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Why Move Service Road At STL?  
User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 635 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

My friend was telling me this morning that the service road that leads to the freight area near Fedex, UPS and 30L & 30R has been moved further from the field and a new fence installed. Can anyone tell us why? This used to be a great spotting approach.

Thanks for the info

Tchau

DA-


They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5232 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

May have something to do with the rumored Chineese cargo hub perhaps?


The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2646 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
May have something to do with the rumored Chineese cargo hub perhaps?

I'm not sure if it would or not. They added a whole new fence line. Basically extended it from what he told me.

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2630 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
May have something to do with the rumored Chineese cargo hub perhaps?

Bingo.



DMI
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

That is a routine thing that seems to be happening as security as airports is ever increasingly tightened. Some things were done immediately and less urgent ones have been scheduled and done gradually when maintenance was to take place, or funds made available. Seems spotters are being moved further and further away, which is too bad because the additional security is not really aimed at them.

I don't know this particular field as I have only flown there once. But also as engines have gotten bigger and more thrust and therefore more jet blast, service roads have also been moved further from runways. The whalejet with its larger wing span and engines that are further out from the fuselage have also necessitated service roads and structures to be moved further from the taxiways and runways.

[Edited 2009-10-25 13:50:21 by pnwtraveler]

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2623 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 3):

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
May have something to do with the rumored Chineese cargo hub perhaps?

Bingo.

The article in the Post this morning made it sound like the Chinese cargo hub is in danger - of course, I take most things the Post writes with a grain of salt.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

I'm sure it is with everything else in this economy. However it will still be built and the airport will then have to raise fees to finance it.

Worst case it might lure some 121 cargo from companies like ATI. Haith is really gouging on the cargo ramp with is why ATI moved to the pad just east of the East Terminal (oddly enough, the original location of the cargo ramp).



DMI
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5232 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2473 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):


The article in the Post this morning made it sound like the Chinese cargo hub is in danger - of course, I take most things the Post writes with a grain of salt.

Your are talking about the St Louis Post-Disgrace, right?



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1764 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2437 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):

The article in the Post this morning made it sound like the Chinese cargo hub is in danger - of course, I take most things the Post writes with a grain of salt.

I saw a presentation on the Chinese cargo hub at a seminar recently and, unfortunately, only came away with questions about why the Chinese would ever locate it at STL. Without going into detail, I can understand why it would be in trouble based on the information presented there.


User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2390 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
Chineese cargo hub



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
e Chinese cargo



Quoting Steex (Reply 8):
Chinese cargo hub

- Would that be a single cargo carrier out of China or a group operating a cargo hub that is HQ'd in China?

David



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1764 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2375 times:



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 9):
- Would that be a single cargo carrier out of China or a group operating a cargo hub that is HQ'd in China?

At this point, that is very undefined. Essentially, STL has been pitching to the Chinese government that STL would be a good place for cargo service from one of the Chinese carriers (given typical government influence in China, presumably the government would choose a carrier).

STL is attempting to play to the fact that mainline China carriers (so eliminate CX, CI, and BR) have very little market share flying cargo between the midwest and China. However, they also have to try to convince the Chinese government and freight forwarders that there is some benefit to using STL when the vast majority of the freight they're attempting to target is actually destined to/from Chicago, Atlanta, and Dallas (among others). As such, they would not only be competing against those cities (particularly ORD), but other midwestern airports - including BLV just across the river - that could serve the same role.

It should also be noted that the term "hub" is being very loosely in the sense of an airline hub. The presentation I saw indicated that the STL group realizes that demand for daily services does not exist, and also that St. Louis does not generate enough cargo for the return flight to China. As such, they have shifted their focus to obtaining a triangle or tag-on involving LAX. So by "hub," they mean a twice weekly flight through LAX coming in and all of the cargo leaving by truck, with the STL folks specifically targeting cargo trucking to/from the Chicago, Atlanta, and Dallas markets.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2285 times:



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 3):
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
May have something to do with the rumored Chineese cargo hub perhaps?

Bingo.

No. From what I hear, the localizer antenna for 12L is being relocated further east.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2272 times:



Quoting Steex (Reply 10):
It should also be noted that the term "hub" is being very loosely in the sense of an airline hub. The presentation I saw indicated that the STL group realizes that demand for daily services does not exist, and also that St. Louis does not generate enough cargo for the return flight to China. As such, they have shifted their focus to obtaining a triangle or tag-on involving LAX. So by "hub," they mean a twice weekly flight through LAX coming in and all of the cargo leaving by truck, with the STL folks specifically targeting cargo trucking to/from the Chicago, Atlanta, and Dallas markets.

Thanks, pretty much what I expected. I would put the STL Chinese-hub as DOA unless the City gives the carriers very cheap landing fees, and with cheap or no landing fees, there is little benefit to the city to have the station except for ancillary services.

Not only will competition be steep, there are other airports with lesser fees equally suited to play a midwestern cargo hub. I can even see how Memphis/Louisville would be a better choice to tie in with the other major air cargo carriers.



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2259 times:



Quoting CVG2LGA (Thread starter):
My friend was telling me this morning that the service road that leads to the freight area near Fedex, UPS and 30L & 30R has been moved further from the field and a new fence installed. Can anyone tell us why? This used to be a great spotting approach.

Well the road is within the runway safety area of both runways.


User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2231 times:



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
No. From what I hear, the localizer antenna for 12L is being relocated further east.

That makes the most sense. Thanks for the reply!

As for the China cargo hub. I'll believe it when it happens. Thanks everyone for your help.


Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2203 times:



Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 14):
As for the China cargo hub. I'll believe it when it happens.

That is about my thinking on it too.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFlyBoy84 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 384 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

If it's the road I think you're talking about, that's the one that extends north from Brown Road at Natural Bridge; it's James S. McDonnell Boulevard!

IIRC, this was planned long before any talk of a Chinese cargo hub! I thought it was part of the masterplan, but I could be wrong!


User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

I think it's a redesign of the approach for both 30L and 30R. Between I-170, you can see additional poles and what-not that are going to be replaced on the structures for the 30R lighting. Before the AA pullout, AA was going to build a new MX hangar near Signature fbo and demolish their existing hangar near runway 29. All plans are put on hold after the 2001, now the recession. Not sure why the airport continued with the expansion of Mcdonnell between Brown and I170 access.

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