's saying is that a 40 year old frame is more likely to have a failure than a brand new aircraft. A perfectly valid point. This is - after all - a discussion forum.
RIP to those lost, and it is sad to also lose another 707.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11950 posts, RR: 37 Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 18061 times:
The aircraft was first delivered to Lufthansa in 1969, then went to Condor in '79 and spent time with the UAE VIP fleet, Sudan Airways and the Sudan govt. Some interesting info, including photos here:
QatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1599 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17839 times:
DXB and SHJ should ban the use of dangerous planes, like this one! The airports are located very near residential areas and it is dangerous operating these old, unsafe planes near them.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17532 times:
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 20): DXB and SHJ should ban the use of dangerous planes, like this one! The airports are located very near residential areas and it is dangerous operating these old, unsafe planes near them.
Good, so we know it was because of the plane's age and condition do we? Could we have your source on that please?
Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 18): Obviously what he's saying is that a 40 year old frame is more likely to have a failure than a brand new aircraft. A perfectly valid point
Out of interest, if (for argument's sake) we were to assume that this plane was well-maintained (again, not asserting that it actually was), would it necessarily have a greater risk of failure than a new plane? Do new planes operating to the same standards definitely have fewer failure than older ones?
413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16107 times:
Where do people get the idea that older airplane = more crashes?
25 CodyKDiamond: My condolences to the flight crew and other members onboard and their families. What a horrific crash. It is so sad that six people and the best type
26 Noelg: Oh FFS get off your high horse and quit spreading malicious rumour. Is it any wonder the press are so anti-older aircraft and therefore aviation in g
27 RussianJet: Indeed. Surely a badly-maintained newer craft is just as dangerous as a badly-maintained older one?
28 SQ325: Condolences to all families involved. I'm glad that there has not been more causalities with so much buildings next to the Airport. I saw the plan inv
29 Jreuschl: From a comment on the time out Dubai article: "Flights take off directly above our office in Sharjah Airport Free Zone. Eyewitnesses standing outside
30 KC135TopBoom: It could be several different things that cause something like this. The most common of them, since the B-707 banked to the right, then continued to
31 B747FE: Just another piece of "A.net wisdom"... Like this one: Regards, B747FE.
32 OV735: The 707 is banned throughout the EU, because it does not meet Chapter 3 noise regulations. Government and military aircraft are an exception, as are
33 Jreuschl: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/em...ore-it-crashed-in-sharjah-1.517696 Could have been overloaded, speculation and witness reports in this article.
34 RussianJet: Except this one perhaps? http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...d=1bc7db0e08738e0ea69d0c068c394957
35 OV735: It's difficult to judge without seeing the flight plan or knowing the background. On another photo, the same aircraft is carrying the President of An
36 RussianJet: Probably. It certainly doesn't always carry government. I've seen it a few times.
37 BMI727: Someone brought up the subject of the B-2 crash that was caused by the air data computer. I commented I didn't think that the aircraft in question ev
38 AndrewUber: Assuming the aircraft was well maintained - the components and structure are still 40 years older than those on a new aircraft. They have been throug
39 Bennett123: Also, given the lower accident rates over the years, it seems reasonable that design changes are a factor.
40 Irobertson: I second that motion too! And I'd get there on an Iran Air 747-100! RIP to the crew, and to this lovely old 707...
41 QatarA340: I agree that a plane's age has nothing to do with its probability of crashing. But what do you get when cross a 40 year old plane from a third world
42 Nwafflyer: I'm sorry, but the age of the aircraft has absolutely nothing to do with it. The poor maintenance definitly does. This could have been a 737, or a 320
43 B747FE: No it wasn't. It was inaccurate. The airplane in question had an ADC. Servo-altimeters; Air data computers; Inertial Navigation Systems aren't exactl
44 SOBHI51: An eyewitness said he saw a piece of the plane as big as a motorcycle fall before the crash. Could that be an engine? Just speculating.
45 MCOflyer: RIP to all those that have perished. KH
46 ArniePie: That would've been me, but it was only as a respons to a question But I think I also made it clear that I didn't know what brought down this particul
47 EBJ1248650: Possibly. Engine loss could cause loss of control.
49 Jetjeanes: Weight and balance, even if it lost an engine it still could recoup, someone overloaded the plane or loaded it backwards to the manifest sheet if they
50 UK_Dispatcher: They certainly do have Loading Instruction Reports in that part of the world. Aircraft like this would generally have a professional Loadmaster on bo
51 Radarbeam: Stop the presses! Qatara340 has solved the crash! Old airframe, thats what it is...phewww thanks for your ''expertise'' man! Seriously I was expectin
52 SV777KiloAlpha: This a video taken from an airport camera showing the crash. After takeoff it is clear that something had fallen form he aircraft. At he time of the c
53 Radarbeam: RIP to the crew. No doubt this was an intense moment for them. From the preliminary reports it seems they did the darnest to avoid populated areas. My
54 SOBHI51: If you look carefully around 0.38 seconds you will see on the upper left corner something falling to the ground.
55 Trystero: Since I brought the issue, let me make this more clear. Age might not mean nothing in a well maintained plane, or even with poor maintenance. The same
56 RussianJet: I do hope that comment wasn't supposed to be serious. I specifically said already that Sudan does not have a good safety record. I don't need telling
57 N14AZ: I know this. But in addition - if I remember correctly, please correct me if I am wrong - Belgium tried to ban or did ban civil aircrafts with an age
58 IADCA: People, save the drama on the old-aircraft issue. There are two sides to this, and both are correct to some degree. Yes, a well-maintained old aircraf
59 Hiflyer: Whatever came off was heavy and apparently not very aerodynamic due to the rate of fall. The last frame showing the aircraft has it appearing to be ro
60 Airevents: Well, airlines operating B707 today must be - more or less - forced to do so by special, partly political, partly economical reasons, often in connect
61 OV735: I remember reading something about an EU-wide age-related ban aswell, but the magazine is packed away in the attic somewhere. Nevertheless, I don't t
62 Aerdingus: The video of it falling & crashing into a ball of flames is very distressing. RIP
63 Flaps: As the physical loss/separation of an engine even at takeoff "should" not cause the loss of control of a 707 I was initially inclined to think that p
64 IlliniCMI: Wow, the PC police are working overtime on this thread. Strictly as an observer, I took the point of some posters to be that older planes = more maint
65 PHBUF: thanks for the link, that video is very disturbing and/or impressive I personally am assuming the object falling off the airplane was an engine and i
66 413x3: Except in El Als case, BOTH engines on one side and the flaps were damaged/destroyed. I don't see why 1 engine out of 4 failing would cause such an i
67 PHBUF: agreed, possibly (like with El Al) the engine seperation caused some/a lot of hydraulical damage? certainly hope they can figure out what went wrong
68 N14AZ: Also in the El Al case only one engine separated initially. Unfortunately, it ripped of the second engine when falling back and damaged the wing.
69 SV777KiloAlpha: I use to fly to/from Sharjah VFR. It might be that the airplane experienced total thrust failure and the PF had two choice: 1. Force land straight ahe
70 PHBUF: OK, i'm preparing myself to get annihilated, but I'm gonna say it..I think the pilots did not have control at all..the whole 'he purposely banked to t
71 Gonzalo: That video is really disturbing, the object falling from the aircraft is pretty clear, but hard to say what it is. And is also hard to say, but I doub
72 BMI727: This was due to a loss of hydraulic pressure that caused the slats on that side to retract and the wing to stall, not due to the engine itself. The s
73 Gonzalo: That's my hunch too. The other case I was mentioning in AMS, was after all because the engines took a portion of the wing slats with them, plus rippe
74 BMI727: AMS was slightly different in that the accident was caused when the leading edge of the wing was damaged. As the aircraft slowed down to attempt and
75 Viscount724: Even if it wasn't banned in the EU for safety-related reasons, it would be banned due to failure to meet current EU noise limits. Only very few 707s
76 AirTran737: As a professional Loadmaster who works extensively in the Middle East, and Africa (as well as the rest of the world) I can say that this plane being
77 Bennett123: Not trying to be dumb, but if each pallet weighs the same, why is the sequence important?.
78 AirTran737: I said pretty much the same, which makes it all the more important. They tend to be within a few hundred pounds of one another
79 N14AZ: In the meantime they should have been able to find this object and to identify it. Does anybody know more?
80 Woof: I'm sorry but reading this statement is pretty close to reading 1+1 = 3. Of course a plane's probability of crashing increases with age, for many, ma
81 Hiflyer: Doing a google news search brought up the flwng article http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs....=/20091024/NATIONAL/710239770/1133 brief excerpt: Engin
82 N14AZ: There is another article on flightglobal about this crash: Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...y-confirms-part-fell-from-jet.html
83 KC135TopBoom: A cargo load of 30 tinnes is not near the max cargo weight of a B-707. Also since it was scheduled for a 4 hour flight, it would have had about 60,00
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