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Fedex + Other Integrators Looking At A330-300F  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10316 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...0-300f-from-cargo-integrators.html


Fedex , UPS and probably DHL are looking at A330-300F new build or P2F conversion.

Can the A330-300F be the replacement plane for DC10-10F with Fedex ?

Seems as the old A330-300 PAX has a bright future as freighter.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9967 times:



Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Fedex , UPS and probably DHL are looking at A330-300F new build or P2F conversion.

At this point, I'd imagine that all they will do is look since UPS and FedEx both have relatively young fleets.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1603 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

FedEx is retiring a lot of aircraft in 2010-2011.
All DC-10-30F, MD-10 and some MD-11.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9934 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 2):
FedEx is retiring a lot of aircraft in 2010-2011.
All DC-10-30F, MD-10 and some MD-11.

That stinks. Sounds like a trip to MEM is in order.........



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13260 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9928 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
At this point, I'd imagine that all they will do is look since UPS and FedEx both have relatively young fleets.

With Boeing looking at 772BCF and 77EBCF conversions... I think Airbus has to be more serious and look into an A333F kit. If Airbus wants to keep the A330 line open past the A350 introduction, they must expand their freighter offerings. Since UPS and FedEx could easily order 100 between them...

Not to mention this would make any A333 operators happy as having UPS or FedEx buying up used airframes would help resale value.

I'm not sure 'jacking up' the nose is an idea the integrators will like. That would mean pricey GSE at every airport.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineWrenchon727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9892 times:

Fedex is looking at the A330-300F new build or PtoF the 767-300 PtoF, and 777-200 PtoF as a replacement for the MD10 Fleet. They have already retired 4 MD10-10, with intentions to park/store some more after December & 1 MD10-30 N301FE is being donated to Orbis.
Fedex has the last three DC10 which happen to be -30's in VCE being converted. They just received 2 converted TAM MD11's recently, so I don't think they will retire the MD10 fleet by 2011, and I don't see any MD11 leaving until possibly 2015 lease returns with Boeing for 777F

[Edited 2009-11-11 08:26:47 by wrenchon727]

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1387 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9749 times:



Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Can the A330-300F be the replacement plane for DC10-10F with Fedex ?

Yes, it's the obvious replacement - just as it was for passenger operations. A converted 772 may to be too much of an aircraft, and a similarly converted 763 too little. An early model -300P2F may not, however, have the legs to replace a DC10-30F. However, if some of the improvements the -300 has seen are retrofitable during the conversion, then it'll gain the range as well and will become a killer app. for anyone who doesn't need to lift 100+ tons for 11+ hours (i.e. the B777F). Keep in mind, integrators are usually volume restricted, not payload.

Should Airbus launch a P2F program based on the -300 there's going to be significant feed-stock, and as a previous poster alluded to, it'll work wonders for the resale price.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9689 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 2):
MD-10 and some MD-11

Where does it say this? The only thing I heard was all DC-10 are retiring, not MD-10/11s


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9610 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 2):
All DC-10-30F, MD-10 and some MD-11.



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 7):
The only thing I heard was all DC-10 are retiring,

I've heard nothing re: any MD-11s anytime soon. MD-10s well the -10s probably and as far as the DC-10s they've been gone since sep.


User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1603 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9533 times:

Sorry, MD-11 is and will be backbone of FedEx for a long time.
Actually, some DC-10-30 will be entering service in 2010 while other (older) DC-10-30 will be exiting service.
Interesting. DC-10 is a die hard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9384 times:



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 8):
I've heard nothing re: any MD-11s anytime soon. MD-10s well the -10s probably and as far as the DC-10s they've been gone since sep.

I was under the impression that the DC-10's were all gone and that only the MD-10's were left. However there is one MD-10 parked here in VCV that has had the name partially covered up and is beginning being torn down, N393FE.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Fedex , UPS and probably DHL are looking at A330-300F new build or P2F conversion.

At this point, I'd imagine that all they will do is look since UPS and FedEx both have relatively young fleets.

FedEx hardly has a young fleet. A few MD-11's along with the new 777's and that's it. The MD-10's are all at the minimum 20 plus years old. The 752's are fairly old builds and the 727's are even older. the A300's aren't too bad but overall the FedEx fleet is not young. UPS on the other hand, now that the DC-8's and 747 classics are gone, has a pretty young fleet, I know that some of the 752's are old but for the most part that is it.

FX1816


User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7309 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9171 times:
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FX will use this as leverage to get the best deal with Boeing and 767F order.


I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9136 times:



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 4):
I think Airbus has to be more serious and look into an A333F kit. If Airbus wants to keep the A330 line open past the A350 introduction, they must expand their freighter offerings.

Certainly, I didn't mean to imply that Airbus shouldn't offer them, just that FX and 5X may not be buying large numbers of planes soon, and if they do I think that it would be better for them to push for conversions.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 4):
I'm not sure 'jacking up' the nose is an idea the integrators will like.

I think that they would be better off modifying the nose to have the fairing, but I really don't know. But a one time expense when the plane is already being converted anyway is still probably cheaper than getting either an all new plane or special equipment. For that matter, they could probably even still use the original landing gear, just mounted differently on the fairing.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):
and a similarly converted 763 too little.

The 767 has the advantage of being cheaper to acquire than the A330, and probably will for some time to come.

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 8):
I've heard nothing re: any MD-11s anytime soon.

If I had to guess, I would say that as the 777s come online the MD-11s will trickle down to domestic routes.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9114 times:

AFAIK Airbus is already studying the possibility of an A333F, and most certainly surveying customers about it. If you ask me, it's a matter of when, not if. A P2F program is pretty much a given, but IMO a new build A333F is certainly worth doing for Airbus. With the accumulated experience from the A332F, it could be developed and certified at a minimal cost. A combined A332F+A333F offering could keep the line running for many years still (just look at the A300F).

User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7309 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9060 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
If I had to guess, I would say that as the 777s come online the MD-11s will trickle down to domestic routes.

The MD11 will very much be a part of the AGFS international system at FX for years to come.



I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8997 times:
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In terms of cargo volume and payload weight, the A330-200F matches up very well to the DC-10-30F and MD-10-30F and offers a nice increase over the DC-10-10F/MD-10-10F in terms of payload weight.

Just a few weeks ago FedEx chief executive David Bronczek called the 777 "a perfect plane for us as a production freighter and as a converted freighter" and says the carrier is looking at making a decision on the 777 BCF "sometime next year".

Based on Boeing's projections, a 777-200BCF will handily lift more than a DC-10-10F/MD-10-10F and the 777-200ERBCF will do so compared to a DC-10-30F or MD-10-30F and FX is looking at both options. You'd also see a nice boost in available volume.

Airbus Freighter Conversion vice-president of marketing and sales Michael Fuers has said that the A330-300P2F will be launched soon. Comparing Airbus' numbers for an A330-300P2F and Boeing's for the 777BCF, the A330-300P2F will fall about 10t short of the 772BCF/A332F and 20t short of the 77EBCF. It would work as a solid replacement for the DC-10-10F/MD-10-10F and the A300-600F and A310F fleets, but for the DC-10-30F and MD-10-30F it may fall short.

As Boeing only built around 100 777-200s, I could easily see FX going for a mix of A330-300P2Fs, 777-200BCFs and A330-200Fs to replace the A300F, A310F and smaller DC-10/MD-10 fleets and the 777-200ERBCF and 777F replacing the larger DC-10/MD-10 and MD-11 fleets.

[Edited 2009-11-11 13:32:37]

User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2997 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

I think they'll stick to the 777's. Why go Airbus, when they already have some 777's? They are probably just getting some leverage...


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3417 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8932 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I could easily see FX going for a mix of A330-300P2Fs, 777-200BCFs and A330-200Fs to replace the A300F, A310F and smaller DC-10/MD-10 fleets and the 777-200ERBCF and 777F replacing the larger DC-10/MD-10 and MD-11 fleets.

I think alot of this will hinge on the resale value. If as some here suggest that the 777-200 is a dog on the used market and leases for little, It will do well at FX. If the A330-200 doesn't have a matching low resale value it won't be bought and will see more airline service instead.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10110 posts, RR: 97
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8823 times:
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Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
I think alot of this will hinge on the resale value. If as some here suggest that the 777-200 is a dog on the used market and leases for little, It will do well at FX. If the A330-200 doesn't have a matching low resale value it won't be bought and will see more airline service instead.

Bear in mind the plane under discussion is the A330-300......
It's more likely there will be more older frames available than of the A330-200..

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Comparing Airbus' numbers for an A330-300P2F and Boeing's for the 777BCF, the A330-300P2F will fall about 10t short of the 772BCF/A332F and 20t short of the 77EBCF.

Although the point of an A330-300 freighter is more likely to be volume driven rather than payload driven, from the comments I've seen....

Rgds


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8779 times:
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Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 17):
I think alot of this will hinge on the resale value. If as some here suggest that the 777-200 is a dog on the used market and leases for little, It will do well at FX. If the A330-200 doesn't have a matching low resale value it won't be bought and will see more airline service instead.

Currently, the early model LGW A330-300s (the ones most likely for conversion) are on average cheaper than a 777-200, but both are seeing continual value erosion at about the same rate. Leasing costs are about a wash.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8625 times:



Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
FX will use this as leverage to get the best deal with Boeing and 767F order.

Winner winner chicken dinner.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31119 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8572 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 18):
Although the point of an A330-300 freighter is more likely to be volume driven rather than payload driven, from the comments I've seen....

Agreed.  yes 

Airbus is marketing it as a replacement for A300F, A310F, DC-8F and DC-10-10F/MD-10-10F fleets as it offers more volume than all of them and more payload weight than most of them.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8463 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
If I had to guess, I would say that as the 777s come online the MD-11s will trickle down to domestic routes

Well the 777s will be the ultra long haul routes which will be new ones and possibly modified old ones but I don't see them taking away the -11s routes for a while.


User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1300 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8255 times:



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):


Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
FX will use this as leverage to get the best deal with Boeing and 767F order.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

B'GOK!

But seriously, I have a feeling this is the plan.

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlineA380Heavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8210 times:

WIll Airbus be able to retro-fit passenger A333's with the nose appendage required to make the fuselage level whilst on the ground a la A332F?

If so, would it have to be certified as a new type seeing as the only major difference (excluding cargo door + strengthening) would be the nose modification and the re-positioning of the nose wheel?



Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
25 Stitch : They could, but have noted the cost to develop a modification is not worth it. They did it for the A330-200F because it is a new-build model. "Nose-j
26 Lightsaber : Where do you find your leasing data? I'd love to have any available links. The MD-10's are around for a bit longer. I thought a few select individual
27 DUALRATED : This is news It could but I think its just window shopping
28 Spacepope : Bbbbbut but but LD2's!!! Someone had to say it, might as well be tongue in cheek.
29 MCOflyer : No disrespect to any members but I believe FXramper anytime as he is spot on 99% of the time. KH
30 413x3 : A ramper is the last person to know anything
31 Post contains links Stitch : FlightGlobal recently ran an article on the state of the P2F conversion market. As expected, said conversions are not in demand at the moment. Boeing
32 FX1816 : 763's can carry LD3's, not two across like the other aircraft but they can and I believe that if they have the larger belly doors they can accomodate
33 CosmicCruiser : Nah, the pilots are the last to know.
34 Braniff747SP : He is not a ramper... hes a manager.
35 Lightsaber : I would think so too, but like you, I do not know and can only speculate. 100% agree. I also think they should 'shop around' as the discounts in the
36 Kaitak : But wouldn't Boeing like them to be a launch customer for the 787F instead (I'm assuming there'll be one at some stage?) Maybe they could co-operate
37 JerseyFlyer : Airbus will offer the A333P2F conversion as cheaply as possible without modifying the nose. But if a customer wanted tp pay for the modification I gu
38 Stitch : But if that doesn't happen until the 2020's or 2030's, that's a long time for FX to wait. Regardless of weight, you want a flat load surface so your
39 413X3 : A ramp manager?
40 FXramper : I've seen information to this or I wouldn't have reported it. The MD11 isn't going anywhere. It's already heavily used in the domestic system for FX
41 CosmicCruiser : People here always jump on these rumors and begin to speculate what planes are retiring and what planes are going to serve here or there when anyone
42 Worldrider : fedex and the 330F: just keike nie koepe.
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