Starting today we have to dig a bit deeper into our pockets, great timing government.
Virgin Atlantic chief executive Steve Ridgway said: "These proposed increases will not only hurt the aviation industry but also harm the British economy and those of many developing countries, like the Caribbean, which heavily rely on the tourism trade."
No one is listening.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
FlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2112 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7113 times:
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 2): Because, unlike the US, Northern European economies 'try' to balance their books to some extent.
Bit simplistic, and in the UK despite the tax burden increasing since 1997 we're more in debt as a country than ever. Not just down to the recession either! This new air tax might raise X amount, but how much more might be lost because passengers avoid travelling through the UK, because passengers dcide it'd be better to travel via a European airport even from the UK for longhaul, etc?
While transit pax may be exempt, you can still expect large numbers of UK origination pax will take a short hop over to the continent (at the lower tax rate) and then connect to a long haul from there.
This tax will actually increase greenhouse gas pollution while harming the UK carriers (especially VS as they have very little transit feed). Just ask the Dutch about the cross border traffic to Germany.
Just "plane" stupid.
I have often wondered why politicians are not required by law to learn at least the basics of economics.
Yes, but only if the booking is straight through. I read about many people on this site who fly into LGW or LHR on longhaul flights who then connect to say EasyJet or Ryanair. They'd be hit with the tax because they wouldn't be classed as being in transit.
Having recently taken a return London to New York flight, made as two separate bookings, the tax was noticably higher (more than double) on the outbound flight than the inbound, and that was before these changes.
AirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6636 times:
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 6): Just ask the Dutch about the cross border traffic to Germany.
Slightly different situation though, wouldn't you say?
Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 6): I have often wondered why politicians are not required by law to learn at least the basics of economics.
Could apply to a.net to, you know......plus some actual geographical knowledge would be helpful at times!
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7): Yes, but only if the booking is straight through. I read about many people on this site who fly into LGW or LHR on longhaul flights who then connect to say EasyJet or Ryanair. They'd be hit with the tax because they wouldn't be classed as being in transit.
You definitely should do some research as previously advised. Both a transfer and transit passenger is one who arrives, and then continues the journey to final destination......whether that passenger travels onward on Easyjet, Ryanair or any other airline is irrelevant because they are still a transfer passenger. Transit and transfer passengers are two different things, and both of which are exempt. In your own 'argument', connecting on say a BA flight they still wouldn't be in transit......they would be a [i]transfer[i/] passenger.
Being on one or more tickets has no bearing whatever of determination if a passenger is in either transit, or transferring!
AirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6525 times:
Quoting JaseWGTN (Reply 10): So where on the Easyjet/RyanAir etc website, can you tick a box saying I'm only transitting, please charge me less tax?
Instead of attempting to be 'knowledgeable/sarcastic' try some research......you cannot transit[i/] on either Easyjet or Ryanair!! You can, however, [i]transfer to/from. Had you actually read and understood my post I clearly said there is a difference between transit and transfer passengers! They are not the same!
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8593 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6489 times:
Another BLOODY AWFUL TAX, her majesty's exchequor needs to find another way to raise money then from Tourists. The airline industry is one where BA and Virgin are at the top of their game to most destinations, taxing people over one hundred ounds as a departure tax is stupid. The British airline industry has to be one with a positive balance of payments to teh country( I don't know the number) but I would fly a British airline price being equal to an airline from the USA. Governements have to stop thinking of travel as a piggy bank they can just raid when economic times get tough.
Shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4239 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6457 times:
Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): Because, unlike the US, Northern European economies 'try' to balance their books to some extent.
Indeed, with "try" being the operative word....
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 3): This new air tax might raise X amount, but how much more might be lost because passengers avoid travelling through the UK, because passengers dcide it'd be better to travel via a European airport even from the UK for longhaul, etc?
It really messes up staff travel quite a bit. With ZED tickets, you book by sector, so you will still get charged the full tax applicable.
From Ireland directly, your choice of long haul destinations is more limited than out of LHR (well, isnt nearly everywhere's choice of long haul more limited than LHR!) and of course this, combined with a flight from DUB to LHR practically every half hour, makes LHR our most convenient stopover. Obviously, with the tax burden on air pax now so high from the UK, one tends to look elsewhere, usually to CDG or FRA, for the true "bargain" ZED ticket.
But of course, we are "non revs" so dont really matter in the big scheme of things....
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 1): And I thought the US was bad. Why is it that the only solution the UK can ever come up with is some form of tax? Just another reason I try to avoid LHR.
I think they want you to avoid LHR or at least some of you / us to avoid LHR. Its painted as a "green tax" but my own view is it's more "demand management" than anything else.
The UK, and London is particular, has struggled to deliver airport capacity in a timely manner over the last number of years. Just witness the protests at STN, LHR etc etc. Expansion isnt going to be easy, or even infinitely possible, so the only other solution is to dampen demand.
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
WildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2672 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5921 times:
Quoting AirNz (Reply 11): Instead of attempting to be 'knowledgeable/sarcastic' try some research
Instead of attacking others you should read the linked document. Transfer and transit passengers (for purposes of APD) are clearly defined there. FlyCaledonian and JaseWGTN are both correct, passengers not connecting on single ticket are not considered transfer passengers and therefore are not exempt of APD.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26208 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5814 times:
Quoting AirNz (Reply 9): Both a transfer and transit passenger is one who arrives, and then continues the journey to final destination......whether that passenger travels onward on Easyjet, Ryanair or any other airline is irrelevant because they are still a transfer passenger. Transit and transfer passengers are two different things, and both of which are exempt.
How do you avoid paying the tax in that case since you have to purchase two completely separate tickets if you want to transfer to/from Easyjet, Ryanair or other LCCs? There would be no link between the two transactions to enable you to avoid paying tax on both tickets.
Planesavvy From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5328 times:
Well, at the end of the day it is a simple case of supply and demand. Aviation is a big industry in the UK that can be easily milked. Will demand drop off that much? I am not too sure.
It was billed as a green tax, which was about making people feel guilty for flying and thus easier to tax. Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, admitted it was nothing more than a tax grab.
SuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4511 times:
I actually priced out a ticket to London to come over and see a football match. All in, the coach ticket was over $1000 USD per person. $400 of that was tax! Sorry my friends, I will just watch that match on Fox Soccer Channel. There's 2 people that the tax has deturred.
ADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 954 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4119 times:
This is a UK tax and not just LHR. This includes BHM-EWR BRS-EWR etc.
For us in the USA and zone B I believe the tax only increase 10 GBP to approx $165USD.
I would be in London several times a year if the taax was lower. I now only visit every couple of years and spend time in other countries for Holidays. Not only is the UK losing money from me by not flying from the UK they also lose my other revenue from Hotels, meals, theatre tickets etc.
AMS raised their tax last year and realized it was a mistake and rolled it back this past summer.
At my carrier If I fax the accounting dept a Boarding pass from an OAL flight and spent less then 24 hours in London they do not charge my paycheck the tax.
My last trip to London I took the Train/Ferry to Dublin to fly home. Train/Ferry combo ticket was GBP26 and Ireland dept tax was Euro 7.50
Yodobashi From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 241 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
Come on guys, give the politicians a break, they have to pay for their second homes somehow
And folks, if you think the problem is bad now, don't think that voting conservative at the next election would make matters any better .... Conservative made a pledge made some time back that if they got into power, they would tax domestic flights "out of the sky" and invest in more environmentally friendly high speed rail.
Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 18): Not only is the UK losing money from me by not flying from the UK they also lose my other revenue from Hotels, meals, theatre tickets etc.
I am sorry to say it but whilst our country still has many things which make it great, there are an ever increasing number of things which make me determined that I have no intention of growing old here. And it's not just a small tax hike that pi**es me off, it's the fundamentally flawed and shallow thinking of the muppets that run this country in just about everything they do! And it's not like we even have a viable alternative next election
What a bag of crap!!!
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page"
Aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2930 times:
Quoting AirNz (Reply 10): Instead of attempting to be 'knowledgeable/sarcastic' try some research......you cannot transit[i/] on either Easyjet or Ryanair!! You can, however, [i]transfer to/from. Had you actually read and understood my post I clearly said there is a difference between transit and transfer passengers! They are not the same!
Perhaps, AirNZ, you would like to respond to the actual question - how does a transfer pax then recoup their additional tax they paid the second airline?
Ooooo I know I know, set up a new bureaucracy for transfer pax to claim back the tax, with the funds being sent to, hrmmmmm, a bank account in another country (after 6-8 weeks, of course) incurring further fees and all funded, of course, by a tax under the guise of "green taxes". How very... Monty Pythonesque.
AirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2907 times:
Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 22): Perhaps, AirNZ, you would like to respond to the actual question - how does a transfer pax then recoup their additional tax they paid the second airline?
I will gladly assist you, after I firstly correct you by stating that the poster asked about transitting passengers.....to which I correctly answered that you cannot transit on either Ryanair or Easyjet. You now are asking about transfer passengers (which was not the "actual question" at all!). These are two different types of passenger, and I honestly wish some of you actually knew that before claiming self-expertise, and childish attempts at sarcasm. To answer your question, to claim back any additional tax due one simply gets this refunded from the airline [i]after[i] the applicable flights have been completed. Alternatively, if in applicable circumstances, it can be done at the office of HM Customs and Revenue located at the departing airport in the United Kingdom.
Now, as you were very good at attempting sarcasm in that the applicable discussion was applying to Ryanair and Easyjet, in your obvious expertise on the matter of ticketing, please tell me how you would do the same thing on, for example, the BA website if two tickets were being used for the journey? Go ahead please, and tell me what's different about the process?
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13249 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2867 times:
The demands for service, safety and security of our airports, of taxpayers that airports must pay for themselves and the need of general revenue to pay for other needs of citizens, all add up to the explosive added fees by governments for flying. I do agree that the fees and taxes imposed by some governments, the UK being one of the worst offenders, indeed hurts airliners and pax/customers, in turn hurting trade and tourism. Far too often, most people look at commercial flying as a luxury, that those that use it ought to pay for it even if they benefit from it as to employment and trade. That some new taxes seem to have an enviromental reasoning, may not be a bad thing but in the end they will kill of badly need jobs. What good is clearner air if you can't enjoy it as you can't afford to live as don't have a job or one that pays enough.
Eventually, when the taxes and fees get too high, many may choose to not to go to some places, or they will cut back on how long they stay or how much they spend from using cheaper hotels or going to cheaper resturants for example. It also discourages those of more moderate incomes from travel and learing about other cultures which may make them more well rounded persons. For businesses, it may mean not exploring new opportunites, hurting their bottom line in the long run.
Please don't tell me that you think that the amount of tax we pay is fair......
We already pay a ridiculous amount of tax on most things here, so any further increases just hurt the average person just that little bit more, maybe your in a fortunate enough position to not concern yourself with how much the things you buy cost, if you are, then you are very fortunate, but I ask you to consider that recently I looked at booking a couple of flights to the US for a break next year. The total price of the return fare including tax was £446pp and nearly £300 of that was taxes and surcharges.
If you think that 2/3 tax is fair, then it's fair to say I'm speechless, and the same goes for petrol and alcohol.
Why is it that the amount of tax is so crippling? I think we are all prepared to pay our fair share, but I can't see how the amount we pay is fair, and when the budget comes round ever year, what always manages to go up by just a few more pence....the usual.
To say that this increase is very small and only 'slightly' increases things is maybe fair comment, but when coupled to already very high taxes, in my mind it's just plain wrong!
Flown On B704,722,732/3/4/7/8/9,744,752,762/3/4,772,77W,A319,A320,A321,A330,A388,L1011,F-50,BAE146,CRJ100, Dash-8. Left
: Well if that is the case, then the British failed. Exactly. Example: I live in Holland and want to get to DUB. I book EIN-STN-DUB with FR. I have to
: This is completely ridiculous. Not a single tree has been planted thanks to this tax, mainly because although it is painted "green" (the number 1 favo
: Ah yes, relying on semantics to justify your terse and entirely unhelpful response - wonderful. We all know what the question was referring to - and
: Ha, ha, ha, that nearly made me fall out of my chair! I can't wait to see someone trying to claim back their UK departure tax from Ryanair on account
: Flying to AMS would be even worse, because they have a similar air travel tax in place, so you would effectively end up being double-taxed for that f
: Sorry, but your are wrong in two ways: 1. the Dutch air ticket tax has been shelved since July 1st 2. Passengers using AMS as a transit point did not