LIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9603 times:
Vietnam Airlines Corp., the country’s state-owned carrier, and Romanian carrier Tarom SA will join the SkyTeam alliance in June as the group expands its operations in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe.
The governing board of SkyTeam made the decision Thursday in a meeting held in Incheon, South Korea, Korean Air Lines Co., the country’s biggest airline and a SkyTeam member, said in an e-mailed statement Thursday.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9581 times:
Not too much of a surprise as both have been on the cards for a while . Still , it is nice to have official confirmation . Both will provide additional hubs which can help pax on complicated itineraries avoid too much of the dreaded timewasting backtracking .
I am still amazed that Skyteam keep flirting with MH but never consummate the relationship , it is almost enough to make me believe the A.net urban legend about AF hating MH
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
LIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9547 times:
Another confirmation from "The Korea Times"
"....Skyteam will expand services in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe. The joining of Vietnam Airlines and Romania’s Tarom in 2010 will bring the total number of full member airlines in the alliance to 13."
Frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9448 times:
Good news for Skyteam, they needed another Asian airline. Wonder if this means a direct flight from Vietnam to AMS in the not too distant future. Since AF already serves HAN and SGN, KL won't go there - but a 787 in VN colors would be a very welcome sight here Tourism to Vietnam is growing in the Netherlands, so I could see it work.
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4021 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9093 times:
This clearly wasn't designed to replace CO. CO only brought Mexico and Central America to the alliance. Though not covered as extensively as CO, AeroMexico and DL cover it pretty well. CO is hardly a major loss to Skyteam.
JRDC930 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8976 times:
Well I can see Vietnam Airlines being useful, but Tarom? They are just going to be dead weight, a poorly run airline, with limited destinations, and almost no true long-haul flights won't help SkyTeam IMO.
Agree - they do not bring anything new to the table; I guess they are going to be smth akin to former Star Alliance regional members - not a full fledged major airline with a major hub and strong coverage of a particular geography, but just a local "plug". Romania is not a small market in itself, though, and now it "belongs" to Slyteam
Connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 933 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8675 times:
Quoting Addd (Reply 10): Romania is not a small market in itself, though, and now it "belongs" to Slyteam
True, Romania it's not a small market but it does not belong to SkyTeam as one would come to think. Star Alliance trough Lufthansa and Austrian already captured a good chunk of that market few years back.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8648 times:
Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 8): This clearly wasn't designed to replace CO. CO only brought Mexico and Central America to the alliance. Though not covered as extensively as CO, AeroMexico and DL cover it pretty well. CO is hardly a major loss to Skyteam.
DL has slowly been replacing the parts of CO that Sky really needed, NYC hub, Big Latin American/South America network. When CO joined Sky DL didn't have much of these to things, Then Leo started making a big run into LatinAM and Gerry grew in NYC. CO wasn't really needed in Sky anymore.
JU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2773 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8343 times:
Even tough Tarom is not their best option I can see why they want them in. SkyTeam has no prescence in the Balkans. And in addition to that their coverage of the region is also poor. In my opinion getting JU would be a much better option. JU is known in the region of Yugoslavia, and their coverage of it is quite good, they fly to every ex republic and this summer they are opening the sky towards Croatia by starting Pula (going all year) and Dubrovnik!
So in total their destinations in YU region goes to:
Skopje/ Ohrid (summer) - FYROM
Tivat/Podgorica - Montenegro
Sarajevo/Banja Luka - B&H
Pula/Dubrovnik (Zagreb is they code-share with Croatian from May, which i doubt but still...)
Ljubljana/ Portoroz (talks in progress to join it with their flights to Rome) - Slovenia
In addition to this, JU has a rather good prescence in Scandinavia flying to GOT(seasonal going year round), CPH and ARN, OSL was stopped some time ago. And another thing that is very bad is that RO doesn't fly to Moscow!
So I don't know, RO flies to Spain and has a bigger Middle-East network than JU, but JU has more potential for long-haul as we have a very strong diaspora in the US but also in Australia and South Africa...
DAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8248 times:
I don't mean to be patriotic or such, but I certainly believe RO is a good choice for SkyTeam. Romania is the largest country in South-Eastern Europe. RO domestic flights are KL codeshare already. I sure hope to see AF/KL fly some domestic routes after we join the alliance. Wouldn't it be better to have a large hub at OTP for Asian travel and leave AMS/CDG/FCO for TATL?
Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
JU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2773 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8068 times:
Well it doesn't seem that realistic to me as no airline would transfer their operations just to decrease congestion at their airports. I don't see AF, KL, AZ, SU decreasing their Asian routes just because they want to make RO their Asian airline.
Another thing is that a lot of people pick the airline they are familiar with. So for a lot of people the idea of flying Tarom to Asia could be a scary idea, I am not saying that Tarom is unsafe or whatever just that it needs to have a stable route network in Europe and a good image, and since it lacks both things I think the expansion into Asia will not happen.
And as far as code-share goes it doesn't really matter as JU codeshares with AZ to FCO, MXP and Trieste, AF, OK and SU.
JRDC930 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
Quoting Terminalc (Reply 15): I can't see much reason for VN other than their rather cool livery and they can say they have a SE Asian partner. They have a very inconsistent product & nothing on par with DL/NW, AF & KE.
I beg to differ. They may not be up to par with AF or KE, but they are certainly better than DL or NW in the product they offer..or any other american carrier for that matter...it doesnt take much to offer a better product than an american carrier...DL sucks IMO.
Terminalc From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7595 times:
Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 22): I beg to differ. They may not be up to par with AF or KE, but they are certainly better than DL or NW in the product they offer.
That's just not the case. For international flights, their 777 seats are a generation behind all WBC/BE seats, their AVOD is badly dated, international catering is tolerable.
Domestic flights are ok (new planes as a rule, eco has good seat pitch) but again DL/NW has a better product & certainly better service. VN's service is indifferent. Every time I fly them I keep expecting a better experience only to be disappointed. Give me a flight on ANY US airline any day.
I wish they were a first-choice airline, but they simply are not. I just do not see what they bring to the table except future European - SE Asia routes (LHR-SGN). DL certainly doesn't want them competing with them TPAC. They have flights to OZ but so do DL & AF.
MH would offer much more as a whole. That said, I'm glad that VN is joining. Perhaps it will improve their product & service.
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7369 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13): DL has slowly been replacing the parts of CO that Sky really needed, NYC hub, Big Latin American/South America network. When CO joined Sky DL didn't have much of these to things, Then Leo started making a big run into LatinAM and Gerry grew in NYC. CO wasn't really needed in Sky anymore
CO's biggest presence in Latin America was in Mexico, and AeroMexico is filling the gap with new and more flights to the US. The weird thing is that CO and AM had some overlapping routes and serve similar destination through their hubs, but since their codeshare agreement was never implemented, they were two SkyTeam partners competing agianst each other for the same passengers.
: Quite correct indeed.....they have been much superior on every single occasion I have flown them, and which has been quite frequently for the past fe
: Pardon me for being a negative Ned, but Air France does not have flights to Australia on its own metal.
: Correct indeed. I didn't bother to mention that as I was curious to know what on earth the poster was even talking about anyhow. I still totally fail
: DL doesn't want VN competing against their flight bec DL has no rights to fly passengers only between SGN & NRT. It's a restriction of the US-VN agre
: Yes, you are right. I misread their schedule.
: Once VN enters SkyTeam, coupled with the inevitable pulldown of the NRT hub (not to open a vast debate about that folks, but to me the writing's on t
: = MEA is *also* being blocked by AF. AF wants MEA to join Flying Blue as a condition to having them part of Skyteam. MEA (very wisely) has refrained
: Chalk it up to two tests this week, but could you expound upon that a little please? Thanks!
: AF codeshares with QF via HKG and SIN to Australia so they're selling Europe-Australia. VN can also connect passengers online via SGN between Europe
: Well obviously you dont like VN and this is fine, you are entitled to you opinion, but no need to say non sense statement as having an inconsistent p
: The allegation that AF is blocking MH's entry into Skyteam is an a.net urban myth that has been circulating around here for several years. It's broug
: Rummors said that LHR, AMS, SOF or PGR are within VN choices of radical
: No, MEA is being sponsored by AF. It's not AF that wants MEA to join Flying Blue as a condition to joining SkyTeam. It's SkyTeam which requires that
: MEA is not "blocked" by AF to join Skyteam. At the opposite (as you are saying in your next sentence), AF wants MEA in Sky. The condition you are ref
: Why would Vietnam Airlines start Sofia? I mean that is great, but what are they aiming at there? Wouldn't OTP make more sense since Tarom is joining S
: These make sense. It's remarkable that there's no non-stop SGN-LHR.
: You really are getting carried away with absolute cobblers. VN are currently considering the A380 to open up non-stop between SGN/LAX-SFO....so what
: So out of curiosity how often do you fly DL?
: I like VN and I usually go with them if I am going to Vietnam. For those who are not fussy about IFE, they are generally comfortable. Service is not
: It is not a matter of "not liking" VN. It's my many years of experience flying VN. I have had some very good flights, but the bad experiences outweig
: Which will probably move to SVO. RO also codeshares with AF currently. The RO service leaves a lot to be desired. RO opens up a number of domestic de
: AirNZ, I have no dog in this fight. My homes are SGN & IAH. I WANT to fly VN. I want them to be a first choice airline. I don't care anything about D
: A very concise and well though out statement! Please explain this remark. Quite a few of us do not understand.
: There is NOTHING WRONG with VN is NOT on par with their competitors (like you said at this point). But at-least they are trying to be better. Just gi
: Since you've been in Vietnam for many years, you should already know that dealing with Vietnamese is difficult. It is like dealing with a young teena
: Well you guys must have flown a much different version of DL than me. Every international flight in Econ, DL has ben lousy, sour flight attendents, p
: = Most of us who work in the industry will not give you the complete story for a variety of reasons. Look at who AF partners to feed into flights in
: No argument with this. But I'm searching for what VN brings to the alliance. Part of that is current & future routes. It may well change and I've not
: I think we are at a point when attratcting a national airline of a big, fast growing and underserved country in itself has a tremendous value to an a
: DL is probably likely to start nonstop US-Vietnam service in time... either from LAX on an LR or SEA on an 772ER. and Vietnam is a key market in SE A
: Strong ties?? Nonsense. The US has only recently (in the last twenty years) had serious relationships with Vietnam. Twenty years of war has a way of
: The SGN/ VVTS now is not capable to handle big jet, escpecially during peak hours...you guy will supprise the queue and waiting time before arrive to
: Well, it looks like the BIG BOYS see something in VN that might be helpfull to the alliance and it is something that you do not see. So what you are
: 1) wouldn't need an LR for LAX-SGN at clost 7,000nm (just a bit over) that gives the 77E a 700nm space. Should work just fine on an ER. a 787 would l
: I would hope so. I am just trying to find out what that may be. Did not even suggest that. I'm just trying to target what benefits there are for DL t
: Given that aviation is relatively young, 20 years is a decent amount of time. And war does have a way of connecting peoples... there are lots of Viet
: Many of us are in the industry, yet we question the "myth" that AF will not allow MH in Skyteam. If you think you know the reason, then please let us
: should have worded it better, why don't we wait for DL to up grade it to something larger than a 75. If it can't work with a 777 (at least) from NRT,
: With VN being intergrated into ST that means MH chance of joining any alliances is super slim. I always thought MH would fit ST best compared to OW or
: For Skyteam an airline only has to relinquish its own programme if it is going to be an 'associate member' eg KQ and UX ( and formerly CM ) . "normal
: I think the problem is that DL can't pick up passengers in NRT. There's a lot of tourist as well as biz traffic from NRT to SGN & DL just cannot take
: and thats my point, If DL cant make NRT-SGN work on a larger aircraft(or at all) with the way things are now, it wouldn't work non-stop from the US.
: Agreed. I guess all MH fans and Malaysian aviation enthusiasts are devastated by the news that VN is chosen over MH. MH is a senior player with more
: If TG and SQ can coexist in Star, why can't MH and VN coexist in SkyTeam?
: TG is one of the founder of Star Alliance and SQ joined the alliance in the year 2000, 3 years after the alliance's establishment, a very early stage
: You contradicted yourself, what does DL/NW lack of local rights between NRT-SGN have to do with the potential non-stop market from the US to SGN? Pls
: Connecting service within Asia is entirely different from nonstop service from a US gateway.. likely where DL would have superior connectivity to the
: = Well, if you work in the industry, and are aware of the negotiations, you'd not need to ask. On a separate note, I think both RO and VN bring value
: Well, I do work in the industry, and I do need to ask. Are we just going to play word games or are you going to tell why AF does not want MH in the a
: DL is starting the market at a disadvantage not being able to pick up the local market. Can't. It's already using the smallest aircraft in the region
: actually I do too... I'm simply countering the notion that DL will roll over and pull out of the SGN market because VN comes in.... Until the US has
: Looks liks SGN is dropped after APR10.