PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6322 times:
Is this forum full of teens to whom anything older than 5 minutes has to be junked?
The 747-200 is an excellent aircraft, many of which are 20 years plus and still have thousands of useful hours left. The younger models will still be around up to about 2020.
The reason airlines keep aircraft is that, once they have been paid for and written down in the books of the owners, the only cost is maintenance, therefore they earn bigger profits - even if the engines are a little bit thirstier than more modern versions.
Aircraft built in the last 40 years or so have been built with design lives of up to 30 years and many have had these lives strtched byreworking and modernisation.
Ibe1238 From Spain, joined Mar 2001, 134 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6312 times:
IBERIA is planning to change its 747-200. Nowadays they have sold one unit and they have leased three 747-300 from AIR ATLANTA.
They are comparing several models but it's not a secret that that most reliable candidate to substitute the 747-200 is AIRBUS 340-600. It would be a wise decition, so all long-haul fleet would be AIRBUS and as the B-757 will be substituted by A-321 IBERIA's fleet would be all AIRBUS( as I think that the MD_87 will also be replaced by A-318 or 319, but there are still so "young")
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6299 times:
A small correction, UA has retired its last 742 aircraft (in Nov/Dec 2000 I think).
As stated, many 742s are not even 15 years old yet, and have many years of flying left. Sometime people here forget that aircraft are very, very expensive, and and each 744 costs in excess of $100 million. Airlines cant trade their aircraft in every 3 or 4 years like some of do with our cars.
Dellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1089 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6298 times:
maybe for some awkward people from this forum planes last forever in an airline fleet. As far as I know technology makes news things look acient history in a minute!!! Accept the truth and realize that with the globalization we won´t see airlines keeping old planes such as 747-200,747-100(almost extinct), DC-9(horrible), DC-10, and even some 737-200 until 2010. Maybe some small airlines with no conditions to follow the modernization such as Russians and fellas!!!!! Aeroflot is a exception!!!!!! They like their aircrafts even knowing they are far behind from Boeing and Airbus. It´s a matter of valorization of their cultures and cheaper to run!!!!
Anyway, some members of this Forum still stuck in the past!!!!!! Of course airplanes like those nemed above had been big hits in the last 30 years ,but now!!!! A 777 or A340/A330 can´t be compared to those mentioned. It´s like a brand new BMW compared to a old version!!!!
New seats, more space, PTVs, internet acces, and a whole bunch of new stuffs not mentioning the aircraft for itsef.
I´ll bet when you have to face a 12 hour flight between Frankfurt and Singapore you rather travel nicely in a comfort airplane then in a old one with no space to stretch you legs!
Passanger is the key for airlines!!!! If you have loyal "customer" you can avoid many problems!!!!!
Hope A380 will prove that to you all that think awkwardly like PhilB!!!!!!
These aircraft are used on routes to Europe, the Far East, Australia and South America as well as regionally, as and when required.
As PhilB so rightly points out, there is nothing wrong with an old aircraft. As long as it is properly maintained - as are the SAA fleet - they can last for decades. Furthermore seat pitch has got nothing to do with the age of the aircraft. That is determined by the airlines requirements!
Victor Hotel From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6241 times:
QF still use a few 200's. Lots of airlines keep these aircraft like as mentioned before they are not that old still(some of them anyway). They can also be used on domestic routes where the capacity is needed but not the range, or even medium to shorter haul international routes.
FSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6227 times:
The 742 is a great plane. I know for a fact that LH flies them, I have flown them on LH. They aren't that old. Real nice. The cockpit is the only thing that is getting a bit old, with all these new planes with the beautiful glass cockpits. Would a pilot prefer a glass-cockpitted 744 over an older 742 cockpit? Anyone know? I would assume they would prefer the 744, but I have read in Flight International that some pilots still preferred the older cockpits because they thought they were more reliable.
SailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6208 times:
ok I admit that the B747-200 is not the state-of-the-art airplane anymore, technologically speaking. Many of the very big airlines are getting rid of them, because they have higher operating costs. However, a new B747-400 costs, depending on configuration up to 200 million bucks, the 773 even more. So to replace a fleet of 10 742, u need a little cash. And if you try to replace a 10-year old plane for 200million, you have to give VERY good reasons to your supervisory board, so that they approve it.
The argument that the B742 offers less comfort because
she (or it) is old, is (excuse the expression) BS. You can easily integrate the latest entertainment system into the 742 as well, and seat pitch dropped quite a bit during the last couple of years. Also the seats got smaller.
Indianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6186 times:
Instead of age in years, i think it would be better to measure an aircrafts age in terms of the number of cycles (T/o and ldgs) it has had.
AI has around 4 747-200's that of 1979ish vintage. But the no of cycles these 4 have flown are quite low.
On the other hand an airline like Aloha which operates very shorthaul routes may have 5 year old aircraft that may have accumulated more than twice the no of the cycles that the 747-200 has in 20 years!
VH-EBV From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6174 times:
Based upon the level of fact you have given us in this posting, I just gave you a 1 out of 6.
1. Many 747-200s are not old aircraft.
2. Aircraft can be refitted and so can be as comfortable as brand new aircraft (seat pitch, PTV etc).
3. New aircraft are expensive and therefore airlines do not replace them until they have to.