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US-CAN Tickets Prices  
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Alright....so when will ticket prices between US and Canada become reasonbale???

I mean despite having the open skies agreement for about 10 years now, prices remain extremely steep, like a RT WAS-YYZ costing about $400!!!

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

Your question about reasonable prices should be asked by airlines. They are often giving out fares that they can't make money on. Some routes cost more than others, live with it. But rest assured that the airlines are not rolling in cash from gouging travelers.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineEASTERN From United States of America, joined May 2009, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

I believe part of it is due to the relatively high international taxes to Canada. I also remember reading somewhere that YYZ has some of the highest landing fees, although I could be mistaken. I hope someone can verify that.

Working in the NYC area, I meet many Canadians who find that flying NYC-BUF (to get to YYZ) or NYC-BTV (to get to YUL) and then driving over the border or getting a ride is much more cost effective than flying into their respective airports.



P from NYC
User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2621 times:



Quoting EASTERN (Reply 2):
believe part of it is due to the relatively high international taxes to Canada. I also remember reading somewhere that YYZ has some of the highest landing fees, although I could be mistaken. I hope someone can verify that.

Correct, although the airport has recognised this and made an attempt to reduce them.

Do what I do -- use BUF or ROC (or even DTW) depending where you want to go in Southern Ontario!

40% of BUF's pax are Canadians now, and they built out the airport (and TSA lines) to handle them!



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineRafaelyyz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

YYZ dropped its fees by 10% recently, if I'm not mistaken.

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2544 times:



Quoting Yegbey01 (Thread starter):
Alright....so when will ticket prices between US and Canada become reasonbale???

However, define what's "reasonable" in your opinion....other than practically for nothing?
They are reasonable on the grounds that hundreds of thousands of passengers are paying them, so thus what you personally consider 'reasonable' is purely subjective. If you don't find it reasonable, then simply don't pay it.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2524 times:



Quoting Rafaelyyz (Reply 4):
YYZ dropped its fees by 10% recently, if I'm not mistaken.

Effective January 1, 2010. They said it would save airlines approximately $58 million a year.

In a deregulated Open Skies market like Canada-USA, airlines charge as much as they can, and obviously passengers are willing to pay current fares as load factors are generally over 80%. I don't think there's much difference between load factors on transborder and domestic routes. If passengers stopped flying, airlines would reduce their fares. There's no reason to otherwise, especially with virtually all airlines suffering huge losses. Air fares are still bargains compared to fares in effect before deregulation.


User currently offlineFlyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Flights are extremely high between Canada and the States. I can fly a route like YYC-ORD or YEG-IAH for and for almost the same amount I could fly nonstop to LHR or FRA alot of the time.

User currently offlineWhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2403 times:
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Quoting Yegbey01 (Thread starter):
I mean despite having the open skies agreement for about 10 years now, prices remain extremely steep, like a RT WAS-YYZ costing about $400!!!

How much of it was tax?

How about drive and let us know how much it cost?


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1764 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

It should also be pointed out that flying within Canada is relatively expensive. Both within Canada and Canada-USA, their typically are 1 to 2 carriers serving any 2 given cities, and with the exception of Westjet those tend not to be low cost carriers. AFAIK none of the US LCCs flies to Canada, which is hard to fathom considering that several (JetBlue, Spirit) serve the Caribbean and parts of Latin America. Also most routes between Canada-USA tend to be low density (except for NYC and South Florida).

User currently offlineEvolv From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

The "rent" that the Canadian government charges airports contributes to the high fares for Canada

User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2228 times:



Quoting EASTERN (Reply 2):
I believe part of it is due to the relatively high international taxes to Canada.



Quoting Evolv (Reply 10):

 checkmark 

Taxes can easily double ticket prices. That's why I prefer to fly out of SEA when I go on vacation to places my company's flight passes don't cover. Even with the exchange rate, flying out of the US is far cheaper.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2078 times:



Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 8):
How much of it was tax?

How about drive and let us know how much it cost?

If you can get a R/T from BWI to BUF for less than $120 all in...you will know what I'm talking about.

I just can't fathom why airlines get away with charging such steep prices to fly between Canada and the US!! The thing is that theer are so many arilines that can offer flights between Toronto and Washington (not non-stop mind you), but given that, why don't they actually provide competitive fares!


User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

In August I paid $600 r/t from PHX-YUL which was high, but not unexpected. A lot of it was taxes. I've been keeping an eye on PHX-YEG as I'd like to go up there, but the ticket prices are always high.

User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1937 times:



Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 12):
I just can't fathom why airlines get away with charging such steep prices to fly between Canada and the US!! The thing is that theer are so many arilines that can offer flights between Toronto and Washington (not non-stop mind you), but given that, why don't they actually provide competitive fares!

Sorry, but I don't quite understand what you don't seem to be grasping. Airlines can charge any price they wish.......if passengers are willing to pay it then there is nothing wrong with it and it is both acceptable and reasonable. This happens to anything you purchase, so it's not just airline tickets. Why should 'they' provide competitive fares....to suit/please whom? They quite obviously are being competitive, otherwise passengers wouldn't be buying the tickets. I've already asked you, but yet without an answer, as to what you are defining as 'reasonable'. You must acknowledge that any airline doesn't find their fares 'unreasonable' simply because you don't want to pay the particular price. No other business would either.
The simple fact is, if you don't find it 'reasonable', then simply don't pay it.......but you can't keep complaining without giving an explanation of why.


User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1726 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1731 times:



Quoting AirNz (Reply 14):
Sorry, but I don't quite understand what you don't seem to be grasping. Airlines can charge any price they wish.......if passengers are willing to pay it then there is nothing wrong with it and it is both acceptable and reasonable. This happens to anything you purchase, so it's not just airline tickets. Why should 'they' provide competitive fares....to suit/please whom? They quite obviously are being competitive, otherwise passengers wouldn't be buying the tickets. I've already asked you, but yet without an answer, as to what you are defining as 'reasonable'. You must acknowledge that any airline doesn't find their fares 'unreasonable' simply because you don't want to pay the particular price. No other business would either.
The simple fact is, if you don't find it 'reasonable', then simply don't pay it.......but you can't keep complaining without giving an explanation of why.

Well....I was just saying that despite Open Skies between US and Can, prices have remained much higher than US domestic fares. I can understand when there were fewer flights between the two countries that prices would be higher as demand oustripped supply. But trust there's a lot of flights between US and Can and yet airlines can still get away with charging ridiculous rates from 2 and 4 hour flights. What is reasonable??? I would have throught by now, that ticket prices (Before tax anyways) would be similar to what one would pay for domestic ticket prices in the US.


User currently offlineSignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 3005 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Isn't this a benefit / consequence of a free market? Supply and demand. The airline will charge the maximum that people are prepared to pay, and enough people are prepared to pay $400 for such a trip.
There's always Greyhound  Wink

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1645 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1629 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 9):
It should also be pointed out that flying within Canada is relatively expensive. Both within Canada and Canada-USA, their typically are 1 to 2 carriers serving any 2 given cities

As always, the expense of flying in Canada is always going to be high. 1 Legacy, 1 Major flying 33 million people around in Canada. Compare that to about 8-10 Legacy/Major carriers in the US. The numbers of pax per airline would be (in the MOST RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLISTIC FORM) 15 mil per carrier in Canada, and 30+ million is the USA. Add to that the larger distances between cities in Canada, and well...it will also equate to trans-border travel.

This is not unlike the arguement you would get in Australia: large landmass and distances between cities, and a relatively low population.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2998 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1614 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 17):
As always, the expense of flying in Canada is always going to be high. 1 Legacy, 1 Major flying 33 million people around in Canada. Compare that to about 8-10 Legacy/Major carriers in the US. The numbers of pax per airline would be (in the MOST RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLISTIC FORM) 15 mil per carrier in Canada, and 30+ million is the USA. Add to that the larger distances between cities in Canada, and well...it will also equate to trans-border travel.

 checkmark 
i.e. thin routes. Air carriers can't change geography or demographics.

I can often fly YOW-LHR-YOW more cheaply than YOW-YVR-YOW (booking at the same time for flights in the same period) - but that's life. Airlines are a business, not a public service (leaving aside EAS in the U.S.).



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1645 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1551 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 18):
Airlines are a business, not a public service (leaving aside EAS in the U.S.).

SPOT ON, Kaiarahi! Anyone living in Northern Canada certainly can understand that.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2998 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1499 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 19):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 18):
Airlines are a business, not a public service (leaving aside EAS in the U.S.).

SPOT ON, Kaiarahi! Anyone living in Northern Canada certainly can understand that.

Cheers. I've flown First Air and Canadian North often enough to remote communities to know they compete on service (Irish coffee), not on fares.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineYyztpa From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Below are the typical fares for TPA-YYZ return booked with AC in mid November ($US). These are Tango Plus. Cheaper Tango fares were no longer available.

Passenger Type Adult
Departing Flight - Tango Plus 149.00
Returning Flight - Tango Plus 159.00
Surcharges NAV 14.28
U.S.A Transportation Tax US 24.17
Sub Total 346.45

Taxes, Fees and Charges
Canada Airport Improvement Fee SQ 24.29
U.S Agriculture Fee XA 5.00
Air Travellers Security Charge (ATSC) CA 8.10
U.S Passenger Facility Charge XF 4.50
U.S. Flight Segment Tax ZP 7.20
Canada Goods and Services Tax (GST/HST #10009-2287 RT0001) XG 1.21
September 11 Security Fee AY 2.50
U.S.A Immigration User Fee XY 7.00

Total airfare and taxes before options (per passenger) 406.25

The border related charges are not billed to those who drive across.

The same days Southwest offers TPA-BUF for $291 US on the cheapest 'Wanna Get Away' fares. Plus:
# Fares do not include a federal excise tax of up to $3.60 per takeoff and landing.
# Fares do not include airport-assessed passenger facility charges (PFC) of up to $9 and government-imposed September 11th Security Fee of up to $5 one-way.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2998 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1481 times:



Quoting Yyztpa (Reply 21):
Below are the typical fares for TPA-YYZ return booked with AC in mid November ($US).

So the difference (leaving aside taxes, airport charges etc that are outside the airlines' control) is AC $308, WN $291. Pretty competitive, given that this is AC Tango+, not Tango.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
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