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Last Two 744s (LoadAir) Being Sold Today?  
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 7
Posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

I notice that FlightAware has the last two 744Fs (the ones that were ordered by LoadAir) scheduled to fly up to Abbotsford today. In the past this was usually done for the sale of an aircraft on Canadian soil for tax reasons. So does anyone have any details? Will these two birds finally leave their nest for good?

Edit:

The two aircraft appear to have been re-registered as N797BA and N798BA, and the FAA database says the registrations' owner is Wells Fargo.

The temporary registrations that they had been wearing while they were owned by BCA were N452BA and N552BA.
The aircraft previously used call signs BOE571 and BOE572. Abbotsford flights were filed as N797BA and N798BA.
The LoadAir registrations were to have been 9K-DAA and 9K-DAB.

[Edited 2009-11-11 09:43:12]


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

As of 10:00 AM local time, both aircraft have landed at Abbotsford , and a return flight plans to PAE have been filed for both, presumably soon after whatever legal transaction is supposed to happen there.

If this trip to Canada is really associated with the delivery / sale of these two aircraft, then Boeing have reached a milestone of sorts, with all the 747-400 series completing delivery. Total 694 units methinks.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

how can they get away with this? Selling the aircraft somewhere else just to escape some taxes? I think that is ridiculous

User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7214 times:
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Quoting 413X3 (Reply 2):
how can they get away with this? Selling the aircraft somewhere else just to escape some taxes? I think that is ridiculous

Happens all the time and not just in this country.
Same with aircraft registrations. Many aircraft are registered in the Caribbean.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

Looks like the aircraft are headed to Marana (KMZJ) for storage, but maybe they are now not owned by BCA.

I have not seen one of these Abbotsford trips show up for quite a long time. In the past, I was told that sometimes an airline would take delivery of an airframe and then immediately fly it to Canada to sell it to a lessor and lease-back from them. I was told this was due to "tax reasons" but it may have had to do with some other legalities which happened to be easier to transact in Canada. I just don't know.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineEvomutant From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7103 times:

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 3):
Happens all the time and not just in this country.
Same with aircraft registrations. Many aircraft are registered in the Caribbean.

That's right. Same with shipping. A large proportion of the Earth's merchant fleet is registered in Liberia, for example.

Cheaper fees, laxer laws, less regulation.

Edit, grammar.

[Edited 2009-11-11 11:00:06 by evomutant]

User currently offlineLotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6844 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 2):
how can they get away with this? Selling the aircraft somewhere else just to escape some taxes? I think that is ridiculous

Many aircraft sale transactions are signed when the aircraft is mid-flight over international waters for the same reasons.

Someone from the airline ops department calls into the closing call to confirm the aircaft position just as the money is wired and the title transfers. A printout proving the aircraft location at that time goes into the file for later verification.


User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Why should a foreign airline have to suffer and be stuck with a U.S. sales tax when they have no jurisdiction.

User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5837 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 2):


how can they get away with this? Selling the aircraft somewhere else just to escape some taxes? I think that is ridiculous

Could be, or is the US tax system ridiculous? In the General Aviation world, most aircraft imported to Europe are imported through Denmark, as they charge 0% VAT. That however will be finished after January 1st 2010, as the Danish law will be changed.

It happens all the time and everywhere. Nothing special, nothing illegal.

Strange to see however that the first 747-400's already are being scrapped, and the last ones haven't been sold until now. Is that normal?



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineBmiBaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1795 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5599 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 8):
Strange to see however that the first 747-400's already are being scrapped, and the last ones haven't been sold until now. Is that normal?

Just look at the Airbus A320 & A318 - they're being scrapped yet still coming off the production line!


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5489 times:



Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 9):

Just look at the Airbus A320 & A318 - they're being scrapped yet still coming off the production line!

The A318 is a very special case, but I don't know about A320-200's being scrapped? A320-100's yes, but A320-200's being scrapped is news to me..



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9602 posts, RR: 69
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5296 times:
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Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 10):
A320-200's being scrapped is news to me..

I know F-GHQB and 5B-DAT were scrapped, I am sure there are others.


User currently offlineEVAAIRBR076 From Netherlands, joined May 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

And what about the rumours a few weeks ago, were was said that they would go to Thai Airways to start cargo operations. There was a topic about this, but i cant find it right now.

User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5284 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4854 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 10):
, but I don't know about A320-200's being scrapped? A320-100's yes, but A320-200's being scrapped is news to me..

At least five early NW A320-211s have been scrapped. They were approaching the hours limit and DL/NW did not feel it was worth the cost to do heavy maintenance.

I'm sure we will see additional scrapping of early A320-200s in the near future. Some of them have very, very high cycles.



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User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4772 times:



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 11):
I know F-GHQB and 5B-DAT were scrapped, I am sure there are others.

Several AF and NWA A320s have beeen scrapped, the latest being F-GGEC (ln.13), F-GFKF (29) and F-GFKO (129), although the last one might still exist.

Quoting EVAAIRBR076 (Reply 12):
And what about the rumours a few weeks ago, were was said that they would go to Thai Airways to start cargo operations.

Last I read is Thai might lease 777Fs from someone not needing them instead (no new orders).

According to http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3 both Loadair 744ERFs have been ferried to the desert to be stored.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

The Skyliner site says that the aircraft are owned by Boeing Capital. Do Boeing Capital use Wells Fargo as trustee?


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4158 times:



Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 7):
Why should a foreign airline have to suffer and be stuck with a U.S. sales tax when they have no jurisdiction.

Well they are buying an American product. Either pay American tax when you come here to buy it, or pay your countries tax. If I were to buy from another country I would pay my local sales tax. I just don't think its right. These companies throwing around millions complain about a few percentage points in tax? Tax is what keeps the nation progressing


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3935 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 16):

Well they are buying an American product. Either pay American tax when you come here to buy it, or pay your countries tax. If I were to buy from another country I would pay my local sales tax. I just don't think its right. These companies throwing around millions complain about a few percentage points in tax? Tax is what keeps the nation progressing

I doubt it's the company who is buying who does this, I bet it's better for Boeing too. And you are answering your own question. A few percentage points in tax on the 'millions they throw around', is a hell lot of money. And especially with current small margins, it's attractive to avoid them.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3912 times:



Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 17):
it's attractive to avoid them.

Plus it's not illegal. Much of corporate finance is how to avoid taxes. That is how companies make profits and provide jobs and investment (prosperity).

If a company did not try to make profits, the shareholders could actually sue the staff for breach of their fiduciary duty, and have them removed. If there is a way to avoid taxes, legally, it is the right decision for a corporation.


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