Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Turkish Airlines IST-GRU Nonstop  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10499 times:

Due to strong booking and success of flight in GRU, TK will introduce IST-GRU A343 nonstop servoce starting Summer 2010. The flight will operate 3 x week.

The current GRU service operates via DKR which will become dedicated IST-DKR.

Istanbul – Sao Paulo
TK015 IST1045 – 1900GRU 343 357 (14h15 flight)
TK016 GRU2345 – 1825+1IST 343 357 (12h40 flight)

The flight will be among the longest landing in GRU together with EK DBX-GRU, LY TLV-GRU, KE ICN-LAX-GRU and JAL NRT-JFK-GRU.

The nonstop flight will certainly attract more passengers and enhance yields. TK will also aim to maximise the fact that TAM would become official member of Star Alliance from April 2010.

Rgs,

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10382 times:

Will this be the longest 343 route then? It sounds too long for the 343 especially when headwinds are strong...


Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlinePutnik From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 229 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10250 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Istanbul -- Sao Paulo
TK015 IST1045 -- 1900GRU 343 357 (14h15 flight)
TK016 GRU2345 -- 1825+1IST 343 357 (12h40 flight)

I was wondering about these flight times. Wouldn't it be better to move everything about ten or even eleven hours ahead and perhaps achieve better connectivity at both ends?

TK015 IST2345 -- 0800+1GRU 357
TK016 GRU1245 -- 0725+1IST 146

I'm sure this is not a coincidence. Perhaps there are some flights to Far East destinations these flights are meant to connect to.



LH504 - we always remember our first :)
User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10221 times:



Quoting Putnik (Reply 2):

This would be good for connections to Europe. But there are lots of carriers to Europe, so they have to offer their strong network into Asia. And for this the flights to Americas have to leave early in the morning after taking pax from Asia/Middle East/India and arrive back in the early evening in the following day. But the GRU-timetable does not support connecting pax to INDIA as it arrives to late ot IST. It arrives at 18:25, but DEL and BOM are leaving at 18:45. I don't understand why they don't put the flight one hour ahead for catching those pax as well... Ideal would be
IST1045 – 1900GRU
GRU2245 – 1725+1IST (1 hour earlier than planned)


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10218 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Istanbul – Sao Paulo
TK015 IST1045 – 1900GRU 343 357 (14h15 flight)
TK016 GRU2345 – 1825+1IST 343 357 (12h40 flight)

Why the Turkish Daylight Saving Time is not considered in the schedule is beyond me, but it will certainly have an effect in that schedule, since the block times are not correct.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10212 times:



Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 3):
I don't understand why they don't put the flight one hour ahead for catching those pax as well... Ideal would be
IST1045 – 1900GRU
GRU2245 – 1725+1IST (1 hour earlier than planned)

Most certainly, they don't have slots for an earlier departure, but things get worse anyway, since they would actually arrive at 19:25 while Turkey is in DST.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2433 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10200 times:



Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 1):
Will this be the longest 343 route then? It sounds too long for the 343 especially when headwinds are strong...

IST-GRU is 10,535km.

A walk in the park for an A343.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10079 times:

-TK is Turkish Airlines not Turkish Airways
-TK's 343s have a range of a bit under 12000 km, but I wouldn't say it is going to be a walk in the park West bound in Summers because of Hot, Heavy conditions and runway restrictions at IST.
-On the other hand this was expected since in about 11 months from now TK's own 773 ERs will start to arrive with a Economy, Economy Plus and Business layout. This type will be better suited for the route than the two class 343s.

I have a feeling TK will wait till 773s to arrive to start this route non-stop.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3662 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10003 times:



Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
in about 11 months from now TK's own 773 ERs will start to arrive with a Economy, Economy Plus and Business layout.

So TK will offer Y+? I thought they would offer F on their 77Ws since the 9W planes have them. Has F been doing well for TK or have they come to the conclusion that offering F has not brought the necessary revenue? If they are to offer Y+, has any information been released to the public? Also, what will happen to the 9W planes once TK's own 77W enter service?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 9963 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The key is there's no space for parking an aircraft at GRU during the morning period. So an early morning arrival is not being considered for now.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
TK's 343s have a range of a bit under 12000 km, but I wouldn't say it is going to be a walk in the park West bound in Summers because of Hot, Heavy conditions and runway restrictions at IST.

They could run the flight with minor restrictions.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9907 times:

The longest nonstop routes in GRU including TK new service will be:

EK DXB-GRU: 7,592
LY TLV-GRU: 6,586 (the route is longer because the airplane deviates)
TK IST-GRU: 6,546
KE LAX-GRU: 6,159
KL AMS-GRU: 6,089

The longest direct routes:

KE ICN-LAX-GRU: 12,150
JL NRT-JFK-GRU: 11,489
CA PEK-MAD-GRU: 10,925

Quoting Putnik (Reply 2):
I was wondering about these flight times. Wouldn't it be better to move everything about ten or even eleven hours ahead and perhaps achieve better connectivity at both ends?

TK015 IST2345 -- 0800+1GRU 357
TK016 GRU1245 -- 0725+1IST 146

I'm sure this is not a coincidence. Perhaps there are some flights to Far East destinations these flights are meant to connect to.

But it is perfect for connections to China and many other destinations! I can also inform you that TK has become the major airline connecting Brazil and Central Asia, which is where the bulk of connections originate. Almaty is a route attracing a lot of connections from/to Brazil, for instance. GRU already has plenty of connection options to China/India but this is less so to Central Asia where TK is a major player.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
I have a feeling TK will wait till 773s to arrive to start this route non-stop.

I agree with you, but the A343 could do the job perfectly. The 773 would represent high yielding configuration and more capacity.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
The key is there's no space for parking an aircraft at GRU during the morning period. So an early morning arrival is not being considered for now.

LY could manage to get the morning landing slots in GRU and also found parking slots in the extremely busy airport and both LY and TK started GRU operations about the same time in May 2009. I do not see why TK would not find slots or parking space especially considering the flight operates 3 x week only. Even TAP could recently (September 2009) get the morning landing slots and parking space for daily operations in GRU (it previously operate daylight).

Rgs @ JFK,

[Edited 2009-10-23 19:41:01 by hardiwv]

User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2433 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9766 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
They could run the flight with minor restrictions.

 checkmark 

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
TK's 343s have a range of a bit under 12000 km

I never trust what an airline website says about their fleet in terms of range. Airbus has a much more accurate specification section.

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfam...0a340/a340-300/specifications.html

13,700km's is the maximum range of an A343 with maximum passengers. The A343 is more than capable of completing IST-GRU, at worst with a payload restriction.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9744 times:



Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
I have a feeling TK will wait till 773s to arrive to start this route non-stop.

I would think even the 77W would be pushing up to the limits of range on this flight, betting that luggage demands are high. 10,000km is probably ok when passengers have 20kg in baggage, but what if passengers carry 40-50kg?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
I can also inform you that TK has become the major airline connecting Brazil and Central Asia

I would think they are, but is there that much traffic between GRU and Almaty?


User currently offlineAsoRock From Bahrain, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

No one seemed to ask about what the DKR dedicated service will look like!! It's not a busy route and I doubt more than 30 pax were boarded to/from DKR.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9476 times:



Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
I would think they are, but is there that much traffic between GRU and Almaty?

I have information that in the first two months of operations the destinations with most traffic in TK GRU-IST were Turkey (there is a good O&D in the route) and in terms of connections the routes to Kazakhstan performed very well. In terms of Asia the destination which had most connections was PVG.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
I would think even the 77W would be pushing up to the limits of range on this flight, betting that luggage demands are high. 10,000km is probably ok when passengers have 20kg in baggage, but what if passengers carry 40-50kg?

Very good point, but bear in mind that sometimes EK replaces the B772LR with the B77W in DXB-GRU. This already happened several times (I remember this happening 2 times).

Quoting AsoRock (Reply 13):
No one seemed to ask about what the DKR dedicated service will look like!! It's not a busy route and I doubt more than 30 pax were boarded to/from DKR.

I know many Brazilian pax rejected TK service because of the stop-over in DKR. The nonstop service will certainly boost TK performance even further, especially in the high-yielding segment.

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 11):
13,700km's is the maximum range of an A343 with maximum passengers. The A343 is more than capable of completing IST-GRU, at worst with a payload restriction.

As mentioned, the A343 could do the job quite well for this long range flight. Perhaps the perfect aircraft would be the B772LR the same used by EK in DXB-GRU. What would be the difference in terms of performance for this route between both aircraft?

Rgs,


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8317 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9390 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 14):
As mentioned, the A343 could do the job quite well for this long range flight. Perhaps the perfect aircraft would be the B772LR the same used by EK in DXB-GRU. What would be the difference in terms of performance for this route between both aircraft?

IST-GRU is very much like EZE-AKL which has been done for years with an A343. I'm sure it will be fine.


User currently offlinePU803 From Israel, joined Aug 1999, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9305 times:

AR EZE-AKL route uses the A342, not 343.

Iddo


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9217 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
LY could manage to get the morning landing slots in GRU and also found parking slots in the extremely busy airport and both LY and TK started GRU operations about the same time in May 2009

That's what Infraero says, not me. It's available on ANAC website saying there's no space for aircraft parking between 6AM-12PM.
LY asked before and it's using it now. GRU now only receives requests for immediate turn around or arivals after 12PM that could stay for up to 6 hours, but there's no space for departure between 9 PM and 12 AM also.
Even after LY, AA asked for the right to land an extra flight and got it, and it was the last one. To do it in one day of the week, JJ will be flying a single GRU-POA-GRU with A332 to also relief the patio.
And you can expect even a more busy airport next January as WebJet, Gol, Trip, Passaredo and Tam keep adding new domestic services.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8317 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8910 times:



Quoting PU803 (Reply 16):
AR EZE-AKL route uses the A342, not 343.

Even more reason to think the A343 shouldn't have any problem on the route  Smile


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8673 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
-TK is Turkish Airlines not Turkish Airways

We fixed that, thanks for the remark.

Felipe
As Forum Moderator



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePU803 From Israel, joined Aug 1999, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8626 times:

May be I wrong, but I believe A342 has more range than A343...

Iddo


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8591 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
That's what Infraero says, not me. It's available on ANAC website saying there's no space for aircraft parking between 6AM-12PM.

Honestly, I don't think that's true. It's not like there are flights arriving all the time during the whole morning.


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7813 times:



Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 21):

I think the same as Dellatorre... This information can't be right, as the schedule shows the TK aircraft parked there from 19:00 - 23:45


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7811 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 15):
IST-GRU is very much like EZE-AKL which has been done for years with an A343. I'm sure it will be fine.



Quoting PU803 (Reply 16):
AR EZE-AKL route uses the A342, not 343

Or you may consider LA 343 MAD-SCL which is 100 miles more than IST-GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
That's what Infraero says, not me. It's available on ANAC website saying there's no space for aircraft parking between 6AM-12PM.

Infraero does that to increase its political weight. The reality is different.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
And you can expect even a more busy airport next January as WebJet, Gol, Trip, Passaredo and Tam keep adding new domestic services.

This exaplains the rapid increase in domestic pax traffic in GRU, while international pax traffic has stagnated or even declined.

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 21):
Honestly, I don't think that's true. It's not like there are flights arriving all the time during the whole morning.

I agree with you. Still plenty of slots in the morning, especially after 9.00am.

Rgs,


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7795 times:

Both LA and IB fly MAD-SCL with 343s. This is about 100 miles longer than IST-GIG, and MAD in summer is definitely hot and relatively high.


AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
25 Borism : IIRC DXB-GRU deviates quite a bit too. I don't remember where I saw a real flight path (probably some TR on A.net), but it went via Egypt, North Afri
26 Qantas744ER : Borism, The LY flights deviate because their not allowed to overfly north african countries. The DXB flight is purely because of the best routing and
27 Post contains links Hardiwv : Correct. There is a trip report on TK GRU-DKR-IST: Turkish TK 16: 29/APR/09: GRU-DKR-IST: J Cabin (by Abrelosojos Jul 13 2009 in Trip Reports) But no
28 Airbazar : You may be right, I don't think TK has the newer A343E version.
29 Post contains links Thenoflyzone : Yes. But TK doesnt operate the A342. yes they do. They have 5 A343E's (A340-313X) and 4 A343-311s. http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/T...Turkish%20A
30 Airbazar : That's still not a 313E.
31 Thenoflyzone : From what i understand reading about the A343E, it is often mislabeled (if you will) as A343X. Thenoflyzone
32 Dennys : definitely the A343X is the way for TK to reach IST - GRU N.STOP ! dennys
33 Soups : I wouldn't be surprised if DKR-IST will be downgraded to a 737 or A321 Will their 737s have the range?
34 Thenoflyzone : Well, let's see. IST-DKR is 5,321km's, (GC route). Therefore, scratch the A321. As for the B737, only the -700, and even then, the westbound flight m
35 Hardiwv : I think this explains the A330 operating IST-DKR. It seems clear that TK will use the A34X or A343E to operate IST-GRU as the aircraft is entirely su
36 AF022 : Is there really enough traffic to make this work?
37 Thenoflyzone : Well looking at the schedules on TK's website, it will be an A332 3x weekly. TK627 IST0730 - 1155DKR 332 257 TK628 DKR1310 - 2240IST 332 257 Thenofly
38 TK787 : Today TK used a 343 on the route.
39 Thenoflyzone : Yes, i was talking about the dedicated IST-DKR-IST flight next summer. Since people were asking what equipment they will use, A332, B737 or A321. The
40 Putnik : I was wondering whether it would be possible to combine DKR with some other destination in Mediterranean and make 737 workable? Would the range still
41 AF022 : Yes, but flight goes thru to GRU. I can't imagine DKR can support an independent flights from IST.
42 Dennys : I had a look in Amadeus GDS yesterday , they will operate IST DKR GRU 2 X weekly dennys
43 Hardiwv : TK015/TK016 continues 3 weekly. As you said, TK could perhaps combine DKR with another destination, I personally think that another destination in We
44 Stylo777 : probably they keep the A332 or even put in an A333 (once they're delivered). IST-DKR is too much for the narrow bodies TK actually has in the fleet.
45 Addd : That's interesting - Brazil to Central Asia is not the first O&D pair that springs to mind, is it? If so, what drives the demand? I know Central Asia
46 Hardiwv : As you said, there are no obvious ties. However, the fact that connections between Brazil and Central Asia are not readily available means that TK ha
47 Addd : .. but there are tons of European carriers flying to ALA, TSE. TAS, FRU and some other Central Asian airports... yes, TK is a very important player i
48 AF022 : I think TK should just dump DKR when GRU goes nonstop. The route is too long for narrowbody, too thin for widebody, and it wouldn't make sense to link
49 Stylo777 : why not? For example Nigeria is a big market, LOS is already served, but what about PHC or ABJ. Another alternative would be a triangle flight like I
50 YULWinterSkies : Maybe the A343 will 'test' the route for a few months, and if TK feels they can increase the loads and/or the yields, the 77W will take over.
51 AF022 : DKR-LAD is probably an 8-hour flight. I can't imagine it makes economic sense to link the two together.
52 TKfan : So far TK's website shows DKR three weekly 332 on Tue, Fri and Sun and three weekly GRU same days but with 77W on Wed, Fri and Sun
53 Viscount724 : DKR-LAD is 2310 nm. If nonstop service existed on that route it would be about 5 hours, not 8 hours.
54 AF022 : OK - 5 hours - still not an ideal triangular routing.
55 Hardiwv : Are you sure TK will operate the B77W in GRU? Last time it was the A343 instead. I think the best market to combine DKR with widebody would be ABJ or
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
TK IST-LIS Nonstop posted Thu May 12 2005 16:56:14 by Hardiwv
US Airways To Resume Nonstop PIT-IAH Service posted Mon Feb 14 2005 17:55:35 by A330323X
US Airways Is Discontinue Nonstop From PIT-LGW posted Fri Jul 18 2003 14:16:38 by ScottysAir
TK Upgrades IST-DKR-GRU To 4 X Week posted Thu May 28 2009 15:17:56 by Hardiwv
Turkish Airlines To Fly to GRU (via DKR) In 2009 posted Wed Oct 8 2008 06:33:35 by Hardiwv
Qatar Airways To Start DOH-EWR Nonstop? posted Tue Aug 12 2008 09:18:48 by Iluv747400
British Airways Plans EZE-LON Nonstop By 2009 posted Fri Aug 24 2007 03:59:00 by Argentina
Qatar Confirms GRU-DOH Nonstop posted Tue Sep 19 2006 14:38:49 by Hardiwv
IB Increases MAD-GRU To 12 Weekly Nonstop posted Mon Sep 11 2006 10:24:31 by Hardiwv
Turkish Airlines Starts IST-BEG posted Tue Mar 14 2006 01:17:01 by Flyboy_se
A Question For Turkish Airlines Experts posted Thu Oct 27 2011 13:29:14 by machnumber
Turkish Airlines: Why Both 737-800 And A320? posted Tue Dec 7 2010 12:38:51 by DIJKKIJK
Turkish Airlines Announces Guangzhou posted Mon Nov 29 2010 00:35:47 by behramjee