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Virgin Choose RR For A330s  
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6941 posts, RR: 63
Posted (5 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8356 times:

Probably not the most surprising news this year but still something for me to smile about on a dull Friday!  bigthumbsup 

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/new...9/301009_virgin_atlantic_order.jsp

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8187 times:



Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Probably not the most surprising news this year but still something for me to smile about on a dull Friday! bigthumbsup

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/new...9/301009_virgin_atlantic_order.jsp

Indeed not a surprising order.  Wink One would imagine that it may also have to do with an eventual cancellation/conversion of their remaining A346's on order.

Dull Friday PM ?

With another A380 to be handed over in little more than 1 hour, I would not call this Friday Dull. Maybe for you as it will be a EA7200 powered bird.  Wink

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7941 times:



Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
. Maybe for you as it will be a EA7200 powered bird.

Not to mention it's a French one.  Wink

Bit of an off topic question here but is the RR offered on the A332F?



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1002 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7886 times:



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 2):
Bit of an off topic question here but is the RR offered on the A332F?

Yes, along with the PW4000


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7839 times:



Quoting Raggi (Reply 3):
Yes, along with the PW4000

Cheers, nice to know. No GE though?



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1002 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7659 times:



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 4):

AFAIK no, not yet. A bit puzzling if you ask me.

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (5 years 21 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Isn't the GE on the 330 the poor cousin with the least orders, so not really worth the effort to certify, also include second hand value?

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6941 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 hours ago) and read 3241 times:



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 2):
Bit of an off topic question here but is the RR offered on the A332F?

Not only is it offered but it has won the majority of the orders so far.

Quoting Col (Reply 6):
Isn't the GE on the 330 the poor cousin with the least orders,

In fact sales of A330s with GE and PW are pretty even. GE have around 22% and PW around 24%. In terms of deliveries, GE are about 25 ahead of PW but PW have a much bigger backlog..


User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 hour ago) and read 2786 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 7):
In fact sales of A330s with GE and PW are pretty even. GE have around 22% and PW around 24%. In terms of deliveries, GE are about 25 ahead of PW but PW have a much bigger backlog..

Thanks PM. Is it me, or do the Rollers sound quieter on the 330/777 in the cabin. I always find that the PW on the 330's whine and the big GE on 77L/77W are huge vibrators!


User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years ago) and read 2703 times:



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 4):
Cheers, nice to know. No GE though?

GE motors are in fact available for the A332...Air France uses them.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6941 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2636 times:



Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 9):
GE motors are in fact available for the A332...Air France uses them.

The first A332 made its maiden flight with GE.

GE have offered the CF6 for the A330-300 and the A330-200 from the start and many airlines such as Air France, KLM, Qantas, Aer Lingus, Qatar, China Airlines and many others have chosen them. But they declined to offer an engine for the A330F.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2446 times:



Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
Indeed not a surprising order. One would imagine that it may also have to do with an eventual cancellation/conversion of their remaining A346's on order.

Oh say it's not so, I like A346s and an A330 to do not have that VS feel to them like an A346!


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6941 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2318 times:

A wee bit off topic but if the recent threads about Turkish ordering 2 x A330F and converting options for 3 x A330-300 are correct then that's probably more good news for RR.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6941 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1910 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 12):
A wee bit off topic but if the recent threads about Turkish ordering 2 x A330F and converting options for 3 x A330-300 are correct then that's probably more good news for RR.

Confirmed:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/new...9/021109_turkish_flag_trent700.jsp

3 x pax + 2 x F.



 bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13301 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1754 times:
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Quoting PM (Thread starter):
Probably not the most surprising news this year

Not at all. But that is due to RR having an excellent product in the Trent 700.

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 4):
No GE though?

Not on the freighter

Quoting Raggi (Reply 5):
A bit puzzling if you ask me.

Not at all. Look at the "hot" takeoff perfomance of the CF6 on the A330. "Hot" is normally flat rated thrust to 85F. It is 59F for the A330 CF6!  Sad Why? The core has been pushed too much. Also, that performance only happens with a well maintained high pressure compressor.

Note that an A330F is far more likely to be operating near MTOW than an A332 or A333. (Which are more likely than many airframes to be near MTOW.) So every bit of performance is required. While the Pratt has less thrust, it actually has better hot/high performance than the GE. In particular, after a few years of compressor wear and tear.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 9):
GE motors are in fact available for the A332...Air France uses them.

They are available. GE was willing to do a major upgrade on the CF6 for the tanker order. Expect them to re-enter the market in a big way if Northrop wins the tanker. (Actually, are the engine contracts still valid? Or were they thrown out to?)

What GE needs to do with the A330 CF6:
1. New fan. It is way past due for a blade change out. This will cut fuel burn over 1%!  wideeyed 
2. Improved compressors. Something has to be done to cool the core (it is pushed too hard for the current thrust, hence the poor hot/high). I expect BLISKS (integrade blade/rotor compressors). I'm not sure if just the low compressor (easier to do, but less advantage, about 0.5% reduction in fuel burn), or the high compressor (perhaps not the last one or two blade rows to save on the risk).
3. Improved thermal barrier coatings (to allow more time at heat and some higher max thrust).
4. Improve the Low Pressure turbine blades. This will help with the fan/compressor.

To compete versust the Trent 700, the GE needs to cut fuel burn by about 2%! (2.5% IIRC, sorry, but I'm going from memory to compete versus the latest RR kit that is coming out). Most of the improvement should be on the cold side. Most of the improvement could be done on the low spool, so it wouldn't surprise me to see the whole spool re-optimized with cooling tweaks in the combustor and high pressur turbine.

Until GE can match the currently offered Trent fuel burn and hot/high performance, it will have a very tough time selling on the A332F.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1716 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
the currently offered Trent fuel burn and hot/high performance

Formidable insight as ever. Many thanks.


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1610 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 15):
Formidable insight as ever. Many thanks

Exactly, thanks for that and also to the others who answered my question. At least us Brits have something to take a bit of pride in thanks to RR.



One Life, Live it.
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