Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WN In MKE: “Room To Grow”  
User currently offlineYeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Southwest has inaugurated service in Milwaukee with a dozen daily nonstop flights to six destinations (3 to BWI, 3 to MCI, 2 to LAS, 2 to MCO, 1 to PHX, and 1 to TPA).

Yesterday CEO Kelly is quoted as saying that WN has "plenty of room to grow (in Milwaukee)".
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/mil...ee/stories/2009/11/02/daily14.html

He's referring to further flights out of MKE, but I was wondering how many flights can the current two gates in MKE handle before they need to expand in the D concourse?

O course, speculation on further routes out of MKE would be welcome as well!  

yeo

[Edited 2009-11-03 06:39:30 by yeogeo]


Yokoso! to my world
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16825 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

How about some PHL flights, 2x daily?.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineATLgaUSA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3443 times:



Quoting Yeogeo (Thread starter):
He's referring to further flights out of MKE, but I was wondering how many flights can the current two gates in MKE handle before they need to expand in the D concourse?

WN can handle as many as twenty-four flights per day from two gates.


User currently offlineYeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3401 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1):
MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...

YX may disappear at the hands of Republic (speculation on my part) before either WN or FL can claim it's demise, so the three-way pitched battle you describe may be between F9, WN and FL, FWIW.

Kelly is also quoted in another article, if I remember correctly, that there will not be any further expansion in MKE in '10, by the way, so any speculation about further routes will have to wait some time before confirmation!

What I'm really after is info on gate utilization: are there any two-gate Southwest stations which can give me an idea how many flights WN can push through such a set up? Or any rule of thumb as to WN flights per gate?

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineYeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3352 times:



Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 3):
WN can handle as many as twenty-four flights per day from two gates.

Aha! Thanks, ATL!
So theoretically, WN could double their flights out of MKE before maximizing their gate space... A lot of seats! That should serve them well for quite some time.

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3352 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1):
MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...

YX has the advantage of name recognition in the MKE market. They also have more flights to more destinations than the other airlines. That gives them the edge. WN has very deep pockets and has proven willing to lose money hand over fist to gain market share (DEN). FL is the one with a history of pulling out of markets when times get tough. I think FL will likely be the odd man out.

You have to admit it is pretty clever on the part of WN. If MKE is able to pull traffic from the north suburbs (which I doubt there is little impact) then WN is going at Chicago from both sides with MDW and MKE. Unfortunately this is going to create a mess in MKE by killing yields and potentially driving out YX or FL.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

The rule of thumb is 10 flights per gate. However on occasion WN operates as many as 12 per gate.

User currently offlineYeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3302 times:



Quoting Indy (Reply 6):
YX has the advantage of name recognition in the MKE market.

I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3279 times:



Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 8):
I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.

Perhaps - but YX will fly to more destinations than WN for a long time. Where's the advantage in building up MKE for them when MDW is just down the road? They don't need to connect passengers at MKE, but that's a large part of what they've done at a place like DEN.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineYeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 882 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3242 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
YX will fly to more destinations than WN for a long time

Undoubtedly, Cubsrule. Perhaps having various a/c to fit various markets is also an advantage.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
They don't need to connect passengers at MKE, but that's a large part of what they've done at a place like DEN.

Don't quite follow this... Please explain.

yeo



Yokoso! to my world
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3212 times:



Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 10):
Don't quite follow this... Please explain.

Cubs, if I may I think I can clear this one up for ya.

If you look at the larger WN stations, WN uses them to serve the O&D but also to "connect" passengers to other markets. Basically what Cubs is saying here (if I understand it right) is that WN can serve the O&D of MKE without worrying about connecting folks through there. Similar to what they do in places like SDF. Yes, there are some minimal amounts of connections routed through there but the majority of passengers are all O&D. That's what I think he was going at with his post.

If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me though.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3194 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 11):
Basically what Cubs is saying here (if I understand it right) is that WN can serve the O&D of MKE without worrying about connecting folks through there. Similar to what they do in places like SDF. Yes, there are some minimal amounts of connections routed through there but the majority of passengers are all O&D. That's what I think he was going at with his post.

It's precisely what I was getting at. With FL and YX in town, that fact will keep the amount of WN growth limited. There are definitely opportunities for WN (DEN, OAK, BNA), but you aren't going to see IAD or SMF.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

I think it will be awhile before WN does more expansion at MKE. They saw a window of opportunity in MKE and took advantage of it.... I think their attention is in DEN in a major way. They really want to put the screws to F9 and UA looking for someone to blink first. IMHO it will be UA that blinks first. F9 has their costs in line with WN but UA is not there yet and may never be.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

WN can own DTW-MKE if they wanted to. NW has always had a ridiculous high fare between those cities. WN can come in with 88bucks one way and own it in a month with only three or four RTs a day.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2912 times:



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 14):
WN can own DTW-MKE if they wanted to.

Does WN own CHI-DTW?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2888 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):

Does WN own CHI-DTW?

WN certainly does in number of seats. They have 7 frequencies daily, while AA and UA are both RJ service.

AA has 7 frequencies and UA has 6 frequencies.

So WN is tied with AA for number of flights, but wins in terms of seat availability. Not sure about passengers actually carried and yields.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22737 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2848 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 16):
WN certainly does in number of seats.

In April, 2009 (most recently-available data), WN carried 20831 passengers (74% load), NW carried 39937 (70% load), AA carried 13564 (79% load), and UA carried 13700 (81% load). NW had both more seats and more passengers, and both AA and UA had better loads. Obviously, that says nothing about yields.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2805 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):

In April, 2009 (most recently-available data), WN carried 20831 passengers (74% load), NW carried 39937 (70% load), AA carried 13564 (79% load), and UA carried 13700 (81% load). NW had both more seats and more passengers, and both AA and UA had better loads. Obviously, that says nothing about yields.

I had totally forgotten about NW, duh me.

I checked their website, and they are at eight daily, 1 being an RJ. So, WN, AA are tied in frequencies with NW having the most,and UA the least and right now as of tomorrow, WN still offers more seats than any of the airlines for ORD-DTW.

However as you said yield is not able to be counted or how many actual passengers flown.

So what information is used to determine who is the largest on such route, yield, avail seats, use of jets, actual passengers flown?

Going quickly off topic, STL now claims as of April WN would be the largest at STL in all three, destinations served, number of avail seats and passengers flown.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2698 times:



Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 8):
I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.

Pure name recognition it would probably be pretty close between YX and WN. If you factor in brand loyalty YX would have it. If people start paying attention to the news the rather immature battle between FL and YX in the press might turn people off of both airlines and on to WN.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 1 day ago) and read 2615 times:



Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 4):
Kelly is also quoted in another article, if I remember correctly, that there will not be any further expansion in MKE in '10, by the way, so any speculation about further routes will have to wait some time before confirmation!

Sometimes in the airline business, mis-information is the best information to dole out,
as has been practiced by WN many times.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 2516 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1):
MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...

Just like DEN and I agree about YX.


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 21 hours ago) and read 2433 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1):
I know YX will lose...however...

Boy if I had a dollar everytime I read that prediction in this forum the last 5-6 years I wouldn't have to go to work tomorrow morning.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
WN In Denver According To A WSJ Article posted Tue Nov 29 2005 15:56:55 by RedFlyer
WN 733 In Mke posted Thu Oct 29 2009 21:48:43 by Phxmkeflyer
FL Steps Up To Bat In MKE posted Tue Feb 3 2009 12:31:52 by TVNWZ
Right Or Wrong To Let A UM Pax Wait In Staff Room? posted Fri Jun 13 2008 12:46:58 by LH4116
Where Is WN Going In The Next 5 To 10 Years? posted Sun Feb 26 2006 23:51:24 by Nwab787techops
US To Outsource Ramp In MKE To Skyway Airlines posted Sat Mar 12 2005 00:15:18 by AirTran737
Midwest To Outsource Ramp In MKE posted Tue Mar 1 2005 01:45:08 by FlyXJT
WN Starts MKE 2 Weeks From Today..How Are Loads? posted Sun Oct 18 2009 15:02:32 by Phxtravelboy
IB6700 Evacuated In CCS Due To Bomb Threat posted Fri Oct 16 2009 17:13:43 by Rleiro
Numerous Diversions In Brazil Due To Fog At GRU posted Fri Aug 28 2009 08:19:19 by C010T3