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AC Jazz YUL-YOW-YFB Starting March 28!  
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2683 posts, RR: 11
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...1096773&view=13213-0&Start=0&htm=0

Good news for YFB. 7F and 5T will now have competition on YFB-YOW.

Thenoflyzone


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

AC (including Jazz) will finally serve all Canadian provinces and territories for the first time. Canadian Airlines was the last carrier to do that after their various mergers.

[Edited 2009-11-09 13:23:31]

User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2683 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
AC (including Jazz) will finally serve all Canadian provinces and territories for the first time. Canadian Airlines was the last carrier to do that after their various mergers.

Right.

YOW-YFB is 2,100km's. the CRJ705 that Jazz operates has a range of 3,600km's, which is well within limits to operate the route. If the route does well, which it should, they could possibly even upgrade to E190, in order to carry cargo as well, which in the North is a big player i hear.

7F runs its cargo B762 daily on YFB-YOW. Not to mention Combi B732s and full cargo B727s.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2009-11-09 13:35:11 by thenoflyzone]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

This is very good. I have, for whatever reason, wanted to go to Iqaluit for quite some time now. With AC flying there, nonrevving will finally be an option for me!

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is there to do in that part of the country?

User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4023 times:



Quoting RP TPA (Reply 4):

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is there to do in that part of the country?

Well, I can't speak for others, but for me, I love hiking, the outdoors, and photography (amongst other things). So this destination would fit these activites quite well, especially in the summer. One can also take a flight to Greenland from there - although that's somewhat pricey.


User currently offlineHawaiian763 From Canada, joined May 2009, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3991 times:

Well it will be good for those living in the north, much easier when flying somewhere warmer with easier connections. Could the extreme cold in the north cause mechanical problems for AC Jazz?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3979 times:



Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 5):
One can also take a flight to Greenland from there - although that's somewhat pricey.

Only charters currently. Unprofitable scheduled service ended a few years ago but there is periodic discussion of resurrecting it, to avoid the approximate 7,000 mile detour via CPH, vs. about 500 miles nonstop.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3932 times:



Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 6):
Could the extreme cold in the north cause mechanical problems for AC Jazz?

No more than for 7F or 5T - and AC Jazz is only going to YFB, not to Pond or Resolute.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3886 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 8):
Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 6):
Could the extreme cold in the north cause mechanical problems for AC Jazz?

No more than for 7F or 5T - and AC Jazz is only going to YFB, not to Pond or Resolute.

However AC Jazz had to cancel quite a few of their Yellowknife (YZF) flights In January and February 2008 when temperatures dropped below -40C (same in F) for several days, and barely even made it above -40 during the day. Minimum certified operating temperatiure for the CRJ is apparently -40C. First Air and Canadian North maintained normal operations with their elderly 732s which I believe have no low temperature limits and often operate at ground temperatures below -40.

YFB usually doesn't get quite as cold as YZF, often around -25 to -30C in Jan/Feb/Mar, although their lowest recorded temperature is -45.6C. YZF's lowest recorded temperature is -51.2C.

Related news items re the YZF Jazz CRJ problems in 2008.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2008/01/29/cold-jazz.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2008/02/04/jazz-planes.html.


User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3395 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3863 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
However AC Jazz had to cancel quite a few of their Yellowknife (YZF) flights In January and February 2008 when temperatures dropped below -40C (same in F) for several days, and barely even made it above -40 during the day.

They've had the same problems in YXY a couple times. When it hits -40 and below (which it usually does at least a couple days per year) Jazz and their CRJs have to pack up and go away until it warms up again, while the competition's 737s simply carry on as per normal. I'm certain that the 737 has its limits as well, but by the time it gets too cold to run a '37 the staff and passengers probably would have all f***ed off home to warm up by then anyway...

Should be interesting to see how YFB does for them, but hopefully it won't cause too much harm to the other northern carriers providing the much more essential freight runs and service to the communities...



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3850 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Minimum certified operating temperatiure for the CRJ is apparently -40C.

Didn't know that - I stand corrected.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
YFB usually doesn't get quite as cold as YZF

 checkmark 
So I guess AC Jazz is playing the averages. But I really don't understand their business case - 7F and 5T make their money off cargo. And how are they going to compete with 7F and 5T's full meal service and Irish coffee to order?

Somewhere, I have photos of the A380 in YFB for cold weather testing. On the apron, the wingtip cleared the yellow submarine (terminal building) by about 97.55 centimetres.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3826 times:



Quoting RP TPA (Reply 4):
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is there to do in that part of the country?

No Starbucks. But there is lots of Inuit culture, arts. Plus the landscape/geography.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2683 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3812 times:



Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):
But I really don't understand their business case - 7F and 5T make their money off cargo

I was wondering the same thing. They are maybe taking a "clientele first, cargo later" approach to it. Like i was saying earlier, they might eventually want to upgrade to E190 to carry some cargo. Who knows, maybe even an A320.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Why aren't AC doing it from their YUL hub (or even YYZ hub) non stop? In fact, I don't think anyone does YUL-YFB non stop. I think 7F does YUL-YFB as a one stop through Fort Chimo, no? When I lived in Montreal, I remember Nordair doing it non stop in the 80s, but I can't remember anyone else doing it non stop. Seems like they would avoid 7F and 5T competition if they did that. What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3609 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Minimum certified operating temperatiure for the CRJ is apparently -40C.

- Just out of curiosity, what is that temperature in Fahrenheit? I tried two programs to translate and both programs said that -40C is also -70F.  confused  (I wish we were on the metric system in the U.S.)

- I would love to go up there some time in the summer and do some camping and fishing.

David



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineThule From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Interesting news, though it's always hard for a "normal" airline to break into the specialized Arctic market. We'll see if the competition lowers the normally ridiculous airfares to YFB, and if so, how low they can go before running up against the huge costs.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 5):
One can also take a flight to Greenland from there - although that's somewhat pricey.

Only charters currently. Unprofitable scheduled service ended a few years ago but there is periodic discussion of resurrecting it, to avoid the approximate 7,000 mile detour via CPH, vs. about 500 miles nonstop.

There hasn't been a direct flight since 2001 on 7F, though GL and 7F are in talks again to restart it, either to SFJ or GOH (Nuuk, Greenland's capital), likely on a Dash 7 or Dash 8:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2009/04/20/greenland-air.html

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 12):
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is there to do in that part of the country?

No Starbucks. But there is lots of Inuit culture, arts. Plus the landscape/geography.

Exactly. Adventure tourists and of course minerals/oil execs are willing to pay a premium for access to the Arctic. Another very important factor is the huge dependency Nunavut has on links with its southern neighbors (or, should I say, neighbours) for cargo, education, government, services, you name it.

A question for the Canadians: Will it be possible for AC to book tickets through/check baggage through to the smaller local flights on 7F and 5T?


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3562 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

Yield. YFB has traffic going to the nation's capital through natural ties. YUL doesn't.


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3537 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
Why aren't AC doing it from their YUL hub (or even YYZ hub) non stop? In fact, I don't think anyone does YUL-YFB non stop. I think 7F does YUL-YFB as a one stop through Fort Chimo, no? When I lived in Montreal, I remember Nordair doing it non stop in the 80s, but I can't remember anyone else doing it non stop. Seems like they would avoid 7F and 5T competition if they did that. What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

Out of YFB I think the majority of traffic is government-driven, so YOW makes a more logical initial destination. I'm going YOW-YVR this Friday, and no doubt there'll be cnx pax from YFB on the flight.

One drawback for the CRJ705 is the lack of cargo space, so hopefully AC can upguage to an E-jet or, perhaps longer-term, an A319. At the pax fares being advertised, the load factor on the 705 should be good, but not sure about the yield.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3525 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

YOW has by far the largest Inuit community outside YFB. Plus significant intergovernmental business.

Quoting Thule (Reply 16):
Will it be possible for AC to book tickets through/check baggage through to the smaller local flights on 7F and 5T?

Last time I flew to YFB, you could book through AC to connect to 7F and 5T flights, and both 7F and 5T flights earned Aeroplan points - that may change with AC competing directly (although AC already competes into YZF).



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3489 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
Why aren't AC doing it from their YUL hub (or even YYZ hub) non stop? In fact, I don't think anyone does YUL-YFB non stop. I think 7F does YUL-YFB as a one stop through Fort Chimo, no? When I lived in Montreal, I remember Nordair doing it non stop in the 80s, but I can't remember anyone else doing it non stop. Seems like they would avoid 7F and 5T competition if they did that. What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

Well, obviously in this case, YOW is a much larger market. I think this is primarily due to the fact that, being a territory, Nunavut is a federal jurisdiction and therefore, the ties between Ottawa and Nunavut are quite strong due to the various institutional connections between them. Most importantly this has resulted in the various freight contracts to the remote eastern arctic outposts being based out of Ottawa, and consequently, other important connections have developed, like Ottawa being the primary provider of secondary and tertiary medical services to the eastern Arctic. With a strong transportation link as a consequence of cargo contracts, business ties become stronger. This is also reflected in the number of Inuit living in Ottawa, the largest community outside of Nunavut.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3371 times:



Quoting Jamincan (Reply 20):
I think this is primarily due to the fact that, being a territory, Nunavut is a federal jurisdiction and therefore, the ties between Ottawa and Nunavut are quite strong due to the various institutional connections between them.

My turn for a stupid American question: how major are the differences in ties with Ottawa for provinces and territories?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3368 times:



Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
What's the obsession with YFB service having to go to YOW, a much smaller market?

maybe for the Nunavut territorial government employees to have full AirCanada nonstop service to the capital instead of some tiny regional operator?

although any YYZ-YOW flight must be purely for connection purposes (hey it's only 2 hrs drive)


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2683 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 14):
I think 7F does YUL-YFB as a one stop through Fort Chimo, no?

Yes, YVP, Kuujjuaq, which I had no idea was also called Fort Chimo.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2009-11-10 09:00:05 by thenoflyzone]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3340 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):

My turn for a stupid American question: how major are the differences in ties with Ottawa for provinces and territories?

The nature of the relationship between Ottawa and the provinces and Ottawa and the territories is quite different. I wouldn't say one is more or less major though. The territories are federal jurisdiction, so the federal government is responsible for all aspects of governance for the territories. They have provided some level of self government for them; however, the status of the territories is not the same constitutionally as for the provinces. As such, the federal government is far more involved in all aspects of the territories. With regard to the provinces, the federal government is also highly involved, but only in those matters which it has the constitutional authority over, as well as with regard to intergovernmental issues (health care being a major one which has both federal and provincial involvement). Although it's powers are more restricted in the provinces, because they are much more populous, and therefore of greater economic significance, it would be silly to say that Ottawa has greater ties with the territories than with the provinces.

Incidentally, I believe Ottawa has direct flights to all but 2 provincial capitals - those being Regina and Victoria. It was not too long ago that it only had direct flights to 5 provinicial capitals though.


25 Arrow : The two scales meet at -40. So -40C is also -40F. I have no idea where the -70F conversion comes from.
26 RP TPA : Well, that eliminates any possibility of enticing passengers to visit from Seattle.
27 Sflaflight : LOL! Old habits are hard to break, I guess! When I went to school in Montreal in the mid-late 80s, almost all textbooks and teachers taught the Anglo
28 Fly2yyz : 2 hour drive?! Are you mad... how fast are you driving... point to point its about 4 hours give or take dependant on traffic. But YTO-YOW city pairs
29 Kaiarahi : Not so stupid at all - I'd be hard-pressed to describe the legal/constitutional differences between states and Puerto Rico, Guam and Western ("Americ
30 Kaiarahi : If you drive at about 275 km/h (172 mph).
31 Tiger119 : - Oops, I could not see what I was typing. I meant to to say both formulas/programs showed -40C was the same as -40F not -70F. I was tired, plus I am
32 Threepoint : Well there's the opposite opinion that states that the aboriginal-owned and federally subsidized northern carriers could use some healthy competition
33 Kaiarahi : Just exaggerating for effect - the YFB airport manager told me they measured the distance as "97cm". I'm still hunting for the photo.
34 Kaiarahi : And I still don't get how AC would trump 7F or 5T in the pax market - there's something about being served Irish coffee (fresh coffee, Baileys and wh
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