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United Announces SFO-STL  
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9579 times:
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United Airlines said Thursday that it will launch daily nonstop service between St. Louis and San Francisco beginning Feb. 11.

News of the added flight comes a day after Southwest Airlines said it would add nine daily flights to six new destinations from Lambert-St. Louis International Airport, beginning in May.

The new westbound United flight will leave St. Louis at 6:30 p.m. and arrive at San Francisco International Airport at 7:41 p.m. Eastbound service will depart San Francisco at 12:05 p.m. and arrive in St. Louis at 5:50 p.m.

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlou.../2009/10/19/daily41.html?ana=yfcpc

[Edited 2009-10-22 11:47:03 by iowaman]


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9555 times:

Hmmmm..... Convenient of WN to NOT announce anything yesterday from STL to the Bay Area... Boy are things getting interesting in the civil aviation industry lately!

bb


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9542 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter):
The new westbound United flight will leave St. Louis at 6:30 p.m. and arrive at San Francisco International Airport at 7:41 p.m. Eastbound service will depart San Francisco at 12:05 p.m. and arrive in St. Louis at 5:50 p.m.

Interesting timing. The old AA flight was a morning departure from STL with a noon arrival into SFO. This flight, while not terrible for business travelers (fly out after a full day in STL, but you only get a morning in SFO before departure) should be pretty good for the late night Asian flights.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9517 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Interesting timing.

yes but what is really interesting is that UA just closed the station and all the mainline employees were furloughed...now they are going to open the station again

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9438 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
Hmmmm..... Convenient of WN to NOT announce anything yesterday from STL to the Bay Area... Boy are things getting interesting in the civil aviation industry lately!

I'm somewhat surprised to see LAX at two daily but yet not an OAK flight as well considering STL is getting pretty diversified with destinations.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9438 times:

Nice, I'd rather fly UA out to the Bay Area--Economy Plus will be nice to have on this route.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9410 times:



Quoting Iowaman (Reply 5):
I'm somewhat surprised to see LAX at two daily but yet not an OAK flight as well considering STL is getting pretty diversified with destinations.

One flight to the Bay Area is probably about all STL can support anyway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1628 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9391 times:



Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 3):

yes but what is really interesting is that UA just closed the station and all the mainline employees were furloughed...now they are going to open the station again

Yes, as was discussed in the rumor thread that was around the past few days, word on through the grapevine is mainline service will also return to at least ORD-STL, and possibly also be added on IAD-STL. It appears the DEN-STL will remain UA Express only, which as others have pointed out, is most likely due to a combination of the need to rotate regional aircraft and the high capacity in the market due to WN and F9.

At the end of the day, the incentives given to UA by the airport plus the potential they must see in the SFO-STL route apparently made the cost of bringing back the mainline employees worthwhile.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 4):
Also, for those who haven't had time to go through the other threads:

I appreciate your posting of all the WN routes for informational purposes, but I'm afraid it might turn this into another thread debating the WN announcements as well.


User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9349 times:

The timing obviously will not feed the Asia bank, but its the only way UA can make this work. They can use the same plane r/t. Also, another arrival in the morning bank from 930a-11a would have no place to park. The gates are all occupied with multiple domestic flight arriving at the international terminal.

SkyWest is trying to pick up an additional mainline gate as we are tapped out as well.

Maybe this will be the start of a second large UA bank, but without the Asia flight.

Hey the STL pax can one-stop it to Sydney!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22840 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9315 times:



Quoting As739x (Reply 9):
The timing obviously will not feed the Asia bank, but its the only way UA can make this work.

My sense - and it's only a sense - is that UA's domestic connections at SFO are as good as what AA now offers at STL. If AA was able to make STL-SFO work for as long as it did (and it would have gotten axed sooner if it were a poor performer), my sense is that UA STL-SFO can work with zero Asia connections.

Would Asia connections help? Sure, but I don't think they are absolutely necessary.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9236 times:



Quoting As739x (Reply 9):
The timing obviously will not feed the Asia bank,

Maybe not the flights to Japan or ICN, but a lot of the longer flights, HKG and SYD, for example, have departures around midnight to the very early morning. So a long connection, but it works.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
is that UA's domestic connections at SFO are as good as what AA now offers at STL.

They'd just as soon route them via DEN or ORD. This flight will have to survive on O&D plus whatever Asia/Australia connections they get.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22840 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9174 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
They'd just as soon route them via DEN or ORD.

...and you could have made an identical argument about AA and DFW/ORD. SFO-IAD demand wasn't sustaining the AA service.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9151 times:

It's great to see all of these new destinations added lately - GEG, MCI, MSP, and now STL; I might even be missing a couple. I hope UA continues!

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

Very glad to see Mainline return to STL!

Also a new destination added by United also.

The incentives from Lambert so far are working really well!  Smile

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9086 times:

WOW! STL is really getting some love! Hey guys, how 'bout sharing some with your friends down I-24? Come on, help a brotha out here fellas.  bigthumbsup 


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6761 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9030 times:

WOW! I am impressed with STL and their ability to bounce back! And within a few weeks of getting cut.

I'm also a little jealous that my home airport is not seeing that much, but oh well. So with all this new service, is STL gonna redo any of their terminal or perhaps tear some down?

Will this be United's only mainline service into STL or could this be a RJ flight too?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9014 times:



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):

Will this be United's only mainline service into STL or could this be a RJ flight too?

STL-SFO is an Airbus A319.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8987 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Will this be United's only mainline service into STL or could this be a RJ flight too?

"United will use an Airbus A319 aircraft for the flight, with eight seats in “first” class, 40 seats in “economy plus” and 72 seats in “economy.”"



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8964 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

I was referring more to online connections. With United you will only have Sydney and with Star carriers you will have HKG (SQ),AKL (NZ) and YVR (AC).

I was not arguing your point about the flight, I think it will be a good addition. But have you noticed that STL will be virtually the only city served by UA from SFO without a morning arrival. The hubs main feed is the late morning and early afternoon Asia rush.Thats my only point.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1628 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8922 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 14):
WOW! STL is really getting some love! Hey guys, how 'bout sharing some with your friends down I-24? Come on, help a brotha out here fellas.

We are sharing the love, what else would you call the STL-BNA flights?  Big grin

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Will this be United's only mainline service into STL or could this be a RJ flight too?

As stated above, mainline will return to STL for this flight. The rumor mill suggests that the loss of capacity at STL that is causing UA to return mainline service for the SFO flight may also result in some mainline being returned on ORD-STL and introduced on IAD-STL. Both make some sense given that UA could probably always fill up ORD-STL on an Airbus if they so desired and IAD-STL is seeing the loss of AA Connection capacity.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8881 times:



Quoting As739x (Reply 18):
I was referring more to online connections. With United you will only have Sydney and with Star carriers you will have HKG (SQ),AKL (NZ) and YVR (AC).

The new flight isn't terrible for Asian connections, but noon would have been better.

If I were UA, I would have done it like this:
Mid-morning departure from STL for a noonish arrival in SFO for a half day of business in the Bay Area or easy connection to afternoon Asia flights

Early or mid afternoon departure from SFO for a full half day in SFO with an evening arrival in STL.

The airplane could either have a long RON in STL or more likely rotate an evening flight out to ORD or IAD and a morning rotation in.

But that is just how I'd do it, UA certainly knows something I don't.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8870 times:



Quoting Steex (Reply 19):
We are sharing the love, what else would you call the STL-BNA flights?

Hey shhhhhhh! Don't let it out like we did get some love. I'm still trying to play the "ANet Victim" here and you're not helping me at all with comments like that! LOL!!!! Just kidding!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22840 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8797 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
The airplane could either have a long RON in STL or more likely rotate an evening flight out to ORD or IAD and a morning rotation in.

Perhaps the key is that those "other" flights aren't there yet. There's certainly merit to getting some presence - any presence - in the market and figuring out the details later.

If I were UA, I'd wait to see how all of the regional RFPs shake out before finalizing my STL schedule, since the amount and location of AX and G7 rotation is going to have a big impact on schedules at STL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1628 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8777 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 21):

Hey shhhhhhh! Don't let it out like we did get some love. I'm still trying to play the "ANet Victim" here and you're not helping me at all with comments like that! LOL!!!! Just kidding!

Oh, okay, I retract my statement then. But just remember that WN really wasn't going to add that flight, but all of us STL fliers convinced them to add STL-BNA just for you, Lexy!  highfive 


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15723 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8768 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
Perhaps the key is that those "other" flights aren't there yet. There's certainly merit to getting some presence - any presence - in the market and figuring out the details later.

True, but the rumor was that UA was adding mainline to every hub except DEN.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
If I were UA, I'd wait to see how all of the regional RFPs shake out before finalizing my STL schedule, since the amount and location of AX and G7 rotation is going to have a big impact on schedules at STL.

That is a big part of it, and sadly have so far kept the E-Jets away from STL.  banghead 



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Post contains links MrSTL : Off topic: Some EAS STL news-- Cape Air gets STL- UIN, MWA, Air Choice One gets STL- DEC http://www.kmox.com/New-air-service-...Lambert-and-Illinois-t
26 As739x : Unfortunatly that schedule would lead to UA's other problem. No gate space at SFO from 930a to 12 to 1230p. Any new arrivals will have to arrive abou
27 RoseFlyer : Very interesting timing. Definitely think this had more to do with AA though than UA wanting to close a station to only have to open it back up. I so
28 As739x : Never said it wasn't based on AA leaving the market. Just stating the timing is unique in any other service non-stop started from SFO. What makes a se
29 OH-LGA : Not to mention they don't even have space for Star Alliance carrier Asiana on the G side at that time of the morning - so they've been relegated over
30 FlyIGuy : LOL, I like how you used my grapevine lingo...I'm still waiting for the LAX announcement and wondering if UA will challenge WN on the DEN-BDL route t
31 BMI727 : You think that UA will fly STL-LAX? I certainly don't, especially considering the new WN service.
32 Portcolumbus : Not to take this thread too off topic, but any idea what aircraft Air Choice One would fly to Decatur?
33 FlyIGuy : There are not alot of mainline planes UA had but they have enough express aircraft to make it work if need be...It's a long shot but with UA adding s
34 BMI727 : Well, WN tried it before and couldn't make it work and are now trying again. If WN can't compete with AA on that route I don't see what UA can do any
35 FlyIGuy : The only way I can see UA making it work is for it to coincide with 1 time connections to Hawaii and Asia, but then why when they just announced SFO
36 BMI727 : If that was the big consideration, they would have flown to LAX instead of SFO or timed the SFO flight differently. Of course, lots of airlines have
37 Ramprat74 : As of right now. They're 30 STL employees on furlough at other stations, and 12 laid off on the street. I hope they bring all of them back to work at
38 FlyIGuy : 16 of them joined us at IAD but got word already to pack and start heading back... Just my 0.02
39 Steex : Sorry to borrow your wording! I didn't want to make it sound like I was the one bringing the information to the table and I didn't have time at that
40 LAXintl : Full schedule is: UA492 SFO-STL 1205-1750 A319 UA495 STL-SFO 1830-1941 A319
41 PC12Fan : Which is yet more evidence to me of AA's intentions from the start. Southwest is jumping all over this, and I heard that just today (10/22) UA is add
42 Platinumfoota : Good to hear, wish other stations would be as lucky.
43 Lexy : Trust me, I will never forget the generosity of the people in St. Louis and Dallas. I am forever grateful. LOL!!!
44 FlyIGuy : Naww, It's all good...just think its funny...I don't hold a grude, we're all fellow airliners here. Just my 0.02
45 LACA773 : What? Man, please check your information before posting it. UA's Asian hub bank leave in the late morning and early afternoon, not evening. It is ter
46 LambertMan : I'm hardly surprised to see this. St. Louis is too big of a market to not have any type of service to the bay area. American just giving up on it is b
47 Cubsrule : STL-BOS is a non-starter with WN in the market, and I would not be shocked to see WN start STL-LGA when they acquire 5-10 more LGA slots.
48 SANFan : I don't think many of us here on A.net thought the Bay Area service from STL would remain unfilled for long. I think the only question was whether WN
49 ERJ170 : Ya Dang RIGHT we still waiting... hoping to at least get back to service levels a couple of years ago.. let alone during the hub days!!!!
50 BMI727 : I didn't say UA's flights. There are some Asian flights that leave after midnight. I think that a B6 announcement in STL is now much more unlikely th
51 Lexy : I honestly believe this is likely to be closer to the truth than any other statement. They see WN filling in holes in the STL market like they are an
52 BMI727 : I hate to say it, but I think that all of the holes that are going to be filled have been filled. Maybe see a few more when the economy improves, but
53 TWFirst : They'll be using nine-seat Cessna Caravans for the DEC flights. I believe as with Great Lakes, if they can't reach a codeshare agreement with either
54 Cubsrule : I think that's basically right. I could see WN starting a few more routes, like AUS, but not much more. That's not such a bad thing, though. STL will
55 SANFan : Blood bath? I sure don't see a blood bath at Lambert; it's been a quick, simple filling in of the holes left by AA with hardly any overlap of service
56 LambertMan : Yeah, but the market is clearly better than those two. No doubt gaps have been filled but there is certainly more than enough room for a carrier to s
57 BigGSFO : Great news. I also know there was some mumbling in Burlingame about a red tailed airline strongly considering STL as one of their next markets given A
58 Cubsrule : It's better, but STL also (still) has more service. We're probably closer to the right level of service for the local market than we have been in fif
59 747fan : Now that UA has filled in on STL-SFO and WN on STL-LAX, I seriously doubt VX will be entering STL anytime soon. Even without these carriers filling i
60 BMI727 : Exactly. VX will not be coming. They want to skim the best markets like JFK-LAX/IAD, etc. STL quite obviously does not meet that. Of course neither d
61 SANFan : It IS hard to read VX anymore (well, actually, it has been since the beginning) but the only reason I can see for them to consider STL is if their fr
62 BigGSFO : I'm just repeating what was told to me by someone who works there. I find it a long shot but it was mentioned. Of course this was before UA and WN ju
63 LambertMan : Did Denver, Philadelphia, and Boston fit into Southwest's business model of using alternative, less congested airports? No, but they saw an opportuni
64 Cubsrule : If you look at it strictly numerically, there's probably a better case for STL than for ORD. St Louis is about a third the size of Chicago, but in ju
65 BMI727 : New airlines mention a lot of things...then reality sets in. But at the same time, even a slice of the Chicago market would be more advantageous for
66 ERJ170 : Well, I decided to take a gander at the top 5 unserved markets from SFO and wanted anyone to tell me the likelyhood of someone announcing the service.
67 Cubsrule : Why?
68 BMI727 : Because it is bigger, and probably higher yielding. The point is that I don't see VX coming to STL anytime soon, regardless of whether or not they ca
69 Cubsrule : So you'd rather have 5% of a 1500 PDEW market (75 passengers) than 100% of a 200 PDEW market (200 passengers)? The average o/w fare on STL-SFO in Q40
70 BMI727 : Well... not that small of a piece. There are other considerations such as codeshares, connections, and the demographics. I'd guess that the average V
71 Cubsrule : On ORD-LAX or ORD-SFO, VX likely would not offer more than 10 percent of the seats, and it'd likely be more like five percent. Sure, but it's not tru
72 MrSTL : I do not think it is outside of the realm of possibility for either VX or B6 to start service here. As far as business models go, there is one, to mak
73 Indy : No. The route is completely unserved. Just a couple of years ago it had NW and FL on it.
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