Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?  
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

In South America only AR still operates its 747s to MAD, MIA and LAX I guess.

In the USA UA and NW also operate such aircratf..

In Europe BA, AF, LH, AZ, IB, KL and others too..

Why dod this airline keep old planes like those in their fleetss. The same thing happens with the DC-10. Thank god BA, AA, and RG don´t use them anymore.....

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5646 times:

Old? The 747 200 was built up until 1990.

JET


User currently offlineTI717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Does BA have plans to us their 742 for the new four class service??
I read somthing about a few months back.

TI717



Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
User currently offlineTOMASKEMPNER From Mexico, joined May 2001, 389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Japan Airlines is the only carrier operating the four series of 747, weel they have a 100 jumbos on their fleet.

747-100
747-200
747-300
747-400

all used in domestic and international routes


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

The ones in the LH fleet are not that old yet. I think they are from 1986 and 1987. Some 737-300s in their fleet are that old too...

User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Is this forum full of teens to whom anything older than 5 minutes has to be junked?

The 747-200 is an excellent aircraft, many of which are 20 years plus and still have thousands of useful hours left. The younger models will still be around up to about 2020.

The reason airlines keep aircraft is that, once they have been paid for and written down in the books of the owners, the only cost is maintenance, therefore they earn bigger profits - even if the engines are a little bit thirstier than more modern versions.

Aircraft built in the last 40 years or so have been built with design lives of up to 30 years and many have had these lives strtched byreworking and modernisation.



User currently offlineIbe1238 From Spain, joined Mar 2001, 134 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5588 times:

IBERIA is planning to change its 747-200. Nowadays they have sold one unit and they have leased three 747-300 from AIR ATLANTA.
They are comparing several models but it's not a secret that that most reliable candidate to substitute the 747-200 is AIRBUS 340-600. It would be a wise decition, so all long-haul fleet would be AIRBUS and as the B-757 will be substituted by A-321 IBERIA's fleet would be all AIRBUS( as I think that the MD_87 will also be replaced by A-318 or 319, but there are still so "young")
Manuel


User currently offlineFanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1956 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

Air India has several -200s in its fleet; some were delivered in 1979 and, therefore, have several years more useful life in them.

KLM still has its -200SUDs, which were retrofited with digital cockpits at a cost of US$54 million.

Other airlines: Corsair, Virgin Atlantic - not to mention a host of freight operations.



The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

A small correction, UA has retired its last 742 aircraft (in Nov/Dec 2000 I think).

As stated, many 742s are not even 15 years old yet, and have many years of flying left. Sometime people here forget that aircraft are very, very expensive, and and each 744 costs in excess of $100 million. Airlines cant trade their aircraft in every 3 or 4 years like some of do with our cars.



User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5574 times:

maybe for some awkward people from this forum planes last forever in an airline fleet. As far as I know technology makes news things look acient history in a minute!!! Accept the truth and realize that with the globalization we won´t see airlines keeping old planes such as 747-200,747-100(almost extinct), DC-9(horrible), DC-10, and even some 737-200 until 2010. Maybe some small airlines with no conditions to follow the modernization such as Russians and fellas!!!!! Aeroflot is a exception!!!!!! They like their aircrafts even knowing they are far behind from Boeing and Airbus. It´s a matter of valorization of their cultures and cheaper to run!!!!
Anyway, some members of this Forum still stuck in the past!!!!!! Of course airplanes like those nemed above had been big hits in the last 30 years ,but now!!!! A 777 or A340/A330 can´t be compared to those mentioned. It´s like a brand new BMW compared to a old version!!!!
New seats, more space, PTVs, internet acces, and a whole bunch of new stuffs not mentioning the aircraft for itsef.
I´ll bet when you have to face a 12 hour flight between Frankfurt and Singapore you rather travel nicely in a comfort airplane then in a old one with no space to stretch you legs!
Passanger is the key for airlines!!!! If you have loyal "customer" you can avoid many problems!!!!!

Hope A380 will prove that to you all that think awkwardly like PhilB!!!!!!

CIAO!!! Dellatorre!!!!!!




User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Dellatorre,

I thought teenagers didn't believe in fairy stories and make believe.

Your lack of knowledge, reality and experience is showing.

What you say about Aeroflot, with a growing western and plans for more new Russian aircraft is just more garbage.

If you want to come onto this forum to ask questions and learn and express INFORMED opinions, fine.

But don't start shouting the odds from a position of ignorance. As for me thinking awkwardly, that's me and most of the industry then.


User currently offlineStarship From South Africa, joined Nov 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

SAA still have five 747-200s in the fleet

They are:
ZS-SAN Lebombo
ZS-SAP Swartberg
ZS-SAL Tafelberg
ZS-SAO Drakensberg
ZS-SAM Magaliesberg

These aircraft are used on routes to Europe, the Far East, Australia and South America as well as regionally, as and when required.

As PhilB so rightly points out, there is nothing wrong with an old aircraft. As long as it is properly maintained - as are the SAA fleet - they can last for decades. Furthermore seat pitch has got nothing to do with the age of the aircraft. That is determined by the airlines requirements!




Behind every "no" is a "yes"
User currently offlineHugo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5514 times:

PR still have 2 747-200's

User currently offlineVictor Hotel From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

QF still use a few 200's. Lots of airlines keep these aircraft like as mentioned before they are not that old still(some of them anyway). They can also be used on domestic routes where the capacity is needed but not the range, or even medium to shorter haul international routes.
VH


User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5503 times:

The 742 is a great plane. I know for a fact that LH flies them, I have flown them on LH. They aren't that old. Real nice. The cockpit is the only thing that is getting a bit old, with all these new planes with the beautiful glass cockpits. Would a pilot prefer a glass-cockpitted 744 over an older 742 cockpit? Anyone know? I would assume they would prefer the 744, but I have read in Flight International that some pilots still preferred the older cockpits because they thought they were more reliable.

-FSPilot747


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7442 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5497 times:

United hasn't flown 200's since October 2000.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Saul Loeb


Scott  Smile



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAio86 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 928 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Although El Al wants to get rid of them soon, they are still flying on some flights around the world.

User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

ok I admit that the B747-200 is not the state-of-the-art airplane anymore, technologically speaking. Many of the very big airlines are getting rid of them, because they have higher operating costs. However, a new B747-400 costs, depending on configuration up to 200 million bucks, the 773 even more. So to replace a fleet of 10 742, u need a little cash. And if you try to replace a 10-year old plane for 200million, you have to give VERY good reasons to your supervisory board, so that they approve it.

The argument that the B742 offers less comfort because
she (or it) is old, is (excuse the expression) BS. You can easily integrate the latest entertainment system into the 742 as well, and seat pitch dropped quite a bit during the last couple of years. Also the seats got smaller.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5476 times:

Im surprised no one yet mentioned Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and Saudi Arabian Airlines, both of which operate the B747-200.

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Instead of age in years, i think it would be better to measure an aircrafts age in terms of the number of cycles (T/o and ldgs) it has had.

AI has around 4 747-200's that of 1979ish vintage. But the no of cycles these 4 have flown are quite low.

On the other hand an airline like Aloha which operates very shorthaul routes may have 5 year old aircraft that may have accumulated more than twice the no of the cycles that the 747-200 has in 20 years!


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Don't forget Air Atlanta, Qantas as well as Virgin Atlantic.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

Alitalia, Koreanair,Iranair

User currently offlineVH-EBV From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

Dellatore,

Based upon the level of fact you have given us in this posting, I just gave you a 1 out of 6.

To summarise:

1. Many 747-200s are not old aircraft.
2. Aircraft can be refitted and so can be as comfortable as brand new aircraft (seat pitch, PTV etc).
3. New aircraft are expensive and therefore airlines do not replace them until they have to.


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

VH-EBV, were you quoting me?  Big grin

SailorOrion


User currently offlineFrequentflyer5 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

JAL and ANA still use them too...

25 Post contains images Airmale : KHI747 arent the SV 747s the 100 version
26 Jaysit : We're dealing with aircraft that cost $ 150 million a piece here - not PCs that cost $ 1200 that you can junk after 6 months. Additionally, aircraft t
27 Na : Old? If you would come up with this topic in ten years from know it would make sense, but in 2001 the 747-200 is not a aircraft you can call outdated.
28 CorsairF/A : Hi, Corsair is flying 2 B747-200, and one is due to leave the fleet and be replaced by a SQ B747-300 (It will be the fourth one)
29 Post contains images VH-EBV : SailorOrion, Yes, summarising what you and others have said which are all good points! VH-EBV
30 Tg 747-300 : Fanofjets: Are all the KLM 747-200SUD's equiped with "new" instruments in the cocpit. When did that happened, and does this means that their 747-300 a
31 RayChuang : Actually, the 747-200 has quite a lot of life left. There are two futures for the 747-200: 1. An upgraded passenger airliner. The 742 could be rebuilt
32 JAL : JAL, PIA, PAL, NW, Alitalia, Iberia, Lufthansa, Air France, Qantas, ANA etc.
33 PolAir : Wait couple more years. It will change. I know all airlines are getting rid of their DC-10. I dont like them either. 747-200 is still prette useful ai
34 Skywings : I believe NW has one of the largest 747-200 fleet in the world...Including the Freighters they have more than 30 200s flying around the Pacific.
35 Boeing747-400 : Here's a list for you guys: Qantas KLM Virgin Atlantic Northwest British Airways JAL KLM Lufthansa Air India Corsair Air Atlanta SAA EL AL PIA Alitali
36 Joe : The JAL B747-200 are in great shape. You'd be surprised at how clean our log books are. And, by the way, the gents(sorry, no ladies in our -200 group)
37 Boeing747-400 : Here is my list: Qantas KLM Virgin Atlantic Northwest British Airways JAL KLM Lufthansa Air India Corsair Air Atlanta SAA EL AL PIA Iberia Alitalia Ko
38 Post contains images A330-243 : Your missing Air France which was mentioned in the original post ! Oh, well easy mistake......they only operate about 20 pax and cargo versions Put Sa
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Airlines Still Fly To TLV? posted Wed Oct 1 2003 12:12:06 by LMML 14/32
IL-18: What Airlines Still Fly Them? posted Fri Mar 1 2002 03:12:08 by Dripstick
What Airlines Still Fly The 747SP posted Fri Jan 14 2000 01:29:14 by TWA902fly
Where Do Major Airlines Still Fly 747 Classics? posted Mon Dec 15 2003 00:42:30 by N1120A
How Many, What, Where: Airlines Still Fly The 707? posted Mon Sep 23 2002 02:33:08 by Lehpron
What Airlines Still Uses Hats? posted Sun Oct 8 2006 20:57:51 by KE086
What Airlines Still Have A "real" First Class posted Thu May 11 2006 07:59:38 by UTA_flyinghigh
What U.S. Airlines Still Use Avro/Bae146? posted Wed Mar 29 2006 00:48:37 by Scoljet
What Can You Do With A 747-300? posted Wed Jun 15 2005 13:17:31 by Avalon
What Airlines Still Operate L-1011? posted Thu Feb 3 2005 21:17:57 by KDTWFlyer
Where Do Major Airlines Still Fly 747 Classics? posted Mon Dec 15 2003 00:42:30 by N1120A
How Many, What, Where: Airlines Still Fly The 707? posted Mon Sep 23 2002 02:33:08 by Lehpron
Would Concorde Still Fly With These Oilprices? posted Thu Jul 3 2008 06:18:09 by DALCE
Which US Airlines Still Fly Mail Domestically? posted Tue Jun 10 2008 19:06:17 by LV
Does Thai Still Fly The 747-300? posted Mon Nov 26 2007 06:31:25 by Mozart
Which Airlines Still Serve With Metal Knives posted Mon Jan 29 2007 10:41:03 by Cchan