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Fuel Stop For Airliners?  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13295 times:

I guess that refueling stops used to be quite common in aviation since airplanes did not always have the adequate range for their trips. To cross the Atlantic for example, a few Nordic stops are still made for the delivery of some aircraft types on one side or the other of the Atlantic.

My question is: are any regular flights today making only fuel stops (passengers staying on board)? How long does it take? If you have any hindsights... Thanks.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13288 times:



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
My question is: are any regular flights today making only fuel stops (passengers staying on board)? How long does it take? If you have any hindsights... Thanks.

The new BA all-business class service LCY-NYC with A318 makes a refueling at SNN on its way to New York as it can't take off at the maixum weight fom LCY beacuse of the short Rwy.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11722 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 13283 times:

One of the most high profile example's is BA's LCY-SNN-JFK service. Passengers deplane to clear US customs, so it's a case of kiling two birds with one stone.

I believe the KL flights from SXM also route via another airport to take on more fuel, and I know in Russia there are, or certainly were, countless flights with TU5 equipment between the West and East/Far East which required up to two fuel stops en route.


Dan  

[Edited 2009-11-05 07:45:51]


...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3016 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13241 times:

Well, ANC is used for cargo ops to Asia a lot, as far as I know. (?)


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Philippine Airlines makes fuel stops on the West-bound LAX/SFO-MNL flights at GUM. I flew it on the 744 and it took just about 45 minutes. We stayed on the plane while they fueled up and did a quick clean of the lavs and cabin.

East-bound flights are non-stop.


User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 980 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13101 times:

Have been through many a fuel stop. Usually passengers stay on. Actually none of my fuel stops have had any passengers get off, oh they wanted to after flying across the atlantic on a 757.
I have done LGW-YYZ direct with strong headwinds on a 757. total time 8h2m. I think we floated into YYZ on fumes. I found this odd, as many other times, most captains would stop and put a bit more in the tanks to continue on to YYZ. These flights were much shorter in time.



Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineClydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12859 times:

Shannon SNN, is still used as a refuel stop by a lot of Troop Charters from the USA to their Operations in the Middle East/Afghan area etc.
These are very regular with a few happening every day.

Also Lajes in the Azores too.

For Cargo Operations sometimes it's better to Fuel Stop in order to take maximun payload even though the aircraft could make the trip non stop with reduced payload.


User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1925 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12832 times:



Quoting Airman99o (Reply 5):
I think we floated into YYZ on fumes. I found this odd, as many other times, most captains would stop and put a bit more in the tanks to continue on to YYZ. These flights were much shorter in time.

I´m quite sure that you had enought fuel yet, remember that the pilots are as well in the plane so they are quite interested in having fuel enought.  Big grin

Sometimes the same plane can´t carry the same fuel, because some limitations, MZFW, MTOW......so not always in the same route a fuel stop in necessary.

I´ve heard some cases about B757 from Europe making Fuel stops in the east cost of Canada.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 3):
Well, ANC is used for cargo ops to Asia a lot, as far as I know. (?)

Actually ANC is more than a Fuel stop, It´s a big cargo hub.


A refuel could be done with pax on board always if:
- Emergency exits are clear.
- No Seat Belts.
- F/A in position for any emergency evacutaion.
- Fire brigade
I think that´s all.

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
To cross the Atlantic for example, a few Nordic stops are still made for the delivery of some aircraft types on one side or the other of the Atlantic

When i was in Cuba working we took our planes to Dinard and TLS for heavy checks, we had not permission to overfly the USA and we took the planes for a much longer trip.
Havana -- Caracas -- Guyana -- Fortaleza -- Cape Verde -- Canary Islands -- Dinard, when we did by the north was only.
Havana -- Terranova -- Iceland -- Dinard

Also it is amazing for Embraer to deliver some planes to Australia & Asia.......


User currently offlineDazbo5 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 2934 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12625 times:

Thomson Airways flights from BHX to CUN have a fuel stop in MAN outbound as the runway isn't long enough at BHX to allow the aircraft to take off with the required fuel. The flight operates via MAN to top the tanks up, as follows:

Dep BHX 08:00, Arr MAN 08:45, Boeing 767-300/ER, Flight No: TOM374
Dep MAN 10:15, Arr CUN 15:10, Boeing 767-300/ER, Flight No: TOM374

This flight operates year round although it'll operate non-stop in a couple of years once the runway at BHX has been extended by 400m.

This flight doesn't operate anymore as it was pulled, but I went from MAN to PVR and we had a fuel stop in SFB and were on the ground for an hour (details are on my trip report if you seach for Puerto Vallarta). We stayed on the aircraft while being refuelled and as mentioned above, it's not a problem as long as passengers don't have seat belts on, door are set to manual and cabin crew are ready to evacuate.

Darren

[Edited 2009-11-05 12:11:43]


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User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12513 times:



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
I believe the KL flights from SXM also route via another airport to take on more fuel

SXM is short enough to do SXM-AMS non-stop, even with the terrain at SXM. KL does not have any fuel stops, the service to UIO stops at GYE though, but that's due terrain and altitude limitations at UIO.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12403 times:

Before jets, Gander, New Newfoundland and Shannon, Ireland were the biggies for fuel stops on transAtlantic flights.
Some carriers chose Halifax, Nova Scotia instead of Gander.
In the Paciic, you had Honolulu, Wake Island and Guam.

A little airline history there, folks.
(I always thought I was smarter than a fifth grader).

safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12349 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):

The new BA all-business class service LCY-NYC with A318

I remember about this flight now. Isn't the A318 too slow? It's much slower than a 747 for instance. Don't you lose much of the time gain of flying LCY to LGA?

Thanks for the interesting answers. I wonder: How long does it take to go down 35000ft and back up in addition to the refuel time? Do you lose 2 hours? More?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12260 times:



Quoting A380900 (Reply 11):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 1):

The new BA all-business class service LCY-NYC with A318

I remember about this flight now. Isn't the A318 too slow? It's much slower than a 747 for instance. Don't you lose much of the time gain of flying LCY to LGA?

Thanks for the interesting answers. I wonder: How long does it take to go down 35000ft and back up in addition to the refuel time? Do you lose 2 hours? More?

Block time for BA LCY-JFK is 9:45. Block times for LHR-JFK nonstops vary from 7:45 to 8:40 depending on aircraft type and time of day and related airport congestion.

The benefit of the LCY-JFK flights is being able to avoid the time-consuming trip from the London financial district to LHR, very short check-in times at LCY (15 minutes with no checked baggage, and 20 minutes with), as well as avoiding possibly long waits in immigration and customs lines at JFK.

Eastbound, BA's nonstop block time JFK-LCY is 7:35. JFK-LHR times vary from 6:45 to 7:30 with most flights scheduled for about 7:05, so the impact of the slower A318 speed isn't great, and more than made up by the time savings at LCY vs. long walks and possibly long lines to clear immigration/customs at LHR. At LCY you can get from the aircraft to a taxi or train (Docklands Light Rail) in 5 minutes.


User currently offlineMariner63 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12040 times:



Quoting PHKLM (Reply 9):


Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
I believe the KL flights from SXM also route via another airport to take on more fuel

SXM is short enough to do SXM-AMS non-stop, even with the terrain at SXM. KL does not have any fuel stops, the service to UIO stops at GYE though, but that's due terrain and altitude limitations at UIO.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't KL stop in AUA for eastbound flights?


User currently offline777-200X From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12041 times:

CI's flight between TPE and JFK makes stop in ANC for refueling and clear passengers of the immigration. It takes advantage of ANC's less busy immigration facility so that passengers do not have to go thought immigration at JFK.

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11954 times:

Bangor, Maine is a common stop, especially for 757s coming west against the wind.

Also, the Delta flights from Stuttgart would stop at Bangor...767s...because (as I heard it) there is some mountain nearby that the planes cannot climb over with full tanks, hence a need to stop somewhere to top off. Sometimes that place is Bangor.

Maybe someone can confirm of correct the above.


User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11691 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 7):
A refuel could be done with pax on board always if:
- Emergency exits are clear.
- No Seat Belts.
- F/A in position for any emergency evacutaion.
- Fire brigade
I think that´s all.

Close  Smile

There also needs to be at least two exits that are open and have a means of egress attached to them for passengers to leave in case of emergency. For example an attached jetbridge and a set of steps at the rear of the a/c, with both doors already open. This is in case fueling somehow goes awry.



Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineNclmedic From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11501 times:

I remember taking a ZB flight some years ago to MLE. At the time, this flight was served by both the A330 and A300 and the two flights left at the same time from LGW. We both stopped in BAH for about an hour to refuel/cater/crew change, and thus we all got off.

As far as I'm aware, ZB now operate these flights only using the A330, and it flies non-stop, although I could be wrong!


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11452 times:



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

My question is: are any regular flights today making only fuel stops (passengers staying on board)? How long does it take? If you have any hindsights... Thanks.

I indeed thought KL, depending on what aircraft was used sometimes did a fuelstop at AUA.

Quoting Mariner63 (Reply 13):

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't KL stop in AUA for eastbound flights?

HV operating out of Skiathos stops at a nearby airport, and so do others I believe. Don't know however if pax (de)board at those stops.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11336 times:

Surprised no one mentioned the flights between the US and South Africa...

User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11277 times:

KLM does have a tech stop out of SXM because of the short runway if they have heavy loads

User currently offlineIahflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11083 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 7):
A refuel could be done with pax on board always if:
- Emergency exits are clear.
- No Seat Belts.
- F/A in position for any emergency evacutaion.
- Fire brigade
I think that´s all.

Don't forget about a jetbridge or airstairs.

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 16):
Close

There also needs to be at least two exits that are open and have a means of egress attached to them for passengers to leave in case of emergency. For example an attached jetbridge and a set of steps at the rear of the a/c, with both doors already open. This is in case fueling somehow goes awry.

God catch, I am completing a presentation on 114 CFR part 139.321 for my airport and we require a jetbridge or airstairs.



Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10863 times:

B6 will typically use SLC or DEN if a tech stop is required on the westbound transcons in the winter.

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10438 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):

The benefit of the LCY-JFK flights is being able to avoid the time-consuming trip from the London financial district to LHR, very short check-in times at LCY (15 minutes with no checked baggage, and 20 minutes with), as well as avoiding possibly long waits in immigration and customs lines at JFK.

Ok. I thought the final destination was LGA. I was thinking: since people pass through the custom in Shannen, wouldn't it be better to land the A318 at LGA? That would be great. I guess LGA cannot get international traffic even if people have already been through customs.


User currently offlineThePalauan From Guam, joined Oct 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10237 times:



Quoting ERJ (Reply 4):
Philippine Airlines makes fuel stops on the West-bound LAX/SFO-MNL flights at GUM. I flew it on the 744 and it took just about 45 minutes. We stayed on the plane while they fueled up and did a quick clean of the lavs and cabin.

East-bound flights are non-stop.

 checkmark  PR 103 and 105 make regular scheduled stops although it is dependant on the time of the year. During the summer season, we had practically no stops. Since about mid-September, I think, we've started to recieve the two flights again. We also sometimes receive PR 100/101, the MNL-HNL-MNL route. So far, we've had one instance where HA 456 (the other HNL-MNL-HNL rotation) make a stop here due to weather issues.

At times, we also get rare stops from other planes especially those flying Japan-Australia non-stop as we're near the halfway point between the two.

Other tech-stops we get now and then are 737 deliveries for HU (Hainan Airlines), CZ (China Southern), and MU (China Eastern). All these come from MAJ or HNL and usually overnight due to pilot duty hours.



You can take the boy out of the island, but not the island out of the boy!
25 WNCrew : I'm a bit confused as we refuel with pax onboard every single day and with only the jetway connected.
26 Viscount724 : LGA has a "perimieter rule" that restricts flights to destinations within 1,500 miles of LGA (except on Saturday when the rule doesn't apply). The on
27 Post contains images A380900 : Fair enough. If there can be exceptions to the rule, I'm sure this BA flight should be on the priority list. Except that, on second thought... On the
28 PlymSpotter : This is what I thought too. Could it be that only the 744 operated flights have to make a stop, whilst the MD11 can take off fully fueled? I think AF
29 Ginger727 : Allegiant (G4) regularly has its long stage length cross country flights stop in Wichita just for fueling. Pax remain onboard during the operation.
30 DelawareUSA : Been on the IAD-DKR-JNB and back a few times.. To JNB stop was not problem, coming back clearing security in DKR on the plane made you wonder what th
31 Kiqaboy : PRN --J FK had a fuel stop in LGG, because PRN has a short runway when it comes to cross the Atlantic, although it was only a seasonal flight during t
32 Dkny : Ethiopian ADD-FCO-IAD and IAD-FCO-ADD is a fuel stop in FCO. All passengers stay on board in FCO it's an hour stop and it includes a complete crew cha
33 Burkhard : Frequently also at HHN - seen United, American 777 there shortly.
34 XaraB : AFAIK, this is correct. Heavy loaded 747 equipment needs a refueling stop, while A340s, 777s and MD11s are able to go non-stop out of SXM. Think it h
35 JU068 : There is also the BEG-AUH operated by JU's 733. Since the plane can't fly the route it stops in LCA, or previously BEY for refuelling. But you can fly
36 SQ321 : I will soon be flying with TAP Air Portugal from Lisbon to Caracas rtn on an A330. On the return leg it makes 'an intermediate stop' in Funchal. I was
37 Wukka : My favorite, and I say this very lightly, was a flight from CVG to SAT by way of Lafayette, Arkansas on a CRJ2 (IIRC) a few years ago. Delayed out of
38 Imberry : What about DL's ATL-DKR-JNB route? Also I think until a couple of years ago SAA flew from ATL to JNB using an A346 with a fuel stop in the Azores on t
39 DAL763ER : You don't need to go through customs when exiting the US. There are no international departure terminals in the US with passport control facilities.
40 Post contains links and images Boeing727 : ...some of my favorite pictures... View Large View MediumPhoto © Julian Whitelaw View Large View MediumPhoto © Christopher Sundseth Boeing7
41 Dazbo5 : Another that springs to mind; Monarch have a fuel stop in Bahrain when operating flights from the UK to Goa with their A300B4-605R's. Darren
42 SA7700 : JNB-DKR-JFK on SA also has a fuel stop. Pax also board and deplane in DKR. Due to the fact that pax deplane and board in DKR, USA regulations require
43 JU068 : How long is the flight ATL-JNB? It must be too long!!
44 Tharanga : i've heard both of these. unscheduled, but they happen. I wonder if anybody has stats on how common these are.
45 Herc4ever : 14 hours, 57 minutes. Too long for me.
46 Wexfordflyer : It varies from carrier to carrier. I know of some that do not require fire brigade presence and also ones that do not require at least two exits to b
47 Dazbo5 : By manual I was meaning disarmed, ie not automatic / armed Darren
48 IAirAllie : Also a crew rest and catering stop. The specifics, are nation, airport, airline and client specific.
49 Flyibaby : Ahh..its not too bad. I just did it last month, and it was a good flight. Just a suggestion though if sitting in coach, bring an extra cushion for yo
50 Planenutz : Years ago I flew Transavia AMS-KTM with a fuel stop in DXB. This was on a 757. We stopped in DXB for one hour, and were asked to offload and wait in t
51 As777 : ANC is a large cargo hub, you are correct. But there are a lot of cargo flights that just come in to refuel and do a crew change, then leave again. A
52 AlexEU : Emirates flies Dubai - Entebbe with a fuel stop in Addis Ababa. Pax stay on board while refueling, although some pax disembark if their final destinat
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