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UA Adds Accra, Lagos, Bahrain And ORD-BRU  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6967 posts, RR: 23
Posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22179 times:

I guess DL won't be alone in Africa anymore.


232 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1881 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22116 times:

wow, wow! good for them to try Africa. It's about time somebody else decided it wasn't too scary.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21998 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22054 times:

CO had a plan that was shelved. My guess is the new CO/UA partnership makes these flights possible for UA. CO will focus more on Europe and South America and UA will expand into Africa and the ME as well as continue to focus on the Pacific and Asia.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 887 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22057 times:

Will be interesting to see how DL responses as this is the first competition they have had to Lagos / Accra isn't it?

The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 8189 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22021 times:

Good for UA!

Washington DC is the ideal hub or UA to serve these markets from.

It is what it is...
User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 22022 times:

Given UA's close relationship with QR, shouldn't they also launch ORD-DOH (except they lack a suitable plane) ?

Good job on IAD-KWI-BAH, although i would question why BAH and not AUH (isn't AUH much more a booming town than BAH?)

Good job on ORD-BRU too...finally someone to give AA a run for their money (if they still operate that route)

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21974 times:

Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 5):
Good job on IAD-KWI-BAH, although i would question why BAH and not AUH (isn't AUH much more a booming town than BAH?)

I know they are different markets, but UA already serves DXB, and AUH is only about 70 miles from there..


life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineTommy767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21933 times:

Nice UA! This was a surprise. I'm happy for them. Hope it all works out too.

User currently offlineBsalako From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21867 times:

This is excellent news for the large mostly middle-class population of Nigerians and Ghanians in the DC metro area.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21805 times:

I have to give UA credit for going where the money is.... Africa has been a very rich market for DL... UA found its way to the Arab middle east and is doing well there....

so much for the idea that it would be AA and CO that would fly there...

and CO and UA cannot share revenue on their respective flights.. joint ventures are not allowed between 2 US airlines. CO can code on UA's flights where it is permitted but they cannot share revenue.

also, to be clear, UA is adding one flight to Africa that is serving both ACC and LOS... also it is entirely possible that Nigeria may not approve UA's entrance into the Nigeria market. They are not happy that no Nigerian airline is serving the US and yet DL continues to grwo.... they aren't terribly enthused about seeing another US carrier - doesn't matter who it is.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 10401 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21798 times:

Hold on.......is that a 767 going to LOS?  duck 

User currently offlineAirborne1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21726 times:

I believe United already has the route authority from pan am to LOS

User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21723 times:

Why Bahrain? Their KWI flight serves primarily U.S. military and contractors stationed in Iraq, but Bahrain?

User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 581 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21698 times:

So what international service are they going to drop to add IAD-ACC-LOS and ORD-BRU? Those aircraft have to be pulled from someplace. It is nice to see UA add another European destination from ORD (baring AMS, MUC or CDG is not being dropped) but could they not have chosen another destination like VIE, ATH, TXL, BUD, PRG, or LIS where there is no service from ORD?

Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21659 times:

Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 13):
So what international service are they going to drop to add IAD-ACC-LOS and ORD-BRU?


User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21564 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
UA is adding one flight to Africa that is serving both ACC and LOS... also it is entirely possible that Nigeria may not approve UA's entrance into the Nigeria market. They are not happy that no Nigerian airline is serving the US and yet DL continues to grwo.... they aren't terribly enthused about seeing another US carrier - doesn't matter who it is.

Doesn't matter, really.

New York City, Maryland, and Northern Virginia probably have the largest Ghanaian populations in the USA -- many doctors and professionals -- a large enough expat population to have formerly had Ghana Airways flying into both JFK and BWI -- that is before GH went belly-up.

Service to LOS isn't needed to make the flight profitable.

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3257 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21561 times:

ACC-IAD will be UA's longest 763 flight, both distance and duration. It'll be interesting to see how it performs on a route that long, given how DL seems to have a bit of trouble with their 763's on the Africa and Middle East routes.

Maybe time for UA to consider 763 winglets  bigthumbsup 

User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21442 times:

Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 13):
It is nice to see UA add another European destination from ORD (baring AMS, MUC or CDG is not being dropped) but could they not have chosen another destination like VIE, ATH, TXL, BUD, PRG, or LIS where there is no service from ORD?

I believe the idea is to feed the Brussels Airline hub at BRU now that LH owns them.

User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21417 times:

Fantastic news!!! Made my week!

Is this the first US airline to serve Bahrain? Good use of an aircraft that would otherwise be collecting sand (dust).

Very happy to see UA go head to head with DL in Africa. I always thought IAD would be a great gateway for Africa, geographically and geopolitically...

Quoting Timberwolf24 (Reply 13):
So what international service are they going to drop to add IAD-ACC-LOS and ORD-BRU? Those aircraft have to be pulled from someplace.

I wondered the same thing... would it be possible to convert any of UA's domestic 763 fleet to international use for the shorter trips or doesn't they have the legs?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
My guess is the new CO/UA partnership makes these flights possible for UA.

This is kind of thing I was hoping the UA/CO partnership would bring...I would think that the Middle East and Africa flights will directly benefit from some CO connecting IAH pax...

User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21352 times:

First DL, now UA. Where is AA in all of this?  mad 

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11158 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21313 times:

Glad to see UA adding Bahrain.

Bahrain is doing pretty well economically and it's just a short hop across the King Fahd Causeway to Khobar/Dhahran/Dammam and the rest of the oil-rich Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia.

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21282 times:

Good move by UA to claim a share of the growing African market.

Having said that, I'm not too crazy about the tag-on itinerary for LOS (or Bahrain for that matter). It makes their service less competitive with DL from many markets...and tag services are typically very expensive to operate for the additional revenue increment. Although it all depends how you do the math, as they say. I would think UA will operate ACC and LOS independently before long.

As others have suggested, ACC may be a stand-alone service anyway, if UA can't secure approval from the Nigerian aviation authorities.

User currently offlineTimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 581 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21275 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 17):
I believe the idea is to feed the Brussels Airline hub at BRU now that LH owns them.

I will admit I completely forgot about that and that does make perfect sense. I personally would like to have seen UA open a new route that is currently not served from ORD. VIE and LIS are current Star hubs and ATH will soon be a Star hub all have no current service to ORD it would have been nice for UA to announce one of those cities.

Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlinePellegrine From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined Mar 2007, 2669 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21124 times:

Took UA long enough, they could have started IAD-ACC-LOS 5 years ago.
I'd rather eventually see separate 763s on ACC and LOS if they can gain market share (which they have a very good chance if they market it well and stick it out).

oh boy!!!
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 10401 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 21123 times:

Quoting Airborne1 (Reply 11):
I believe United already has the route authority from pan am to LOS

Wouldn't matter 99% of route authoritys are gone after 90 days. Alot of routes DL got from PA had to be re-apporved after DL didn't use them for years.

Quoting Frostbite (Reply 21):
if UA can't secure approval from the Nigerian aviation authorities.

and this is the true problem. With DL having to run a 777 from Atlanta what are the chances of them getting the rights with a 76?(it is so sad that there is a good chance they wont get it because of the 767)

25 Cubsrule : Not necessarily - there are 744s in storage. DL does seem to have trouble, though the lower density on UA's aircraft might make the difference. When
26 WorldTraveler : perhaps UA is adding the LOS tag knowing theyhave to get their name in the hopper... ACC can work for UA on its own but DL is already adding capacity
27 STT757 : Large US Military (Navy) presence in Bahrain, the US Navy Fifth fleet is based in Bahrain.
28 Addd : Ah - that does it.
29 Mcdu : Not sure you can call the UA service substandard. With a 3 class airplane consisting of lie flat seats in both F and C and economy +, UA will have a
30 LIPZ : The question is who will survive on Brussels-Chicago market. UA or AA?
31 RJpieces : Great to see some expansion from United!
32 ElmoTheHobo : Doha, Bahrain and Kuwait all have significant United States military presences.
33 WA707atMSP : In 1980, Pan Am served BAH as a stop on their round the world route, replacing Tehran. TWA and Braniff applied to serve Bahrain nonstop from the US i
34 United787 : IAD is becoming quite the international hub for United. First Europe and South America...then the Middle East and Far East Asia...now Africa! It makes
35 STT757 : Basically CO and UA switched in the mid '80s, CO to CLE and UA to IAD.
36 TWA902fly : Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that SFO-CDG, before being cancelled was operated with a 763... If so, it was a little
37 JasonCRH : wrongt - United and Continental have applied for and received antitrust immunity. they, along with Lufthansa, will all be sharing revenue over the Atl
38 Runway23 : UA will. AA relies enormously on connections right now on BRU-ORD route. Once their partnership with SN dissolves all AA codeshares will be gone, sim
39 United787 : And in the 90's DEN went from CO to UA...now they are dating pretty heavily...
40 BigGSFO : I wouldn't be so sure. Who's to say both airlines won't be successful. AA competes rather well against UA in the Chicago-Europe arena.
41 Ripcordd : Well SN is part of the code share the major part of the BRU code share and the reason why it was upgraded to a 777 from Summer till Nov is the connect
42 STT757 : Actually CO pretty muched handed over the keys to their DEN hub to F9,
43 WorldTraveler : UA's one stop service to LOS, not its aircraft is substandard to DL's nonstop service. The entire WAS area accounts for about 15% of the Nigeria mark
44 Pellegrine : 1 stop is substandard yes. But DL's 763 interiors...especially in business...are far substandard to the new UA F/J configurations. That will definite
45 Frostbite : But DL serves Abuja, not Lagos, nonstop from JFK. If DL had its wishes, it would have served the primary market (LOS) for many months now. I am very
46 Cubsrule : Aside from the LOS/ABJ discrepancy (which is out of Delta's hands), I think this statement is correct. What's interesting, though, is to look at the
47 USAirALB : Didn't UA serve Kenya before?
48 LAXintl : As mentioned good business flow, plus US Navy traffic. AUH can easily be served via car from DXB. Yes what they have been asking for since the demise
49 STT757 : Also the US is drawing down forces in Iraq, which also means less need for contractors, media etc.. The US should be down to around 50,000 troops in
50 USPIT10L : Nope. These will be United's first flights to Africa.
51 Cyberual : @LAXINTL.. Since you are very well informed about UA, do you know if UA will be adding any flts out of LAX? I'm a furloughed and this is a great news!
52 KGAIflyer : Am I mistaken or does UA also have some aged 767-200s in storage?
53 United787 : Well there is plenty of 744s available to UA, if this frees up a 777 than a 777 could free up a 767 somewhere...
54 Flyiguy : Yes there are 767-200's and 747-400's in storage if it got that drastic looking for aircraft... Just my 0.02
55 Flyiguy : Not nly would it free up a 777, but one with a bunk in the rear cargo hold which is on all the Pacific/ME flights usually since it requires the duel
56 C010T3 : I'm sad that they're reusing the old GIG-MIA and MIA-GIG flight numbers, UA990 and 991.
57 Flyiguy : UA has 7 747-400's and 7 767-200's but only 2 of which are ER models in storage at Victorville. If UA was that short on aircraft though I could see th
58 Ssublyme : Quite frankly I think a tag on route to LOS will be short lived. Especially as LOS comes after the ACC stop. UA will need to make this a none-stop if
59 Flyiguy : Why would they have to upgrade? It wasn't the fact of a 767 flying the route that made the Nigerian government tell DL the aircraft was sub-par, it w
60 DeltaL1011man : I believe he is talking about Domstic flights which the airlines cant have JV, aa far as the Atlantaic you are right CO/UA do have a JV I believe(and
61 SurfandSnow : WOW! Here I was thinking UA may be exploring int'l expansion along the lines of IAD-IST/TLV/DEL, and then this announcement! Certainly a shocking yet
62 Cubsrule : What makes you say that? Europe is fairly competitive on time - from a city with nonstop service to major European hubs, it's only a 2 or 3 hour diff
63 Qantas744ER : That makes 0.04 already
64 A330243 : This is a very good move on United's part. All the above mentioned routes make sense for various reasons: IAD-KWI-BAH: 1.) Bahrain is the home base of
65 Ssublyme : It wasn't just the interior. The 767 was clearly not the right aircraft for ATL - LOS. The lift capability wasn't adequate for the typical lbs/person
66 ThegreatRDU : wow this came out of nowhere very good can it be profitable? I'm skeptical.....does anyone know the loads on DL routes to Africa?
67 Post contains images UnitedFA07 : Wouldn't mind that one! DL can keep it! Think it might go from daily service to 3 or 4 times a week in the winter season. Personally I don't want to
68 DeltaL1011man : Well Its just seems like alot of people would A) like to just fly non-stop and B) fly the US carriers. While I don't believe its going to really hurt
69 Ssublyme : 3 Carriers. plus the carriers to Europe.
70 FlyPNS1 : People in general prefer nonstops when they can get them....not only for the shorter routing, but less chance of losing luggage and less overall hass
71 Flyiguy : You forgot the tag on from GRU to GIG ...
72 Flyiguy : UA has downgraded DME to 4x weekly for the winter but time will tell if it stays that way when the spring returns... Just my 0.02 and then some
73 DETA737 : Actually TWA did serve BAH from February 1977 until January of 1979 via ATH. Pan Am then began flying the route but this lasted only until 1982. So t
74 Addd : In defense of IAD-DME, it can be said that, with AA killing its ORD-DME and DL making ATL-SVO seasonal, the market for US-Moscow direct flights is mu
75 DeltaL1011man : who is the 3rd? its NRT-PEK
76 AznMadSci : Though a bit of backtracking, what about feeding DME traffic via SQ and IAH?
77 Transpac787 : For the winter, goes back to transpac nonstop on the summer.
78 Addd : CO is no doubt is going to take care of that - although, realistically, IAH connections' catchment area is limited to TX and Deep South (incl. Florid
79 I380North : Great to see another US carrier fly to 6 continents!!!! I think UA international offering is better than DL but I think UA may be making the same ini
80 MaverickM11 : KWI was never going to be a high volume market; it's a thin, high fare market and adding a tag is not a bad way to use the empty seats and down aircr
81 Thenoflyzone : ACC-IAD is 8,523 km's. A walk in the park for a B763 (winglets or not), even with the headwind and non-direct routing. Thenoflyzone
82 Piaflyer : the aircraft type will be a 777, read the whole article, also on skynet it shows it as a 777
83 FLY777UAL : No, ACC and LOS will be 767, BAH will be the existing 777 from KWI. The flights aren't even loaded into the GDS yet, there's no way they can show in
84 WorldTraveler : DL is flying a 764 to ACC in the summer when UA will be starting as they have in recent years as well. DL is also using a 777 to LOS from ATL. DL has
85 Addd : Returning? It is not a seasonal service for UA...
86 Airsrpska : Why not to have service of UA from ORD to BEG ? That would be nice to see it, especially because in Chicago metro area you have over 200 000 people f
87 Flighty : That's what you need. I was just going to say that as long as the outer destination brings 60 or 80 extra passengers onboard for the very expensive l
88 Sflaflight : Sleeping as usual. I love AA, but I wish they weren't so conservative in the route planning department!
89 Transpac787 : Not quite that simple. On cargo-intensive routes, such as to & from LOS, EZE, SCL, etc, the 763 has a bad habit of becoming balance critical. Since i
90 Pellegrine : Wonderful the magnanimous 764 and the 77L with the flat bed seats or the antiquated cradle type 764s and 77Es??? This is very true. I don't see KWI u
91 OA412 : Agreed I don't think it's a matter of DL not wanting to pursue the market again (although I think they will at some point) as much as the resistance
92 LAXintl : Pan Am did. 747SP's Cargo door is too small.
93 Pellegrine : Ah ok. Never knew, I'm so young. Makes perfect sense. Didn't even think about the door. ROFL...
94 Panamair : Indeed it was JFK-Dhahran (PA24 / PA25). Later on (late '80s or early '90s), way after Dhahran was cancelled, Pan Am did go back into KSA but this ti
95 The777Man : DL probably does not have more frequencies to ACC then 7 so they probably have to split if they want to serve ACC from both ATL and JFK. The777Man
96 BrightCedars : BRU makes perfect sense with the entry of SN in Star Alliance. SN is in need of new partners accross the pond and UA to ORD plus CO to EWR will provid
97 Rscaife1682 : The choice of not having to get a transit visa will be very attractive to most travellers. RYAN FLTOPS
98 BRJ : Yes Delta is operating the 77E on the ATL-LOS route. Just to clarify - Abuja is ABV, as ABJ is actually Abidjan, Ivory Coast.
99 Ripcordd : AA gets more and most code share out of BRU from Jet to India than from SN that being said they will be fine with the loss of SN.....It will hurt no d
100 KU747 : It looks like everyone is agreeing that UA flights to KWI is not doing as good as before. Don't you think if UA reduces the frequency from daily fligh
101 Cjuniel74 : WOW is all I can say! Myself and a buddy of mine who works for UA were JUST talking about the African market yesterday before I saw the announcement.
102 Jfk777 : AA interest lies in South Africa, as Miami doesn't have a large African ethnic diaspora like Washington or New York. The African market from JFK is g
103 MogandoCI : #1 Do all military people fly on special discounted military fares, including the lieutenants and the generals? If so, doesn't that destroy the RASM?
104 Seatback : Excuse me? Didn't you see yesterday's exciting announcement that AA is moving up its China service by a week???
105 727forever : If they approve it in the first place, I give it 6 months or less before Nigeria demands that UA upgrade to a 777 as they did with DL. Really, I've n
106 UALWN : Who needs a transit visa to connect in Europe from the US on to Africa?
107 Cubsrule : They do - but LAX-LOS and DFW-ACC passengers won't be getting a nonstop any time soon, and those are the passengers I was discussing. UA will pick up
108 The777Man : Probably passport holders from most African countires. The777Man
109 Abrelosojos : = This summarizes the entire argument for the BAH tag very well. Do you work in network planning ? = In the long-term, no airlines make a profit . Ma
110 FlyPNS1 : But even for the connecting traffic, the U.S. carriers option will likely be preferred. I'd much rather connect through IAD than LHR. Less hassle and
111 Ssublyme : It's been atleast 2yrs since the first Western European country waived transit visa requirement for Nigerians and Ghanians flying to countries like U
112 UALWN : Foreign nationals who have a valid US visa can transit through most (all?) European airports without the need of a transit visa when going from/to th
113 Cubsrule : As would I, but JFK versus LHR is a much, much closer question, and I think I'd spend an hour or two extra to avoid JFK.
114 727forever : Do you think that LHR would only be an hour or two? That seems more like a 6 hour minimum diversion. 727forever
115 Thenoflyzone : Very insightful post. Thank you. Did not know that about the 767. How about the 777, does it have the same restrictions? Thenoflyzone
116 Soups : I wouldn't be surpised if they go daily ATL-ACC and JFK-ACC during peak seasons (mainly xmas) flights are usually overbooked month in advance i recal
117 Cubsrule : From most places in North America with an LHR flight, the difference in travel to ACC between LHR and JFK is about 2 hours.
118 FlyPNS1 : I don't know about that. Using DFW, the trip added about 7 hours on BA via LHR vs. UA via IAD. Using ATL, the trip added about 5 hours on BA via LHR
119 Mayor : I wonder if the Nigerian government might not refuse to grant the rights to UA just because they are a tag on to the ACC flight??
120 Cubsrule : DFW-LHR-ACC on AA/BA is 20:00. On DL via JFK, it's 16:25, so it's a bit more than three hours different. ORD-LHR-ACC is 17:35 minimum via LHR, 14:24
121 Transpac787 : Not at all. The 777 was designed, of course, to do 14+ hour flights from the get-go. It can take LD3's and pallets in both fwd and aft cargo bays and
122 WorldTraveler : I'm talking about the economy, not UA because DL is an airline... DL is capable of doing the same thing all airlines do. exactly... thanks AA won't c
123 Abrelosojos : = I was under this false pretense that Delta had reneged on both announced flights and cut back quickly on services where it did not make "long-term"
124 FlyPNS1 : Not totally true. In markets like ORD, SFO and DEN, UA will still command a premium over DL, because those markets have large loyalty to UA and will
125 Thenoflyzone : Yes. In fact, the quote is that is crosses the pond more than any other aircraft type COMBINED. DL, CO, AA and AC all fly across the pond with huge q
126 Cws818 : UA will be competing with more airlines than just DL in this market. But what would the point be - it would hurt DL too.
127 Transpac787 : Is this your blind patriotism to DL speaking?? So DL limited the number of checked bags on routes like LOS-ATL was just some shenanigan, not an opera
128 727forever : While Worldtraveler does have an intense loyalty to DL, I agree with what he says. DL is running a payload restriction program on the long flights to
129 Transpac787 : Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, all DL 767-300ER's are 407,000# MGTOW save for ships 1607-1613 that have 412,000# MGTOW. Haha I know, b
130 OA412 : Anyone know what the split is in terms of PW and GE powered 763ER's in the current DL fleet?
131 Transpac787 : 15x active 763A's, only 4x have PW's. Important to note though, those 4 are the only DL 763A's that are ETOPS and go to Hawaii. 57x active 763ER's, 2
132 Alibo5NGN : A direct non stop flight to LOS is inevitable. Nigeria is the 500lb Gorilla in African Aviation. The equation in Nigeria is simple: "who ever flies a
133 OA412 : Excellent. Thanks for the info. I tend to agree. I think that once UA gets a feel for the markets, we will evenutally see both cities receive dedicat
134 AznMadSci : Out of curiosity, while many talk about making LOS nonstop as DL has done, for safety from a crew perspective, wouldn't it be safer for crew to overni
135 I380North : Please tell us what airlines have done that. The last time I checked BA, VS, LH, AF, KL, DL and EK (2xdaily) still fly to LOS. or is this your imagin
136 OA412 : Whether or not these airlines serve LOS is not the point at issue here. There have been threads in the past indicating that airlines have their crew
137 I380North : What exactly is your point. Well, since you can not name the airlines that avoid LOS to overnight in ACC. I will assume you are ill-informed and have
138 Post contains links AznMadSci : Here's what I dug up from the Airline Routes Website: New Alitalia-AirOne Network from Rome Jan 09 and Alitalia 2009 Summer Network overview mentions
139 Post contains links OA412 : No need for the attitude. As the previous poster mentioned there are indeed airlines that tag ACC onto LOS in order for their crew to avoid overnight
140 I380North : if LOS was unsafe why would DL apply for additional JFK-LOS which was denied. I did say you are ill-informed and I stand by that. First this is 2009
141 Byrdluvs747 : Huh? Did you skip 2009 altogether? This was a pretty nasty year for violence in northern and southern Nigeria. Any responsible airline would be conce
142 Alibo5NGN : Enough of old out dated and worn out cliches. Lagos is just as safe as any city with 12 million people. Safer by far than Mexico City, Johannesburg o
143 Ssublyme : Hopefully this gets alleviated in the not too distant future. In general most US based companies are timid about Africa, more so than European and As
144 Jfk777 : If JNB is the destination a 77E would have to stop on the way back, but Miami to Capetown could be done both ways nonstop with a 77E. SAA flew Miami
145 BMI727 : Are you defending the Nigerian government strong-arming a private corporation into changing their services just because they want TVs?
146 A330243 : 1.) BAH probably gets a lot of contractors flying in and out, so this would help boost yields. 2.) Obviously they have to provide onward connections
147 Transpac787 : You are remarkably ill-informed as well, since UA crews will never layover in LOS!! There will be two overnight crews in ACC. The crew that brought i
148 Cubsrule : Are you suggesting that Nigeria poses no more operational difficulties than, say, Canada? That's just wrong. Nigeria may not be as bad as some say, b
149 WorldTraveler : I've seen actual 763ER data from multiple airlines. The aircraft is fully capable of 12 - 12.30 hrs in the air or 13 hrs block w/ winglets and full p
150 I380North : Gee..another misinformation or spin. Yes, the Nigerian aviation minister now famous "crappy plane" comments related to the non availability of PTV on
151 Transpac787 : Since you can provide no hard numbers or evidence yourself other than us blindly taking your word for it, I'll do it myself. Delta 767-332ER with win
152 I380North : so I will quess that you are a UA employee or you have an inside track of UA routing. UA is yet to fly the route so it can not be said that UA overni
153 WorldTraveler : that's fine in a free market but global aviation is most definitely not a free market. If other countries allowed US carriers unlimited access to the
154 Transpac787 : Yes, they will. The crew cannot operate ACC-LOS after having just flown IAD-ACC. They'd long since be outside of duty time to schedule them to operat
155 Ssublyme : Nope, not at all, but what you just wrote is yet another misconception. The bulk of the complaints by passengers were service related, specifically m
156 Diesel33 : Out of curiosity, what would the crews do for the almost 5 hour layover in LOS? Stay on the plane?
157 Transpac787 : Yet I should hope none. If it did, that represents a serious miscalculation on the part of DL. Of course you'd know it is illegal to dispatch an airc
158 Ssublyme : Over-reaction to misinformation of how dangerous LOS is. Afterall homeland security should have let them duplicate the same strategy on their planned
159 Transpac787 : Grab a bite to eat in the airport NW does this rather frequently with the NRT "interport" flying, crews flying two interport flights per day. ICN-NRT
160 OA412 : You're using specious reasoning here. Airlines fly to unsafe destinations all the time and even increase flying to those destinations when it proves
161 I380North : I am attempted to call you out but I pass. Since there are two sets of flight crew, why could they take it all the way to LOS and layover for 2 days,
162 BMI727 : Security is just another expense on the balance sheet. If they can take the hit of extra security and still turn a profit, they will.
163 United1 : That would be an option however FAA regulations won't allow that to occur. The Pilot and F/A routing will look just like Transpac posted above. Wheth
164 Cubsrule : When have DoT or FAA told an airline what airplane to use on a specific route? Compare the situation with US/China, where US got the frequency despit
165 Viscount724 : I can't see many people wanting to take a routing YYC-DMM that requires 3 stops and 2 connections, and still requires a 50+ mile trip by road to get
166 Klwright69 : I would like to chime in about BAH. I have lived in AUH now for a couple of months. I have not yet been to BAH. I flew over BAH flying to AUH on EY. M
167 Directorguy : I'm wondering if this is some sort of preemptive move to block a possible GF/AA nonstop to North America. BAH as mentioned has demand for North Ameri
168 DeltaL1011man : Um, Aren't all the longest routes arcross the Atlantic still on 763s? Or did i miss something. Right and the 76Qs have the smaller GE CF6-80A2(IIRC t
169 A330243 : The flight probably had a light load, as a lot of the traffic on the Gulf carriers from NYC is connecting traffic to cities in the Sub-continent, nam
170 Airborne1 : United will layover in ACC.. LOS will be a turn because once we land we can't continue for Legality issues.. same for BAH.. we will still layover in
171 727forever : I've flown a lot of airliners both big and small and I can honestly say that I've only come close to MZFW once. It was when I flew freight on the 727
172 Transpac787 : If this is what I think it is, NW calls it a "short-release", though I'm not completely sure. I don't see a revision date so this could be wrong but
173 Cubsrule : You are correct on the 4-pilot crew, but can't IAD-ACC, ACC-LOS-ACC, and ACC-IAD all be done with 3-pilot crews (and ACC-LOS-ACC would actually only
174 WorldTraveler : given that the LR is doing the same thing, I have a feeling it is related to 1. DL's commitment to obtaining any revenue possible - including cargo -
175 FL787 : On a certain frequent flyer site, there is information that could mean UA starting ORD-FCO. It seems UA has requested slots for it in FCO.
176 727forever : IAD-ACC/ACC-IAD might be able to be done by a 3 man crew. Depending on the winds, JFK-ACC/ACC-JFK have to be sped up regularly to keep the average bl
177 Cubsrule : Lower taxi times at IAD should help; JFK is pretty congested at 1600 when DAL166 leaves.
178 DeltaL1011man : Is it really? I have talked to anyone who has done it post 764 so i have no idea what/who if anything/ its leaving. I would like to see the numbers t
179 Pellegrine : I wouldn't be surprised either. People should know in this forum that many travellers US-Africa are used to paying $2000+ in Y. DL is usually far bel
180 Cubsrule : UA has 6 744s in the desert and others that sit at hubs for twelve hours or more. There may be a shortage of 767s, but there isn't a shortage of wide
181 Pellegrine : Don't most people realize that UA would be hesitant to pull a big, fuel-thirsty 744 from the desert and bring it into service? And upguage which 772
182 Transpac787 : Quite right, they almost certainly won't, but to play devil's advocate there are a ton of routes that could use a 744 upgrade. A few to name: IAD-DXB
183 Cubsrule : Maybe not, but the existing ones are not well-utilized - have a look at the hangar next time you arrive on 14R at ORD.
184 United1 : It was posted on another forum that UA applied for slots to operate ORD-FCO... 1 FCO S10 UA 904 A 08:15 08:15 28MAR 23OCT 1234567 763 183 ORD ORD 2 FC
185 WorldTraveler : But DL doesn't operate 115s. It might change the equation but since DL uses 110s, they clearly have been leaving non-revs behind... people here have
186 Kingsford : Isn't it the goal for UAL to use Brussels as a hub to Africa and the mentionned destination will actually be served by SN with UAL code-share?
187 Cubsrule : This is a UA flight on UA metal IAD-ACC-LOS-ACC-IAD.
188 Ualcsr : As I understand it, IAD-FCO is doing extremeley well and much better than UA ever anticipated. I flew it not too long ago and while loads don't mean
189 United1 : Thats what I have been hearing as well, surprisingly despite FCOs reputation as a tourist vs business destination, FCO is exceeding every expectation
190 MAH4546 : Simply not true. Route authorities can last in perpetuity, and most acquired before the late 1990s still are there. Dormancy is only an issue when ro
191 OA412 : Which they are not and that was the "problem" many on here had with the Nigerian governments decision.
192 MAH4546 : That's entirely subjective. Compared to UA's 763s and most planes crossing the Atlantic - including Delta's own A330s and 764s - yes, Delta's 763's h
193 Panamair : Yes, actually. The LX A330-200s, which still ply important transatlantic routes such as JFK-ZRH.
194 MilesDependent : Speaking of layovers... I wonder What will happen with the turn in BAH? There is a 6.5hr layover there... United 982 Kuwait to Bahrain 2:50 p.m. 3:55
195 Sydscott : Allow me to clarify so we can get back on topic - Nigeria didn't feel, or say, that DL 763 interiors were shoddy or second class. What they did say w
196 WorldTraveler : UA has 777s as well... there is nothing objective about saying that DL is supposed to provide their best airplane but UA is not. While talking about
197 Kiwiandrew : Agreed ,West Africans are the only people on the planet who can make the average American look rational when it comes to luggage ! If UA have calcula
198 Cubsrule : ...and how is the hard product on UA's 777 better than on the 763?
199 MAH4546 : Haitians can give them a run for their money. AA even has independent check-in lines at MIA, FLL and JFK for Haiti flights, and I assume other airlin
200 Aircanada014 : Thats great news, nice to see UA expanding International especially into Africa, more competitions. Keep up the good work UA. I wish them luck. Now if
201 BMI727 : I'd put my mom up against any of them. Isn't FCO pretty low yielding for a European destination?
202 UAL777 : Once they are refitted, it will smoke DL.
203 747fan : But unlike DL, in UA's case the 777 isn't their best product, the 763 is. Neither has nose-to-tail AVOD, but the 763's have PTV's in all classes as w
204 Transpac787 : While it is indeed a long time, it is still within duty and flight time limits. I don't have the copy of the FAR's in front of me so I could very wel
205 MAH4546 : Highly seasonal, but IAD-FCO probably attracts good government traffic.
206 USAirALB : With all the hype about Africa and stuff, you can call me crazy but can anyone else see US trying PHL-CAI?
207 MAH4546 : I'll call you crazy. Also, while geographically in Africa, Cairo shares demographics with Middle East markets.
208 747fan : I have no doubt ORD-FCO would have good loads (not necessarily yields) in the summer, but I believe AA suspended this route last winter (not sure abo
209 USAirALB : I know, they would do terrible on it, but its the stupid thing I think Dougie would try.
210 ZweiBierebitte : And just wait until the 777s start becoming retrofitted! They'll not only be getting the same J and F seats as the 767s and 747s, but I believe Y wil
211 USAirALB : And I dont think there 767s could make it...
212 MAH4546 : In the past, during the winter, AA split FCO frequencies between ORD and JFK, but now winter is just JFK-FCO. ORD-FCO operates during the summer dail
213 BMI727 : I wonder if people will ever learn better. I went to Rome in May and it was already miserable. I can't even imagine July. That is an interesting thou
214 USAirALB : True..but I can see them trying it one day. It is hard to get to Egypt from the US. Only DL and Egypt Air of you havt to got o EU.
215 747fan : More like the route wouldn't have the best economics because it wouldn't work period, not to mention their 762's don't have the range for that (not t
216 Post contains images Pellegrine : Thank you professor I knew this already. You think these tired la-z-boy looking things: Are equal to UA's new J product? Bless your loyalty. I will p
217 Panamair : A little different between India and Nigeria...A lot of the India yield trashing is being done by the Middle East carriers (EY, QR, EK). For US-Afric
218 Bralo20 : When SN joins Star Alliance, which will be on December, 9, a new partnership can be started. (Actually it's started allready slowly at BRU where you
219 BMI727 : Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Then US probably wouldn't do it at all. There are probably more profitable things that they can do with their A330s. Th
220 Mayor : Yeah, hauling around those corsets and trusses is hard to do, isn't it?
221 DeltaL1011man : Ill put my sister up against her, 5 bags 70+lbs each for a 2 day trip. (first time i ever saw someone blow DLs NRSA bag rules out of the water.)
222 LAXtoATL : WTH? Please tell me you are exaggerating.
223 Flyibaby : Wasn't LHR just ranked as the worst airport in the world last week? I know JFK has its share of nightmares from time to time, but there have been ple
224 Cubsrule : I can find a survey that says anything... Compare average delays at the two, and compare Terminal 5 at LHR to DL's dump at JFK.
225 Pellegrine : You know it's very hard Mayor with this lifestyle. I think my suitcases (the hard sided Louis Vuitton ones) weigh 20 pounds empty. My record for a tr
226 Transpac787 : That would be your own fault. That would also be your own fault. Then what are you complaining about?
227 Pellegrine : I was never complaining. I am just talking about how I travel...this may be different from you. Just explaining to our friend Mayor. And also I am sa
228 Flyibaby : I never said that DL is a jewel by any means,but it isn't a dump. A little dated yes, but adequate enough to get the job done. The terminals have nev
229 DeltaL1011man : Nope, welcome to my life (and you talk about fun? Think moving all that crap around ATL)
230 Cubsrule : No, but with a comparable schedule and another connecting option, wouldn't you choose to avoid JFK?
231 Mayor : I'm just a non-rev, but I've always tried to avoid JFK, if possible.
232 Flyibaby : I'm a gold medallion - and speaking from all my experience (3 seperate times) in LHR - I now try to avoid that airport like the plague. I have never
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