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Air Comet Going Belly Up?  
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 797 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

G'day

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=42253345&opt=0

Reading that article made me think on how much life is left in Air Comet and for that matter in Gruppo Marsans, the owner of Air Comet.

What if anything is has materialized of the order Marsans placed with Airbus for 60+ planes just about a year ago?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ircraft-including-a350s-a380s.html

Checking the web did not reveal any recent info, so I wonder if more info s available on this forum.


Cheers

Peter


"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 8796 times:
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Even if Air Comet is in arrears with Brazilian authorities, I'm not sure that implies imminent liquidation of the company...  confused 

User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8567 times:

I understand that their have been consistent customer claims of extremely poor service on Air Comet. I have also heard that with only 9 active aircraft in its fleet, they had problems maintaining a robust schedule, and that there were frequent delays and cancelations.

Its known that they had missed payroll back in April, and that their route structure has shrunk: they no longer fly to continenetal Europe from MAD, and have most recently discontinued SCL and SJO.


User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8235 times:

They are in a difficult sitiation, but they are fighting very hard to keep going.

They are paying the payrolls and having so loans from banks, and usually if a bank is not sure about the airline they don´t give the money, we all know how they work.

I think they have a very hard time but now they are taking off again, I hope they will continue in the business.

Two weeks ago IB wanted to but the new A332 they have, but they said no, so I think they want to continue at any cost.

Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
their route structure has shrunk

Yes, they closed some unprofitable routes, this is to solve the situation, so if they can they will open the routes again.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Even if Air Comet is in arrears with Brazilian authorities, I'm not sure that implies imminent liquidation of the company...   

They have some problems with them, but I think this have been solved already or an agreement has been done. I´m not sure.


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7970 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
I understand that their have been consistent customer claims of extremely poor service on Air Comet. I have also heard that with only 9 active aircraft in its fleet, they had problems maintaining a robust schedule, and that there were frequent delays and cancelations.

Reminds me of Air Madrid.  Wink



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineAswissinmad From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6594 times:



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
They are paying the payrolls

My flatmate being a F/A with Air Comet, I can only dispute this claim .... she has not been paid her basic salary since March, and only gets her expenses paid (layovers etc), which amounts to about 40% total monthly salary. But most keep on working as they fear not showing up for work will have their contract terminated and thus it will be very difficult to claim any unemployment benefits.


User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

Hi all

Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
They are in a difficult sitiation, but they are fighting very hard to keep going.

They are paying the payrolls and having so loans from banks, and usually if a bank is not sure about the airline they don´t give the money, we all know how they work.

I think they have a very hard time but now they are taking off again, I hope they will continue in the business.

Two weeks ago IB wanted to but the new A332 they have, but they said no, so I think they want to continue at any cost.

Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
their route structure has shrunk

Yes, they closed some unprofitable routes, this is to solve the situation, so if they can they will open the routes again.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Even if Air Comet is in arrears with Brazilian authorities, I'm not sure that implies imminent liquidation of the company...

They have some problems with them, but I think this have been solved already or an agreement has been done. I´m not sure.

The way I see it they'll be lucky if they make it to Christmas.



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineKelual From Spain, joined Jul 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

MIgAiR54 I admire your positive way of thinking, But the Company is struggling... The owner is the president of the CEO which is the president of the confederation of CEOs in Spain that's why he gets some loans from certain banks, but in the state that the Company is right now, they need more than that.
People see a second Air Madrid... That is very difficult to get over.
They will end up selling everything to Iberia...Time will tell (if they haven't done it already)


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6249 times:
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According with a specialized Spanish aviation magazine, Air Comet is operating only a fleet of Airbus A330-200's.

The Airbus A320's used to fly from MAD to Europe and the A340's used to fly long-haul routes as SCL have been returned to lessors.

I don't know which will be the fate of this airline but I presume to see out of business after Xmas as they have many debts with creditors, banks, lessors and others.

Very sad to see one the last Spanish airlines capable to compete with Iberia on long-haul markets. Actually, this cake is in IB, A7 and UX hands...

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineDHR From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

They have two A332 white tails at Airbus and apparently another two becoming white tails next year. It doesn't look good for them.

User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6001 times:

Hi RAFVC10

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 8):
Very sad to see one the last Spanish airlines capable to compete with Iberia on long-haul markets. Actually, this cake is in IB, A7 and UX hands...

sorry to disagree with you but the actual point is that A7 were no where near beaing abel to compete with IB and in the long run not even with UX.


fernando  Wink



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5692 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
I have also heard that with only 9 active aircraft in its fleet

That's 4 active A330-200.

Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
they had problems maintaining a robust schedule, and that there were frequent delays and cancelations.

That's because they say they are flying such frequencies but they end up cancelling most of them. They say they come here (EZE) daily, but every week they cancel 4 flights, and it's always the same days. So they are ending up flying 3x weekly.

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 8):
The Airbus A320's used to fly from MAD to Europe and the A340's used to fly long-haul routes as SCL have been returned to lessors.

That is correct, an A320 was "held" at ORY due to unpaid leases. As soon as they got that "fixed", the aircraft was returned to the lessor. A7s A340-311 was returned to lessor and then sent to another customer.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 4):
Reminds me of Air Madrid.

Not quite. A7 is going down much more "silent" and not causing any operating mess. They are going down because of their own weight, while in the Air Madrid case the media just accelerated that fall by pressuring "Ministerio de Fomento" to remove them from their AOC.

Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
They are paying the payrolls and having so loans from banks, and usually if a bank is not sure about the airline they don´t give the money, we all know how they work.

Nope, they still haven't got that bridge loan yet - and with the AR deal gone bust, they can soon be closing doors.

Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
Two weeks ago IB wanted to but the new A332 they have, but they said no, so I think they want to continue at any cost.

IB wanted 2 of the 4 parked in TLS, that were supposed to go to AR - and wanted to pay them by cancelling their debts A7 has within its own staff. A7 needs cash, period.

Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
Yes, they closed some unprofitable routes, this is to solve the situation, so if they can they will open the routes again.

Now THAT's wishful thinking. They DID close unprofitable routes, but in the case of SCL it was because they didn't have any feeder traffic coming in - due to the cease of operations of Air Comet Chile - another AR ca$h burner.

Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 3):
They have some problems with them, but I think this have been solved already or an agreement has been done. I´m not sure.

Nope, still showing as MAD-LIM-EZE. This sounds like Air Madrid, though.

All in all, looks like when the cash flow was closed from Buenos Aires, everything started to tumble. What say you, Diaz Ferrán?

Saludos,



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5146 times:



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 11):
Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
they had problems maintaining a robust schedule, and that there were frequent delays and cancelations.

That's because they say they are flying such frequencies but they end up cancelling most of them. They say they come here (EZE) daily, but every week they cancel 4 flights, and it's always the same days. So they are ending up flying 3x weekly.

I just looked at their website and they currently serve BOG, GYE, UIO, LIM, HAV and EZE. Apparently Air Comet flies only 3 x per week to EZE instead of 7. Are these nonstop flights or do they refuel somewhere along the way? I assume BOG, GYE, UIO and HAV are flown nonstop from MAD (?).

According to this thread they now only have 4 A332's with 4 white tails in France (TLS), is this still correct?

A388


User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4994 times:

Hi A388

Hope your flying before Xmas because I don't see them flying for very long.


 Yeah sure



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
Are these nonstop flights or do they refuel somewhere along the way?

Due to non-payment of taxes to overfly the Brazilian air space, Air Comet is flying the MAD-EZE route with a non-announced stop at LIM.

To add to the post started by Heavierthanair, pilots of Air Comet will start intermittent strike from December 1 to December 4 to claim the salary of past months. If the airline will not pay, strike will be permanent from December 4.

Tragic and sad situation for the Spanish airline.

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4662 times:



Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 14):
Tragic and sad situation for the Spanish airline.

Tragic and sad situation for which only the owners of Grupo Marsans--Gonzalo Pascual and Gerardo Díaz-Ferrán, sometimes referred to as "G&G"--are to blame. Trying to flog dozens of brand-new Airbus to AR so as to inject some $$$$ into the Spanish airline (which has never semmed able to stand on its own two feet) was the only plan for survival up G&G's sleeves, and AR finally woke-up to this last year and by way of the Arg gov't which stepped in to expropriate, pulled the plug on Marsans. For all the denial that there was at the time in Spain about this and that it was yet another case of AR scapegoating the Spaniards for its shortcomings, the fact that Air Comet has had liquidity problems would seem to corroborate the initial claims.

It's sad that with Christmas approaching there is such a high likelihood that hundreds of employees will soon be out of work (+passengers stranded). But if airline executives like G&G insist on being so corrupt, so arrogant and so stupid, I don't know what else can be expected. In the '90s they sank another airline, Oasis, and in 2008 Air Comet Chile also folded. AR didn't fold, but one look at their maintenance ramp in EZE is enough to show how close they came to that point (and it is certain that without the Arg gov't, they would have). More than 20 aircraft sitting there in various states of cannibalisation, all of which were meant to enter scheduled C-Checks but never did so due to lack of spares. Similar story with AU, which at times had 50% of its MD fleet grounded.

I'm not optimistic that G&G are planning to do things "by the book", and especially when we consider that Air Comet's employees have not been paid for months, it would almost be better for the Spanish carrier to close asap and G&G banished from the aviation sector forever. In some countries the two of them plus the former third memeber of that trio, Antonio Mata, would be in jail.

Also, UX does a similar job to Air Comet as far as Latin America is concerned and has an extensive domestic network in Spain and regional network in Europe--not to mention being associate member of SkyTeam--to go with it. They also offer pretty reasonable fares even to EZE for most of the year. Air Comet is obviously cheaper but just like with Air Madrid in its final months: that is solely out of desperation. UX and IB are perfectly good, serious airlines to take care of the Spain-Latin America market.

Moral of the story: lo barato sale caro.

/ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineTravelExec From Spain, joined Dec 2007, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4601 times:



Quoting LVZXV (Reply 15):
airline executives like G&G insist on being so corrupt



Quoting LVZXV (Reply 15):
In some countries the two of them plus the former third memeber of that trio, Antonio Mata, would be in jail.

Those are some pretty weighty statements... i don't know the history of these guys, but would be interested to know what makes you say the above...


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

What's the latest on Air Comet's status in Spain? I read the airline has been bought?

A388


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4201 times:



Quoting DHR (Reply 9):
They have two A332 white tails at Airbus and apparently another two becoming white tails next year. It doesn't look good for them.

There are strong rumours that Norwegian will take up two of these aircrafts


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4187 times:



Quoting Planenutz (Reply 2):
I understand that their have been consistent customer claims of extremely poor service on Air Comet. I have also heard that with only 9 active aircraft in its fleet, they had problems maintaining a robust schedule, and that there were frequent delays and cancelations.

Cannot agree. I flew with them Madrid - Lima and back last christmas. Their service was medicocre, similar to British Airways, far better than Delta or American or Continental. Indeed into Lima only KLM I experienced a better service.

So I wish them all the best. Giving up flights between Heathrow and Madrid with so much competition was a smart move, they can get seats from Vueling or Spanair or whomever...


User currently onlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3949 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 19):
So I wish them all the best. Giving up flights between Heathrow and Madrid with so much competition was a smart move, they can get seats from Vueling or Spanair or whomever...

I take it you are refering to Air Comet's former Gatwick-MAD service? Air Europa did start LGW-MAD shortly after Air Comet ended their service, but I'm not sure if the two have an interline agreement in place. You can't book LGW-MAD-South America on the Air Comet website



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3886 times:



Quoting Kelual (Reply 7):
People see a second Air Madrid... That is very difficult to get over.

Totally agree.
Did Air Madrid used to pay their fly-over fees unlike Air Comet?
IMHO, between MAD and some Latinamerican destinations there's room for 2 Spanish airlines flying the routes, as why Air Madrid and now Air Comet (likely) have been failures, looks like the answer is in those airlines management.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3148 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 20):
I take it you are refering to Air Comet's former Gatwick-MAD service? Air Europa did start LGW-MAD shortly after Air Comet ended their service, but I'm not sure if the two have an interline agreement in place. You can't book LGW-MAD-South America on the Air Comet website

They did have. But UX cancelled that agreement when A7 violated their part by lowering their fares to a very unsustainable level, 580 EUR tax + Q incl, round trip. (EZE-MAD-EZE)

From there on, A7 does not have anymore UX codeshare, because that really pissed UX off.

Saludos,

[Edited 2009-11-23 13:47:40]


There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3496 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
What's the latest on Air Comet's status in Spain? I read the airline has been bought?

Iberia tried, just a month ago, to buy the whole fleet of Airbus A330's but the offer was refused. Reasons? Don't know...

Quoting Humberside (Reply 20):
I take it you are refering to Air Comet's former Gatwick-MAD service? Air Europa did start LGW-MAD shortly after Air Comet ended their service, but I'm not sure if the two have an interline agreement in place. You can't book LGW-MAD-South America on the Air Comet website

Due the announcement of repossession of Airbus A320 fleet by the lessors, the European flights were suspended and A7 reached a short agreement with Air Europa to fly these routes with UX metal. But the agreement were shortly finished due a bad competence in prices, as our colleague MD11Junkie said...

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

It's not just the fly-over fees to Brazil. They haven't payed their employees in months, and it seems they also owe money to IB maintenance. The airline desperately needs cash immediately, but who will lend it to them given they don't really offer much hope of recovery in the future?

IB can't wait for them to go under and get their hands on those A330s...

IB Failed Attempt To Buy Air Comet A330's (by R2rho Oct 22 2009 in Civil Aviation)

For the sake of competition on LatAm routes, would be nice if UX got some of those as well.

In any case, I wouldn't be booking any flights on them for 2010...


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