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Alitalia, JV With AF-KLM & Delta By Summer 2010  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Rocco Sabelli of Alitalia today declared that the Italian carrier will join the joint venture formed by Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines in the coming months.


"Before the 2010 summer season, we will enter the joint venture with Air France-Klm and Delta. We will become part of a group that moves 100 million passengers worldwide and that has a market share of more than 25% on the connections between North America and Europe'' said Alitalia managing director Rocco Sabelli, during the opening of the T1 Terminal in Fiumicino for Alitalia and its partners.

(....)

http://www.agi.it/business/news/2009...soon_j_v_with_air_france_and_delta



another source

Breakeven for Alitalia in sight
Italian airline to join in Air France-Delta joint venture

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubri...visualizza_new.html_991375404.html

[Edited 2009-10-27 11:38:01]

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4983 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

I assume that this will offer AZ even more opportunity to piggy back on DL/AF sales forces to gain more North America traffic?

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6756 times:

Considering that DL is the largest airline between the US and Italy, this offers huge upset for AZ. It also will allow DL to further piggyback on AZ's presence in the NE (BOS, NYC) to Italy.

Not sure of the formula but AZ will also undoubtedly share in DL/AF/KL's profits on the Atlantic in return for helping sell the Skyteam JV on the best routing, even if it does not involve AZ.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6682 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Considering that DL is the largest airline between the US and Italy, this offers huge upset for AZ.

Is DL the largest airline or the largest US airline between the US and Italy?


User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1895 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

Very interesting news, thanks for sharing.

I believe that this addition into the AF-KL-DL joint venture will force Alitalia to accelerate their refurbishing of the J class and the introduction of the new level of service that's been discussed before... This is nothing but great news indeed.

Joining such a group will surely put AZ in the right track, even though it seems as it's where it is right now.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Alitalia will need a major overhaul of its offering and service if they intend to be considered on-par with DL/AF/KLM in the Joint Venture. FCO int'l check-in and security were the most chaotic operations I have ever seen, and AZ staff were the most unprofessional and unhelpful people I have ever encountered in air travel. Granted this was during their bankruptcy crisis last fall, but still, major changes are needed here.

User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1895 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5649 times:



Quoting MadDogJT8D (Reply 5):
FCO int'l check-in and security were the most chaotic operations I have ever seen, and AZ staff were the most unprofessional and unhelpful people I have ever encountered in air travel.

I agree with you. However, this seems to be on the works as well.

Posted on the italian forum, Aviazionecivile.it, it's the new branding AZ is using to place their Rome - Milan (FCO-LIN) air bridge service. They called it ROMAMILANO/TRECENTOSETTEMIGLIA and they introduced it with the opening of Terminal 1 at FCO, which will only be for Alitalia and AF-KL flights, domestic and International.

http://www.aviazionecivile.com/vb/showthread.php?t=102768

Scroll through the pages in the forum and see the new branding, which I think it's very nice. They mention the renewal of the fleet and the introduction to the service between Rome and Milan, competing against the Frecciarossa service that the train gives.

Here's the link to an article related to the story (in Italian):

http://iltempo.ilsole24ore.com/roma/...alitalia_inaugurato_terminal.shtml

All it says is that they're happy to have joined the AF-KL group and that the opening of T1 at FCO gives AZ finally a home.

All together puts Alitalia in a very promissing place. Allegedly they'd be reaching break-even after who knows how many years! Way to go!

Cheers



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1895 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

These are the images I'm talking about:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1466/nikon013m.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5671/nikon008.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7381/nikon007.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1284/nikon012.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6885/nikon027.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9865/nikon018.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2/nikon020.jpg

Taken from Skycrapercity.



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

Quoting 797 (Reply 6):
the opening of Terminal 1 at FCO, which will only be for Alitalia and AF-KL flights, domestic and International.

International Schengen only, for now.
Once the new pier A (south-east side of the airport) will be ready in 2-3 years, then AZ will concentrate all their flights (domestic, international UE & extra-UE) to T1 together with Air France, KLM and I wish other SkyTeam partners like Delta, Korean, CSA, Aeroflot...



another pic



[Edited 2009-10-28 06:18:31]

User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

G'day

Quoting LIPZ (Thread starter):
Rocco Sabelli of Alitalia today declared that the Italian carrier will join the joint venture formed by Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines in the coming months.

Do Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines know about this proposed joint venture? I may not read all aviation related news, but if this is true this would be real news. This is supposedly to counter the BA-AA-IB alliance that is yet to be approved by the EC.

Last I heard AZ is still losing lots of $$, we will know more when the third quarter results will be published early next month.


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5373 times:



Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 9):
Do Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines know about this proposed joint venture?

Yes, they know.

In a recent interview (23 Sep 2009) to Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, Chief Executive Officer of Air France-KLM

Are you looking at further acquisitions? The Japanese media have been talking about your possible interest in Japan Airlines, alongside Delta…
I don’t want to comment on market rumours. It’s possible that JAL, which is in a very difficult situation, may have suggested to Delta that it take an equity stake simply in order to get American to respond. Iberia did the same thing with Lufthansa and Air France, in an attempt to get the British to put up an offer.
The fact remains that our joint venture with Delta on North Atlantic routes is an extremely worthwhile operation that we will strive to develop on other international routes - in China, South America, or wherever. It will also be strengthened when Alitalia is integrated into the joint venture from next summer.


(page 3)
http://corporate.airfrance.com/filea...i_Gourgeon__Les_Echos23Sep09uk.pdf


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5359 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 3):
Is DL the largest airline or the largest US airline between the US and Italy?

don't egg me on... the answer would be yes and yes.

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 9):
Do Air France-KLM and Delta Air Lines know about this proposed joint venture?

since AF bought a stake in AZ, I do believe they are aware of it.  Smile


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7549 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5239 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 2):
Considering that DL is the largest airline between the US and Italy, this offers huge upset for AZ. It also will allow DL to further piggyback on AZ's presence in the NE (BOS, NYC) to Italy.

Actually since they split profits 50/50 on all routes... AZ will be the winner in this as they don't even have to fly the routes to make some money.

So does this mean we will see DL/AF/KL forking out more money to once again re-do the JV signs at all the airports?



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8572 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5214 times:
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Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Actually since they split profits 50/50 on all routes... AZ will be the winner in this as they don't even have to fly the routes to make some money.

On the other hand it is a profit sharing and risk sharing venture they also split any losses , so it could mean that AZ could discover a new way to lose money without even having to fly the routes .  Wink



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently online797 From Venezuela, joined Aug 2005, 1895 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5150 times:



Quoting LIPZ (Reply 10):
The fact remains that our joint venture with Delta on North Atlantic routes is an extremely worthwhile operation that we will strive to develop on other international routes - in China, South America, or wherever. It will also be strengthened when Alitalia is integrated into the joint venture from next summer.



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
so it could mean that AZ could discover a new way to lose money without even having to fly the routes .

I don't think it will go this way. The new Alitalia is way different from the one we are all used to see. Now, no government BS is longer there... all there is, is a group of the top businessmen in Italy managing a new airline. According to what I've been reading in the Italian journals, results are showing up... And for a newborn airline to be showing a positive trend (even though still in the negative side of the chart) is a good accomplishment.

Moreover, joining the AF-KL-DL joint venture will aid them with more resources, more market share, and an obligation to improve their services and pair them up with their partners.

I am very optimistic by all these new developments. I really hope they pull it of and become the AZ I've been dreaming of for many years!



Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous!
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4959 times:



Quoting 797 (Reply 14):
The new Alitalia is way different from the one we are all used to see. Now, no government BS is longer there...

All the indications I have seen report that Alitalia is still losing money, so I guess not that much has changed.


User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

So what does this mean? On any N. America - Europe flight, that the revenues from the flight will be split 33/33/33 between DL/AF-KL/AZ?


Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8572 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4920 times:
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Quoting EMB170 (Reply 16):
So what does this mean? On any N. America - Europe flight, that the revenues from the flight will be split 33/33/33 between DL/AF-KL/AZ?

I think that it is more likely that revenues and risks will be related to the proportion of carriage provided by each carrier , eg , if DL operates 49% of the JV capacity , AF/KL 40% and AZ 11% (before anyone challenges me I want to make it clear that these figures are for demonstration purposes only - I dont know what the current respective Europe-US capacity provided by each airline is ) then the profits ( if any) or losses ( if any ) would be allocated accordingly .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
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