Yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2649 times:
Southwest has inaugurated service in Milwaukee with a dozen daily nonstop flights to six destinations (3 to BWI, 3 to MCI, 2 to LAS, 2 to MCO, 1 to PHX, and 1 to TPA).
He's referring to further flights out of MKE, but I was wondering how many flights can the current two gates in MKE handle before they need to expand in the D concourse?
O course, speculation on further routes out of MKE would be welcome as well!
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2273 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2606 times:
MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...
ATLgaUSA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
Quoting Yeogeo (Thread starter): He's referring to further flights out of MKE, but I was wondering how many flights can the current two gates in MKE handle before they need to expand in the D concourse?
WN can handle as many as twenty-four flights per day from two gates.
Yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1): MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...
YX may disappear at the hands of Republic (speculation on my part) before either WN or FL can claim it's demise, so the three-way pitched battle you describe may be between F9, WN and FL, FWIW.
Kelly is also quoted in another article, if I remember correctly, that there will not be any further expansion in MKE in '10, by the way, so any speculation about further routes will have to wait some time before confirmation!
What I'm really after is info on gate utilization: are there any two-gate Southwest stations which can give me an idea how many flights WN can push through such a set up? Or any rule of thumb as to WN flights per gate?
Yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2456 times:
Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 3): WN can handle as many as twenty-four flights per day from two gates.
Aha! Thanks, ATL!
So theoretically, WN could double their flights out of MKE before maximizing their gate space... A lot of seats! That should serve them well for quite some time.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2456 times:
Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 1): MKE will be the battle of Iwo Jima but with 3 sides! I know YX will lose...however...
YX has the advantage of name recognition in the MKE market. They also have more flights to more destinations than the other airlines. That gives them the edge. WN has very deep pockets and has proven willing to lose money hand over fist to gain market share (DEN). FL is the one with a history of pulling out of markets when times get tough. I think FL will likely be the odd man out.
You have to admit it is pretty clever on the part of WN. If MKE is able to pull traffic from the north suburbs (which I doubt there is little impact) then WN is going at Chicago from both sides with MDW and MKE. Unfortunately this is going to create a mess in MKE by killing yields and potentially driving out YX or FL.
Yeogeo From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 790 posts, RR: 14 Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2406 times:
Quoting Indy (Reply 6): YX has the advantage of name recognition in the MKE market.
I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2383 times:
Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 8): I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.
Perhaps - but YX will fly to more destinations than WN for a long time. Where's the advantage in building up MKE for them when MDW is just down the road? They don't need to connect passengers at MKE, but that's a large part of what they've done at a place like DEN.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Cubs, if I may I think I can clear this one up for ya.
If you look at the larger WN stations, WN uses them to serve the O&D but also to "connect" passengers to other markets. Basically what Cubs is saying here (if I understand it right) is that WN can serve the O&D of MKE without worrying about connecting folks through there. Similar to what they do in places like SDF. Yes, there are some minimal amounts of connections routed through there but the majority of passengers are all O&D. That's what I think he was going at with his post.
If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me though.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2298 times:
Quoting Lexy (Reply 11): Basically what Cubs is saying here (if I understand it right) is that WN can serve the O&D of MKE without worrying about connecting folks through there. Similar to what they do in places like SDF. Yes, there are some minimal amounts of connections routed through there but the majority of passengers are all O&D. That's what I think he was going at with his post.
It's precisely what I was getting at. With FL and YX in town, that fact will keep the amount of WN growth limited. There are definitely opportunities for WN (DEN, OAK, BNA), but you aren't going to see IAD or SMF.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
MKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 687 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2223 times:
I think it will be awhile before WN does more expansion at MKE. They saw a window of opportunity in MKE and took advantage of it.... I think their attention is in DEN in a major way. They really want to put the screws to F9 and UA looking for someone to blink first. IMHO it will be UA that blinks first. F9 has their costs in line with WN but UA is not there yet and may never be.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2079 times:
WN can own DTW-MKE if they wanted to. NW has always had a ridiculous high fare between those cities. WN can come in with 88bucks one way and own it in a month with only three or four RTs a day.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2016 times:
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1952 times:
In April, 2009 (most recently-available data), WN carried 20831 passengers (74% load), NW carried 39937 (70% load), AA carried 13564 (79% load), and UA carried 13700 (81% load). NW had both more seats and more passengers, and both AA and UA had better loads. Obviously, that says nothing about yields.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1909 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
In April, 2009 (most recently-available data), WN carried 20831 passengers (74% load), NW carried 39937 (70% load), AA carried 13564 (79% load), and UA carried 13700 (81% load). NW had both more seats and more passengers, and both AA and UA had better loads. Obviously, that says nothing about yields.
I had totally forgotten about NW, duh me.
I checked their website, and they are at eight daily, 1 being an RJ. So, WN, AA are tied in frequencies with NW having the most,and UA the least and right now as of tomorrow, WN still offers more seats than any of the airlines for ORD-DTW.
However as you said yield is not able to be counted or how many actual passengers flown.
So what information is used to determine who is the largest on such route, yield, avail seats, use of jets, actual passengers flown?
Going quickly off topic, STL now claims as of April WN would be the largest at STL in all three, destinations served, number of avail seats and passengers flown.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1802 times:
Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 8): I must say, Indy, although I know where you're coming from, I think claiming a name recognition advantage for Midwest over Southwest is a hard row to hoe, even in Milwaukee.
Pure name recognition it would probably be pretty close between YX and WN. If you factor in brand loyalty YX would have it. If people start paying attention to the news the rather immature battle between FL and YX in the press might turn people off of both airlines and on to WN.
Ridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 913 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1719 times:
Quoting Yeogeo (Reply 4): Kelly is also quoted in another article, if I remember correctly, that there will not be any further expansion in MKE in '10, by the way, so any speculation about further routes will have to wait some time before confirmation!
Sometimes in the airline business, mis-information is the best information to dole out,
as has been practiced by WN many times.
Sideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1537 times:
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