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Landing A Cessna 172 At SFO  
User currently offlineJawed From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 482 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 19428 times:

How difficult (or is it even allowed?) would it be for a private pilot to land a Cessna 172 at SFO? From the Cessna pilot's perspective it would be exciting and also interesting, though larger airliners such as 747s, might consider it to be a nuisance if they have to yield to such a small plane. What are the procedures for doing something like this? I don't think I've ever seen such a small plane at SFO.

[Edited 2009-10-28 17:51:08 by jawed]

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21515 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19375 times:

ATC will probably only allow it during quiet hours unless you make prior arrangements, which you would do by calling up the tower and asking. If things are quiet, you could probably make your request with approach and see what happens.

Other than that, it's not going to be much different from landing at any other airport.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19337 times:

It's a public airport that receives FAA funds so it would be allowed. You would likely have to pay a landing fee and that usually keeps the folks with your idea away unless they have a real business reason to land there. I had to go to Miami Beach for a conference and inquired about landing at KMIA since it was closest. They said no problem but the fees were way high so I opted for a different airport.

Now would you be welcomed and would ATC make it difficult for you? That probably depends on what time you tried to go there. For the most part I would say they would accomodate you as best they could. A lot usually has to do with ATC's comfort level in the pilots ability to follow their instructions....i.e. if you sound like you know what you're doing they will make it easier for you as they would feel there was less likelihood of you causing a major screw up.....making a heavy go around etc...

I have landed at KTPA more than once with no issue what so ever. ATC guys at Class B and C airports are pros and they can work in a small plane w/o destroying the system....if they want to. Given the difference in size and speed light aircraft are only in the same pattern as an airliner for a fairly short time...basically down the final. On take off they usually turn you away from the airport and the C172 would be low and out of the jets way in no time given the short take off roll. The same applies to the approach for the most part they sneak you in tighter and lower than an airliner....turn you onto the final and hope you land quick and get out of the way.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19276 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 2):
if you sound like you know what you're doing they will make it easier for you

And if you sound like a dummy they'll make it harder for you? How?

SFO has no slots-- right? If not, how could they legally bar you from landing?


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19242 times:

Are you interested in SFO specifically, or just using it as an example of a large international airport?


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User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19229 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 2):
I have landed at KTPA more than once with no issue what so ever. ATC guys at Class B and C airports are pros and they can work in a small plane w/o destroying the system....if they want to.

Controllers are very competent, but if it's during a rush it can and does cause havoc in the system. TPA is not a terribly busy airport compared to many other large airports, and outside of thunderstorms generally has good WX. TPA is much more likely to be welcoming than ATL, ORD, SFO, LAX, etc. When busy VFR aircraft are (quite) often told to remain clear of the Class B airspace, and for good reason. It doesn't have much to do with the controller "wanting" to work a light aircraft, it has to do with interference with IFR traffic, primarily much higher performance jet aircraft. If someone really really wants to fly into a place like SFO in a C-172 as a PASEL, I would call ahead and ask what a good time is to visit. Better yet, unless you really need to go there, I would avoid it. Understand that the tempo of operations and complexity of directions are frequently orders of magnitude higher than most C-172 Private pilots are used to, and screwups are potentially more serious. If you still want to go and you aren't EXTREMELY comfortable with controlled, busy airports, take an experienced CFI with you, at least the first time. Make sure you have the taxiway diagram out when you land, because the directions will come fast and furious; that is not the time to become familiar with the runway and taxiway configuration. Also understand that if you are renting by the hour, the taxi out and taxi in can be very long and, therefore, expensive.

I am not telling anyone unequivocally not to do it; I am advising pilots to realistically assess their experience level before going. Linke anything else in aviation, planning is paramount.

Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 2):
Given the difference in size and speed light aircraft are only in the same pattern as an airliner for a fairly short time...basically down the final.

And that's enough to mess up the entire flow into a busy airport. The problem is that our final approach speed is frequently well in excess of a light aircraft's maximum speed, never mind the proper final approach speed. A C-172 at SFO (or comparable) during a rush is like stepping off an escalator packed with people and standing there. It backs up everything and gets everyone else irritated with you.


User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19203 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 3):

Well let's see. My first sentence says they can't keep you from landing legally.... believe me they can and will make it harder for you if you sound like you don't know what you are doing.

Examples for you to ponder....

1. If you are VFR they can deny you entrance into the Class B airspace by saying they are busy......strictly their call.
2. They can vector you everywhere and/or make you hold for a period of time that makes you want to go away or run out of fuel....whatever comes first.


User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19189 times:

From a controller's perspective at a busy Tower, if you absolutely, positively have to land/take off at a busy airport; bring your "A" game. Like PGNCS said: have the airport diagram out and ready to use. Do not be "chatty" on the freq. and LISTEN. The only conversation you should be having is with me, not your pax. Also, read back the hold short instruction in its entirety. Your are not impressing anyone if you think sounding like Maverick, from "Top Gun" is cool. Other than that, have fun.


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19185 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 3):
And if you sound like a dummy they'll make it harder for you? How?

The ATC and Pilot have a common goal, to get you where you need to go. Pro pilots can read an ATC's mind and both are normally on the same page, whereas a Sunday flyer into a big Class B airport might not always be on the same page. A controller might have to explain his thought process and intentions prior to avoid confusion. A pro or seasoned flyer can pick up on the ATC's thought process and plan of action by experience, and sometimes even the tone of the controllers voice.

If ATC detects the pilot isn't confident or doesn't sound familiar with the area or local procedures, they will make them low priority until the guaranteed risk of "zippering" them onto final between two jets is diminished or significantly lowered by slower traffic flows or a gap up the STARS. A good pilot can work with the controller without questions to make everyone's life easier, even if that means turning the 172 onto a very short final to not let him slow down the entire localizer for 10 minutes. The Sunday flyer would most likely question why the ATC has him coming in low and relatively fast for his aircraft on a short modified radar base.



No info
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 19182 times:

File IFR, then it's not an issue of whether or not they "feel" like working in a VFR arrival. SFO is a public use airport; you have no less right go land there than the airlines do.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19139 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 6):
Examples for you to ponder....

1. If you are VFR they can deny you entrance into the Class B airspace by saying they are busy......strictly their call.
2. They can vector you everywhere and/or make you hold for a period of time that makes you want to go away or run out of fuel....whatever comes first.

MI5Flyer, I agree with your general observations on this one. ATC really is genuinely accomodating when possible, but if you are VFR, their first line of defense is to deny entrance to the Class B. I don't think ATC is trying to be punative per se, I think they are just trying to keep aircraft seperated. Knowing what to say and do in busy airspace makes all the difference (like you point out in your TPA example); people unsure on the radio or slow on the uptake are more likely to be denied access to the Class B.

If you hold an instrument rating you can file IFR then they will work you, but that doesn't mean that it will be easy: if they are in the middle of a rush holding or lengthy vectors are probable. In my aircraft, we frequently are run downwind more than 20 miles at some times at busy airports. That is annoying in my MD-80, it takes forever in a C-172. The flip side (see my earlier comments) is that if they happen to do that to you, it will jam up the final for the whole trip back down the approach losing numerous landing opportunities for the jets. ATC is generally cooperative, but knowing what's going on and what's expected of you as a pilot at all times are imperative.

One of the best times to visit some busy airports is at night (caution for curfews). If comfortable with night flying (and certificated pilots should be), and your schedule permits that frequently can work out best (especially for your first time). This obviously is not a good plan at JFK, but then again, there's never a good time to visit JFK!  Smile


User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19137 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 5):
And that's enough to mess up the entire flow into a busy airport. The problem is that our final approach speed is frequently well in excess of a light aircraft's maximum speed, never mind the proper final approach speed. A C-172 at SFO (or comparable) during a rush is like stepping off an escalator packed with people and standing there. It backs up everything and gets everyone else irritated with you.

I agree that you really need to assess your skill level before going. I did mention that I considered KMIA and that's plenty busy. There is actually a GA Center there north of 8L/26R I believe it is.. just for visitors where they let you park for 2 hours and collect your fees.

Jet traffic at an LAX or ATL would never see the C172 likely approaching the airport from a perpendicular angle at 1,000 AGL...entering a midfield downwind for the outer parallel and landing with a short approach between traffic as noted by the earlier poster. ATC are pros and they would get the spacing right to make it happen...that's their job. I would think that given appropriate winds at SFO they would bring a small VFR guy in on the set of runways not in use to keep them out of the pattern. Perhaps straight in to the 1's while the jets make the standard approach to the 28's.

[Edited 2009-10-28 19:09:45]

User currently offlineRcair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1308 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19137 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

I used to fly into Stapleton pretty regularly. Never tried DIA - too far out in the boonies for any reason to - and nuthin there. Used to fly people down to catch their commercial flights - can't imagine doing that at DIA....and now I'm not current - ran outta money.

I remember one time going into Stapleton - 17 (this was before they added the parallel 17/35), on final they kept saying "'triple7-eight', expedite" (I think that was the call sign...). Finally I was flying the darn thing as fast as I could (and go down) and I said - "I can't." They said "Say type." I said "Cessna 206." They said "Immediate climbing left hand turn to 090."

There was a 737 on my tail (s-turning like mad to stay behind according to my rear seat passengers - not sure they really knew - have a hard time believing a 737 would bother).

They sent me to the end of the earth to the east and brought me into 8, I think - all I remember was the huge crosswind...

All for a birthday dinner at the 94th Aero-squadron restaurant (it was great!).

That would have been - oh - 1982?

Today? DIA, SFO, LAX - not this kid....

[Edited 2009-10-28 19:08:00 by rcair1]


rcair1
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19118 times:

Contact Signature flight support at 650-877-6800 to find out what the landing fee and any parking/handling fees are. This alone might discourage you from flying into SFO. I used to work at Butler Aviation in SFO in 1989, and back then the landing fee was $20 for anything under 10,000 pound MGLW and $8 parking for the first 8 hours or fraction thereof. I know it's a lot more than that today.

If the fees don't scare you away, check with your local flight service station. They will be able to give you information about flying into SFO.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19077 times:



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
A good pilot can work with the controller without questions to make everyone's life easier, even if that means turning the 172 onto a very short final to not let him slow down the entire localizer for 10 minutes.

That is what I was getting at, summed up much better than I said it. If you are flexible and demonstrate the ability to work with controllers, you will be much more successful.

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 7):
Do not be "chatty" on the freq. and LISTEN. The only conversation you should be having is with me, not your pax. Also, read back the hold short instruction in its entirety. Your are not impressing anyone if you think sounding like Maverick, from "Top Gun" is cool. Other than that, have fun.

From my perspective listening up and using your correct callsign are huge issues here. If you elect to do this as a pilot, you need to brief your pax not to distract you or expect any conversation from you. This is why airline pilots have sterile cockpit, you should too. Saying "rog" to a hold short clearance, failing to use your callsign, or blabbing endlessly on the radio will make you no friends. Also a BIG one: when you change frequency LISTEN BEFORE YOU TALK! If you don't you will likely step on someone else's transmission eating up valuable airtime that the controller needs to be talking during.

Quoting Jhooper (Reply 9):
File IFR, then it's not an issue of whether or not they "feel" like working in a VFR arrival. SFO is a public use airport; you have no less right go land there than the airlines do.

No question; you also have the right to hold and get vectored all over creation like the airlines do. Just because you can do something doesn't make it smart. It may or may not be appropriate for a given pilot to go to SFO (or anyplace else), but it requires genuine candor with yourself about your capabilities.


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19092 times:

As long as you don't end up like this:


http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/2/5/0336520.jpg



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19033 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 11):
I agree that you really need to assess your skill level before going. I did mention that I considered KMIA and that's plenty busy. There is actually a GA Center there north of 8L/26R I believe it is.. just for visitors where they let you park for 2 hours and collect your fees.

I did see your MIA reference, and you sound quite prepared for the challenges, and obviously planned ahead. Most (all?) big airports do have GA facilities, but many are still rather expensive. My point was not to absolutely say no, but to think about mitigating the threats and traps that await you if you really (really) need to go. Most cities have more convenient airports for GA traffic to use; an hour taxi time from the north ramp in ATL to 10/28 is an expensive way to build time!  Smile

Fly safe and fly smart everyone!


User currently offlineG4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19026 times:

I've done it once, in a C-206. Had to ferry a customer pilot to back SFO from LAS (VGT actually) and the 206 was all we had available that afternoon.

I don't remember it being difficult. Filed IFR for the last part of the trip, probably from Fresno. When I was handed over to approach, we worked out a visual arrival where I was brought up from the south, well west of, but parallel to the localizers for the runways 28. Approach had to create a hole in the flow big enough for slowpoke me to fit into. At about Woodside, approach cut me over to the final to 28L. Just kept the speed up (about 140 knots) to the middle marker and did a no-flaps landing. That was that. This was a late afternoon arrival.

Was definitely fun. Had dinner at some restaurant near the FBO, then filed IFR out of there (runway 1L night departure) towards Lake Tahoe, and from there a very pleasant VFR return to VGT.

I've also done LAX in small planes several of times - one each in a Warrior, a Turbo Arrow, and a Seminole. No problems and again, a lot of fun.



"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19012 times:

Oh, and another thing, as you are taxi-ing around the airport; if you become lost or confused just say so and ask the controller for a progressive. I would rather have you be honest with me then have you wind up someplace I don't want you. Like nose to nose with a Heavy. Also, if you are rated for such, fly in/out IFR. You will receive better service and it allows ATC to plan around you.


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18919 times:



Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 6):
believe me they can and will make it harder for you if you sound like you don't know what you are doing.

So by "make it harder for you" you mean "delay you". If you're VFR and you sound dumb, they'll deny entry to the Class B for... an hour, say? Two hours?

VFR aircraft destined SFO are probably supposed to contact NorCal when they're still... 20 miles out? If they do, NorCal would be the one to deny entry to Class B? Once NorCal lets you in, they'll hand you off to the tower and you'll land promptly?

If you're IFR, they can vector you, but can they make you wait for an hour?


User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18903 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 19):
VFR aircraft destined SFO are probably supposed to contact NorCal when they're still... 20 miles out? If they do, NorCal would be the one to deny entry to Class B? Once NorCal lets you in, they'll hand you off to the tower and you'll land promptly?

If the VFR aircraft is flying below the Class B airspace, they could contact the Tower seven miles out. And that's when you would hear " Cessna 123 remain outside the San Fransisco Class B airspace due to volume."



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18893 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 19):
Quoting MI5Flyer (Reply 6):
believe me they can and will make it harder for you if you sound like you don't know what you are doing.

So by "make it harder for you" you mean "delay you". If you're VFR and you sound dumb, they'll deny entry to the Class B for... an hour, say? Two hours?

They can deny entry until you don't sound dumb anymore.

Quoting Timz (Reply 19):
If you're IFR, they can vector you, but can they make you wait for an hour?

They can vector you (or hold you) for an hour, yes. How much fuel have you got?


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3006 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18854 times:

Do flight schools cover landing fees at large airports?

I train at a school that flies in and out of SLC. We are in contact with all sorts of planes throughout the day. Students can request to do as many landings as they want, granted Class B isn't busy. The ATC guys here are really nice and usually accommodate during non rush hour times. So who keeps track of our landings? Throughout our flight training we are constantly in and out of B airspace.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineMI5Flyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18855 times:

At any large airport (B or C) you never talk to the tower until your on the final in most cases. NorCal would be the ones determining your abilities in this case I would say - yes....

Unless you can get close enough to call the tower from underneath the Bravo as the other poster said.....I'm not sure this would be the best way to be welcomed though......

[Edited 2009-10-28 19:53:50]

User currently offlineN53614 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18806 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 3):
And if you sound like a dummy they'll make it harder for you? How?

Yeah.

If you sound like a rookie on the radio you will be treated as such.

This includes, but isn't limited to:

-missing radio calls
-taking forever to readback instructions
-not sounding confidant.

Jawed, where in the Bay Area do you fly out of?



B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B73G B738 B739 B742 B752 B772 A320 A319 CRJ2 DHC8 E135 E140 E145
25 Post contains links FX772LRF : Before the new terminal at IND was built, I remember going spotting on the roof at what is now the old terminal. You had a pretty clear view of 14/32,
26 Acey559 : I've flown into some pretty busy airports in all types of GA airplanes. I flew into PWK less than two weeks after I got my PPL, and MDW about a week l
27 Timz : Everyone is agreed that any IFR-rated pilot can file IFR to SFO any time he wants-- right? So I prepare to depart Napa IFR, in clear weather, let's s
28 MI5Flyer : The use in holding you. 1. To make you change your mind and go away. 2. To accommodate you at a time of their choosing when they feel you can't do any
29 P3Orion : No, they will not. If the Flow program is for volume, you'll be issued a time. If you sound like a novice, Approach may put you into holding until th
30 P3Orion : If he is IFR, that will not happen. He will be sequenced onto Final. It just might not be as quick as he'd like.
31 Jawed : I don't have a pilot license yet, so this is something I'd like to do in the future when I'm much more experienced. I would probably fly out of PAO. I
32 N766UA : What? Why would a controller deliberately waste his and your time in a childish attempt to make you "change your mind?" If you're VFR, they just tell
33 MI5Flyer : That's true he would be in far better shape IFR - you'd have to sound really dumb before they would hassle you. VFR raises a flag to them right off th
34 MI5Flyer : So you think they would just tell you to go away VFR for the hell of it? They need a reason....holding you makes it at least appear busy. You might h
35 P3Orion : You'd be surprised...When I worked at ASH ATCT, a VFR Tower in NH with a lot of student pilots, I had a CFII (flew a MO20) argue with me (during a to
36 MI5Flyer : I don't doubt there are some knobs out there. Just saying that a light aircraft VFR arrival request at SFO probably perks up ATC's ears a little faste
37 P3Orion : It does...But, if someone is IFR into ORD be it a C172, BE20, G4, B737 or H/A340 they will be sequenced and vectored to final. The VFR FLIB will prob
38 ATCtower : Just call us beforehand. If CD has time for you, they will get you in to approach who will hand you off to tower. I have quite a few landings at DEN,
39 Swiftski : This thread is getting ridiculous with people's conspiracies and armchair theory. When you file a flight plan you can request to land at SFO if you wi
40 ATCtower : Everyone likes to armchair what they dont know. You can request a landing via flight plan and the airport will know about you. You WILL pay the landi
41 Jetmatt777 : VFR clearances are not destination based but rather airspace based. A VFR clearance consists of a clearance in to, out of, or through airspace. ATC c
42 Swiftski : Yup!
43 B595 : All right, you got me curious: What does FLIB mean? I'm going to guess "F----n little irritating b----d". Close?
44 P3Orion : That's pretty close...That's pretty close indeed.
45 413x3 : SLC also has its own smaller runway for GA traffic though, you probably aren't landing on the big runways where the commercial jets land
46 Captaink : Surprised no one mentioned JFK. How do you think the ATC guys there would handle a C172 during peak arrivals.. HAHA
47 Aeroflot777 : Yeah, but the "GA" runway that you are referring to is actually fairly long, so it is quite heavily used by commercial traffic during rush hour. I ha
48 Arffguy : The only qualification I have seen is "No Student Pilots" And pilots have told me that the FBO fees are very steep. "FLIB"-What is this? A slam again
49 JoeCanuck : While not nearly as lofty as SFO, I've landed a 172 and Cherokee at YYC. To cover my bases, I called ahead to ask their opinion. They advised me on a
50 Goldenshield : SLC is actually quite busy. In the case of GA, they use 17/35, and occasionally 16R/34L. Of course, since 16R/34L is closed right now, getting it to
51 Rampguy : I think the same case would apply in Atlanta in regards to landing a Cessna at Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l Airport as opposed to either Peachtree or Ful
52 P3Orion : Lighten up Francis, it's a joke.
53 AirPacific747 : I've done a flyby over rwy 12/30 at Copenhagen Kastrup only about 1 meter above the runway.. even during the middle of the day it is allowed if they a
54 ATCtower : The key here is NOT BUSY. If you radio me when I am working simultaneous approaches and loaded miserably from the TRACON, you will receive the standar
55 N766UA : What are you on about? The reason they have is that they're too busy, and nearly 100% of controllers will tell you that in plain english. "Remain cle
56 MI5Flyer : Read back through the posts and see if you can come up with the point that you have obviously missed. Try reply 40 for a start.[Edited 2009-10-29 08:
57 Post contains links HarrisonRuess : No class B airports in Canada. Our busiest, like YYC, YVR, YYZ, etc are class C. Though it doesn't make a huge difference - class C requires a cleara
58 Cptspeaking : I've flown into JFK a few times in light GA aircraft - once in a 172 IFR and once in a Turbo Arrow VFR. Now, without pumping my own tires, I've got e
59 ARFFdude : Where do you work that the control tower is responsible for collecting landing fees? At most every airport I'm familiar with airport management deals
60 P3Orion : I'm curious as well. I've never, ever, heard of a controller say that. Is that part of your SOP? That's not our responsibility.
61 Pliersinsight : Best advice I read in the thread. Do your homework on the airspace and field, go at night during a slow time. I'd only add to ask tower to turn down
62 ATCtower : We just pass it up the chain and I presume a report is given to airport management. Not SOP, but common.
63 DiamondFlyer : Sounds like MCI (except for the at night part). While it is a Class B airport, I've never had any issues going in VFR. Sure, they have to work you in
64 Timz : He said you can try to file a VFR flight plan to SFO, and you started talking about VFR clearances. But is there such a thing as a VFR flight plan? W
66 Aeroflot777 : Your message did not go through. Aeroflot777
67 Fx1816 : Just because the TRACON has let you into B Airspace does not mean that you will land promptly it just means they let you in. If you are VFR then you
68 Brucek : I am one of the C172 fliers, and am instrument rated. I have flown into DEN (I am based at BJC, about 15 miles west of DEN) at night time, and would
69 Falstaff : I have seen small planes like C172s and the like fly into DTW on occasion. It usually doesn't happen when it is very busy, but it does happen.
70 Jetstar : One time I flew my C-150 into EWR. Our JetStar was there for a short layover and the pilots called me and said the nose wheels needed to be changed, s
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