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OAG Changes 10/30/09: AA/DL/F9/FL/NW/UA/WN  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7696 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

This compares what is for sale this week for the stated period versus what was for sale the prior week...NOT the prior year.

How to read:
AAA-BBB 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
AAA-BBB 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
AAA-BBB 3.2>5.6 In some big posts I don't spend the time rounding fractional roundtrips. Fractional roundtrips are usually caused by day of week cancellations, but can also result from a schedule change during the month that is averaged.



AA
DFW-CHS 2>3 JAN-APR
DFW-CID 7>6 DEC-
DFW-DAY 4>3 DEC-
DFW-HOU 10>8 JAN-FEB
DFW-LBB 10>9 JAN-MAR

DL
THESE ARE FOR JAN-
ATL-OKC 7>5
CVG-BOS 4.7>3.9
CVG-BWI 3.9>2.9
CVG-CHS 0.9>0.0
CVG-CMH 4.9>3.9
CVG-CUN 1.0>0.4
CVG-DCA 4.7>3.9
CVG-DTW 5.0>6.0
CVG-EWR 4.7>3.9
CVG-HTS 1.7>1.9
CVG-LGA 5.6>4.7
CVG-LIT 1.9>1.0
CVG-MCI 3.7>2.9
CVG-MCO 4.0>3.0
CVG-MSY 1.9>1.0
CVG-PHL 4.9>4.0
CVG-RDU 3.9>2.9
CVG-RSW 3.0>2.0
CVG-SDF 4.9>3.9
CVG-SEA 1.4>1.0
CVG-TYS 2.9>1.9
CVG-XNA 1.0>1.9
CVG-YUL 1.9>0.9
CVG-YYZ 3.7>2.9

F9
DEN-SDF 0>1 APR-
OKC-MCO 0>5/WK JAN-
OKC-TPA 0>2/WK JAN-

FL
LEX-FLL 0>2/WK FEB-
LEX-MCO 0>4/WK FEB-

KE
LAS-ICN 3/WK>0 MAR-

NW
BDL-PBI 0>1 JAN- (XFER FROM DL?)
BDL-RSW 0>1 JAN- (XFER FROM DL?)
CHA-MEM 2>3 JAN-
DTW-YYZ 5>6 FEB-

UA
DEN-HLN 2>1 FEB-
DEN-LIT 3>2 FEB-
DEN-MCO 4>5 FEB-
DEN-TUS 4>5 FEB-
ORD-BOS 9>8 FEB-
ORD-ICT 4>5 FEB-
ORD-LAX 10>11 FEB-
ORD-PHL 8>7 FEB-
SFO-STL 0>1 FEB-

WN
ALL CHANGES FOR MAR-
DEN-BDL 0>1
DEN-BOI 0>1
DEN-DTW 0>1
DEN-IAD 0>1
DEN-OKC 2>3
DEN-ONT 0>1

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9568 times:

Is KE cancelling LAS?


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9510 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
Is KE cancelling LAS?

It appears that way. Unusal considering Asian carriers get decent loads, but I'm sure the yields have plummeted at LAS lately. Even SQ pulled out quickly.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9314 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 1):
Is KE cancelling LAS?

Surprising. Still bookable in many places, but considering this thread usually "foresees", I'm sad. KE has problem filling up this flight, although return is fine because of LAX stop. LAS is like a tomb for many Asian carriers till now. PR is still running, though.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9104 times:

WN
ALL CHANGES FOR MAR-
DEN-BDL 0>1
DEN-BOI 0>1
DEN-DTW 0>1
DEN-IAD 0>1
DEN-OKC 2>3
DEN-ONT 0>1

.....and the UA/F9 fans still belive that WN isnt going to try to kick one of them out of DEN?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9063 times:
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Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 4):
.....and the UA/F9 fans still belive that WN isnt going to try to kick one of them out of DEN?

If you're determined that we have to go over this old ground again - they let Frontier slip through their fingers.

Frontier isn't "just Frontier" anymore and isn't "just DEN."

And since Southwest CEO Kelly has said that the outcome is probably the best for both entities, he's obviously aware of that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4069 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9015 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DL
THESE ARE FOR JAN-
ATL-OKC 7>5
CVG-BOS 4.7>3.9
CVG-BWI 3.9>2.9
CVG-CHS 0.9>0.0
CVG-CMH 4.9>3.9
CVG-CUN 1.0>0.4
CVG-DCA 4.7>3.9
CVG-DTW 5.0>6.0
CVG-EWR 4.7>3.9
CVG-HTS 1.7>1.9
CVG-LGA 5.6>4.7

Enilria - your table is hiding the fact that DL is doing away with mainline service on CVG-LGA and CVG-BOS. Unless I missed something, mainline is gone from all CVG to Northeast flying. The only mainline stations left from CVG are hubs (ATL/SLC), in Florida and out west. Ah, and Paris.



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User currently offlineBlr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8999 times:

CVG-MSY going to be once daily - hate to see frequency reduction to MSY. As it looks...Its a matter of time CVG will look similar to STL

User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8947 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 6):
Enilria - your table is hiding the fact that DL is doing away with mainline service on CVG-LGA and CVG-BOS. Unless I missed something, mainline is gone from all CVG to Northeast flying. The only mainline stations left from CVG are hubs (ATL/SLC), in Florida and out west. Ah, and Paris.

Also don't forget to mention that a lot of flights that were CRJ9s are now CRJ7s, so there is very limited first class seating out of CVG now. Even though the CRJ9 and CRJ7 have about the same number of seats, DL appears to be moving those out of CVG to other stations as well.

I really wish DL would just pull the plug once and for all. That way other carriers will step it up a notch, like AA adding mainline back to CVG-DFW. Being a regular traveler out of CVG, this slow death is nauseating as the quality of service being provided by DL is becoming more and more nothing but a small and cramped coach seat on an RJ with no opportunity for upgrades, etc. So much for a consistent DL experience. If I have to connect, which flying out of CVG it is more and more the case, at least I would like to have a better service experience.

However, on one bright note, it looks like the CVG-CDG flight was upgraded from a 763 to a 764.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8937 times:
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Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
If you're determined that we have to go over this old ground again - they let Frontier slip through their fingers.

Frontier isn't "just Frontier" anymore and isn't "just DEN."

And since Southwest CEO Kelly has said that the outcome is probably the best for both entities, he's obviously aware of that.

mariner

How dare you upset Mariner!


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8824 times:
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Quoting N7371f (Reply 9):
How dare you upset Mariner!

"Upset"? Strange.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
F9
DEN-SDF 0>1 APR-
OKC-MCO 0>5/WK JAN-
OKC-TPA 0>2/WK JAN-

There is a fun one which falls right outside the scope of what Enilria does with these good threads, a one-off, and Im not sure where else to post it.

On November 13, Frontier is flying SAN-LAX and a revenue flight, just as, this week, they are flying OKC-MCI as a one-off.

I assume OKC-MCI has something to do with the aircraft reallocations happening this week, but I can't work out SAN-LAX.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8640 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 6):
Enilria - your table is hiding the fact that DL is doing away with mainline service on CVG-LGA and CVG-BOS. Unless I missed something, mainline is gone from all CVG to Northeast flying. The only mainline stations left from CVG are hubs (ATL/SLC), in Florida and out west. Ah, and Paris.

To me, that's shocking. I've always thought that if/when DL pulled down the CVG hub, they'd still keep some mainline to Northeast strongholds like LGA, JFK, and BOS. By early January, DL mainline will be down to about 35 flights a day at CVG on a good day. I'm actually surprised by how much of that is made up by Florida flying... Are those mostly onward connections, and not CVG O/D? I find it hard to believe that with the Cincinnati business market, mainline flights to Florida are more valued than mainline flights to other large business centers, such as the NE markets being cut.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8608 times:



Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 11):
I find it hard to believe that with the Cincinnati business market, mainline flights to Florida are more valued than mainline flights to other large business centers, such as the NE markets being cut.

High-density, low-yield Florida routes need large capacity planes. High-yield, high-frequency Northeast routes don't.



a.
User currently offlineBinMonster From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8497 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):
However, on one bright note, it looks like the CVG-CDG flight was upgraded from a 763 to a 764.

Only for a week, back to 767-300 1NOV.

Below are the mainlie flights for 07JAN Thursday "31"

FLIGHT DEPT EQPT
1711 CVG ATL 7:00 737-800
1751 CVG SLC 8:00 MD-90
1129 CVG SFO 8:55 737-800
1121 CVG LAX 9:00 737-800
1539 CVG LAS 9:00 737-800
1257 CVG MCO 9:00 MD-88
1165 CVG FLL 9:00 MD-90
1205 CVG SAN 9:05 737-800
1403 CVG MIA 9:05 MD-88
1243 CVG DEN 9:10 737-800
1507 CVG TPA 9:15 MD-88
1543 CVG RSW 9:15 MD-88
1211 CVG PHX 9:20 737-800
1419 CVG SLC 12:20 737-800
1753 CVG SLC 14:00 MD-90
1096 CVG FLL 14:05 MD-88
1249 CVG MCO 14:10 MD-88
1907 CVG ATL 14:30 MD-88
1605 CVG ATL 16:30 MD-88
1467 CVG SLC 16:45 737-800
1207 CVG MCO 16:45 MD-88
1407 CVG TPA 16:50 MD-88
1059 CVG RSW 16:50 MD-88
1374 CVG LAX 16:55 737-800
1125 CVG SEA 16:55 737-800
44 CVG CDG 18:20 767-300
1131 CVG DEN 19:55 MD-90
1713 CVG ATL 20:05 MD-88
1581 CVG LAS 20:05 737-800
1273 CVG LAX 20:10 737-800
1248 CVG SFO 20:10 737-800

I wonder how long it will take to see DC-9 back at CVG.

It would be nice to see some mainline metal to MSP and DTW


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5232 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8475 times:



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 7):


Its a matter of time CVG will look similar to STL

Without WN, F9, YX and FL. I wonder what LFC will be the first to set up shop at CVG? And how far can DL cutback without "inviting" some competition?



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineRafflesking From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8336 times:



Quoting BinMonster (Reply 13):
Below are the mainlie flights for 07JAN Thursday "31"

Wow! Not even BOS keeps mainline to CVG now!


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8263 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DL
THESE ARE FOR JAN-
CVG-HTS 1.7>1.9
CVG-XNA 1.0>1.9

Whats the likely reason for these increases, considering the general trend off CVG reductions?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7696 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7881 times:



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 2):
It appears that way. Unusal considering Asian carriers get decent loads, but I'm sure the yields have plummeted at LAS lately. Even SQ pulled out quickly.

It looked like it was already suspended for the upcoming Winter and now the resumption is either delayed or CXLD.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 6):
Enilria - your table is hiding the fact that DL is doing away with mainline service on CVG-LGA and CVG-BOS. Unless I missed something, mainline is gone from all CVG to Northeast flying. The only mainline stations left from CVG are hubs (ATL/SLC), in Florida and out west. Ah, and Paris.

Don't doubt it. I think the CVG hub is DEAD DEAD DEAD.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
On November 13, Frontier is flying SAN-LAX and a revenue flight, just as, this week, they are flying OKC-MCI as a one-off.

Probably a reposition related to a sports charter.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 16):

Whats the likely reason for these increases, considering the general trend off CVG reductions?

Could be as simple as aircraft positioning. Who knows. It means little in the scheme of things.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7696 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7881 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
Enilria does with these good threads

BTW, thanks  Smile


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7835 times:



Quoting Blr380 (Reply 7):
CVG-MSY going to be once daily - hate to see frequency reduction to MSY. As it looks...Its a matter of time CVG will look similar to STL

Well you right in a way. IIRC I read on here that WN is going to start MSY-STL with 1 flt/day.

MD


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7696 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7433 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DEN-BDL 0>1
DEN-BOI 0>1
DEN-DTW 0>1
DEN-IAD 0>1
DEN-OKC 2>3
DEN-ONT 0>1

Just to analyze the route list for WN:
BOI Current F9 route
DTW Current F9 route
IAD Former F9 route and UA hub
OKC Current F9 route
ONT Former F9 route

F9 ties to all those routes in that they are either current routes or probably under consideration for resumption like MSY which was recently announced to be resumed by F9.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7381 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
F9 ties to all those routes in that they are either current routes or probably under consideration for resumption like MSY which was recently announced to be resumed by F9.

I have a hard time imagining Frontier going back to a couple of those.

I suppose ONT might be possible, but not necessarily from DEN.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRampGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

Below is what I wrote in the last OAG thread which went unresponded to. So I'm reposting it here:




On another note, effective November 1, DL is once again yanking the only 757 on ATL-IND-ATL and from what I can find, it's going to ATL-SAT-ATL. Can anyone tell me if that is the case, if so, why is SAT getting our 757? With the exception of Tuesday and Wednesday, that flight went out with very high passenger loads. Certainly past the MD88 capacity.


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6712 times:



Quoting RampGuy (Reply 22):

On another note, effective November 1, DL is once again yanking the only 757 on ATL-IND-ATL and from what I can find, it's going to ATL-SAT-ATL. Can anyone tell me if that is the case, if so, why is SAT getting our 757? With the exception of Tuesday and Wednesday, that flight went out with very high passenger loads. Certainly past the MD88 capacity.

Loads don't matter to DL. In their grand plan, since the world revolves around ATL, eventually all planes greater than an RJ will be routed solely on ATL to ATL, and all other cities will be RJs.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6492 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 23):
Loads don't matter to DL. In their grand plan, since the world revolves around ATL, eventually all planes greater than an RJ will be routed solely on ATL to ATL, and all other cities will be RJs.

I dont know. DTW seems to be getting alot of new service at ATL's expense.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 DLDTW1962 : Let us not forget the canceling of some 30 flights from LAS. With them doing this. DTW will not have any US flight to LAS. Only to PHX, CLT, PHL.. The
26 SurfandSnow : WOW! Even more stations coming online from DEN, including the likes of DTW and IAD, where WN is quite weak. This leaves BUR as the ONLY WN station to
27 WorldTraveler : While you and others would like to see DL fail at CVG just as others have elsewhere, you clearly have not been reading what I have been saying since
28 Enilria : You make a good point on IAD. That's probably the only thing they've ever added there since they opened it. Not so sure about PIT/CMH, but I'm bettin
29 LAXdude1023 : WorldTraveler is here to remind us that words speak louder than actions.
30 Cubsrule : To which AA and/or US hubs are you referring? Surely not PIT, unless I've missed the 200 flight FL hub or the 100 flight WN focus city there. It is t
31 MAH4546 : At least he finally admits that the CVG hub is going, going, gone. He used to claim it would never close. There is no doubt that DL will maintain som
32 WorldTraveler : I guess you missed the memo that AA is WAY down the list of the largest airlines at BNA and RDU and US is PIT... they walked away from those markets.
33 Cubsrule : Way down? AA is either number 2 or number 3 at BNA (depending on the measure you use; number 2 in ASMs but number 3 in seats and, IIRC, departures).
34 SurfandSnow : Now I'll give AA credit for keeping BNA-LAX and RDU-LHR (thanks to lucrative corporate contracts), but in no way has US maintained any kind of presen
35 MAH4546 : And they have a great corporate flyer base in Nashville to this day. A strong number two in the market. AA is also the largest in Raleigh, albeit Sou
36 GentFromAlaska : They say plagiarism is the best form of flattery
37 Cubsrule : I'd be surprised if WN has as many ASMs as AA at RDU.
38 ERJ170 : Currently, but AA will no longer be top at RDU much longer. From what I can tell for Sept 2009... WN has 77,038 pax AA has 38,556 + Eagle 34,288 + Ch
39 F9fan : F9 dropped DEN-IAD when they got two extra slots into DCA. The 3x DEN-DCA has been a mega cash cow for F9. I seriously doubt WN will be able to take
40 SANFan : Hmmm, you got me on that one, M. (It's a Friday so it would seem unlikely that it's a ferry of equipment due to a one-day cancellation of some sort..
41 Cvg2lga : Agreed. And I haven't always felt this way. Soon I hope!!!! Personal guilty pleasure. Delta hasn't failed AT CVG, they have failed CVG. People are ge
42 Mariner : A319 - dep: SAN 5.10pm arr: LAX 5.50pm fight #0412. That's all I know, sorry. Maybe it is a charter returning? I don't think it means a return to the
43 SANFan : I see that flight 412 is a regular LAX-DEN flight so on that Friday, they are simply originating that flight in SAN... (Which doesn't really explain
44 GentFromAlaska : Without turning this into a trip report I can concur from my wife's perspective She flew DL/NW from BNA-ATL-BOS on Sunday There was no change of airc
45 Cubsrule : Typically, individual airlines have it as a security requirement if there will be a crew change.
46 Enilria : Further proof that WN is not purposely targeting UA. If they were they would have attacked in IAD as well as SFO/CHI/DEN. Clearly it was their goal a
47 Atlwest1 : additionally there are minimal staffing requirements for an aircraft with thru pax. If the original crew had a tight connection and the continuing cr
48 ScottB : WN added 21 daily departures at MDW in the March 14 schedule change. That is far more dramatic an increase in capacity than what we're seeing in DEN
49 Iowaman : A lot of those, though, are just returning flights that were cut this fall. Most of the DEN is new, IIRC.
50 Mariner : Yes, I'm sure there is a logical reason for it, just as I am sure there is for the A319 flying MCI-OKC as I type this. I had thought it might be beca
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