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Why Is the 735 So Popular With Airlines in Eastern Europe?  
User currently offlineRwy31R From Saudi Arabia, joined Aug 2001, 454 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 11117 times:

I have noticed that many eastern European carriers are fond of operating the classic 737, particularly the 500, any known spacific reason?

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23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1596 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11072 times:

Efficent, reliable and right sized aircraft with plenty of them on the market! Perfect combination!

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11065 times:

Cheap to buy / lease as there are many available retired by the likes of UA & CO, and while they are not as efficient as the NG's, they are much more efficient and newer (= less maintenance cost) than the Tupolev's & Yakovlev's they replace, so the lower purchasing cost offsets the higher operating cost compared to the even newer NG model.

I guess the 735 is nearer in capacity to the TU134 & YAK42, of which there are large numbers to replace. I think the CASM & RASM advantage must be huge over these types, while probably paid for, are likely to be maintenence intensive, not to mention they dont have to worry about noise regulations for operating into Europe and for attracting Western customers who will probably feel safer flying a Boeing "like LH do" as opposed to some old Russian aircraft.



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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24860 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10897 times:



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 2):
Cheap

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Values for the 733 and especially the less desirable 735 have plummeted in the last couple years as mass retirements have occurred amongst US and European carriers of the type.



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User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10785 times:

They are cheap to acquire and will only become cheaper thanks to CO, WN, and UA....basically the only thing they have to worry about are rising maintenance costs for the 737 Classics, retrofit them with winglets and paint over the eyebrows and their good to go...


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User currently offlineN537FX From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10550 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 4):

I never understood why airlines did that. Is it a cosmetic issue? Do they really make the plane look bad?


User currently offlineYankeejuliet From Jamaica, joined Sep 2008, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10539 times:
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cockpit crews will get aquainted with western types quicker.

User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1523 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10503 times:



Quoting N537FX (Reply 5):
I never understood why airlines did that. Is it a cosmetic issue? Do they really make the plane look bad?

If you're talking about the windows they do it because it saves weight. Plugging them saves the weight of triple-paned glass and to be honest, they aren't really needed for situational awareness anymore with EFIS and better ATC. As for the blended winglets, that one is pretty obvious.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10492 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 4):
They are cheap to acquire and will only become cheaper thanks to CO, WN, and UA....basically the only thing they have to worry about are rising maintenance costs for the 737 Classics, retrofit them with winglets and paint over the eyebrows and their good to go...



Quoting N537FX (Reply 5):
I never understood why airlines did that. Is it a cosmetic issue? Do they really make the plane look bad?

It reduces the maintenance of the cockpit windows by a substantial margin...the original eyebrow windows were added because the CAA (predecessor to the FAA) felt that the 707 didn't have enough visibility while turning in the traffic pattern at an airport. Updated FAA regs made them unnecessary.



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User currently offlineRwy31R From Saudi Arabia, joined Aug 2001, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10369 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
the original eyebrow windows were added because the CAA (predecessor to the FAA) felt that the 707 didn't have enough visibility

I always wondered why the low planes had them (737,M80 etc.). Never thought they would really improve visibility otherwise all aircraft should have some.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 4):
retrofit them with winglets and paint over the eyebrows

Do they merely paint over them or actually remove the glas sand fill in the gaps?



"Saudia Three Five hold short Three One Right"
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1259 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10350 times:



Quoting Rwy31R (Reply 9):
Do they merely paint over them or actually remove the glas sand fill in the gaps?

The glass is removed and the openings plugged.


User currently offlineN537FX From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10296 times:



Quoting Acey559 (Reply 7):

Thanks for the answer. I'm a big blended winglets fan, I was just wondering about those extra windows.


User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9211 times:

When Estonian Air ordered their (back in 1994) then 735 was almost the only option available. A319 was still on the factory line (mayden flight in 1995) and all other alternatives were bigger. Here, the size matters...  Wink


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User currently offlineFun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1025 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9135 times:

Who's buying all of CO/UA units? I see CO has sold many of them, but I'm not aware of the buyer.

User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7451 times:

I stand corrected, so they plug the eyebrows because it saves weight, one could also argue cosmetics also


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User currently offlineAero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7266 times:


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Looks funny plugged - as someone painted the outlines so one could remember the shape.  Silly


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6961 times:

I think it goes all for the small capacity of a "full-size" airplane. For MALEV they are quite popular. By the way, once I heard a story of a MALEV 737-500 being shown in a very unusual movie. I can't vouch for this story's veracity though. Anybody knows anything about it?

User currently offlineOV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 909 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6962 times:



Quoting Treg (Reply 12):
When Estonian Air ordered their (back in 1994) then 735 was almost the only option available. A319 was still on the factory line (mayden flight in 1995) and all other alternatives were bigger. Here, the size matters...

OV got the 735 as a replacement for the Tu-134. Most of the airlines in Russia currently acuiring 735s, are using it to replace/supplement the TU3 as well. The operating costs are probably similar (a crew of 2 instead of 4!), yet it offers ~60% more seats.


User currently offlineOV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 909 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6878 times:



Quoting Yankeejuliet (Reply 6):
cockpit crews will get aquainted with western types quicker.

One would think that, but the case of Aeroflot flight 821 shows the opposite. Cutting corners in training for a new type can lead to lethal consequences.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6168 times:

Cheap, Cheap, Cheap. And major quantities. Also, remember, that many of these airlines the safety is not priority, so they don't care about the higher maintenance costs. Also, there are so many 735's in the world...

[Edited 2009-10-30 09:35:17]


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User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

Are the 737's being retired by CO and UA finding homes in Eastern Europe?, or are most simply going to the dessert? How much is a used 737 worth?

User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5410 times:
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The older ones are plugs and new production models do not have them.
When the 717's were being built and they stopped making them with eye brow windows it actually cut a couple days off of production time.


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5251 times:



Quoting OV735 (Reply 17):
Quoting Treg (Reply 12):
When Estonian Air ordered their (back in 1994) then 735 was almost the only option available. A319 was still on the factory line (mayden flight in 1995) and all other alternatives were bigger. Here, the size matters...

OV got the 735 as a replacement for the Tu-134. Most of the airlines in Russia currently acuiring 735s, are using it to replace/supplement the TU3 as well. The operating costs are probably similar (a crew of 2 instead of 4!), yet it offers ~60% more seats.

Didn't OV get their first B737s (and F50s) from then-shareholder Maersk?

Of course it's worth pointing out that OV is now in process of dumping 737s for CR9s, again more as part of SK fleet renewal than anything.


User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4845 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 22):
Didn't OV get their first B737s (and F50s) from then-shareholder Maersk?

No, Maersk became a shareholder only in 1996. The first 735s were bought directly from Boeing (via ILFC).


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