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8 Years Since AAL587  
User currently offlineCodyKDiamond From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 537 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

Good afternoon,
Tomorrow is the eighth anniversary of the crash of American 587. On November 12, 2001, A300B4-605R N14053 crashed shortly after departure from JFK, enroute JFK-SDQ. May we remember those 260 people who died aboard the Airbus and the 5 people on the ground who also died. My we never forget AA587.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

I was in Queens, NY when this happened. To me the oddest thing about it was always that once the authorities figured out that it wasn't a terrorist attack, everybody just kind of went "phew!" and then forgot about it. This was one of the largest airline crashes in US history, and in the biggest city in the country, but I never really felt like respects were paid well enough given its magnitude. Coming on the heels of 9/11, it just got overshadowed. Any other year, it would have been the biggest local story of the year.


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

This crash was always a mystery to me and on top of that I didnt find out about it until about 3 years after it as I was a young kid and never watched the news and no-one ever told me. In a way now AA probably feel a great sense of relief due to the fact that the A300 is finally out of the game in their fleet.

User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2958 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

It's incredible, it crashed because the tail came off because of the FO's use of the rudder. Everyone thought that i was a terrorist attack... I was 5-6 at the time, I remember watching it on tv.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineRcair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3306 times:
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Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 1):
me the oddest thing about it was always that once the authorities figured out that it wasn't a terrorist attack, everybody just kind of went "phew!" and then forgot about it.

9/11 was a game/life changing day for many - and this crash was close enough that people were simply not able to respond 'normally' to a crash (if a response to a crash can ever be considered normal). It was even worse due to the location.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 1):
ny other year, it would have been the biggest local story of the year.

I actually think it would have taken more than just any other year - probably a couple at least.

Witness the reaction to one of the presidential 747's flying over NYC for a photoshoot this year.



rcair1
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3065 times:



Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 2):
In a way now AA probably feel a great sense of relief due to the fact that the A300 is finally out of the game in their fleet.

Why would that be? As far as I know, AA kept flying the A300 for 8 more years, and they still fly the 757, even after AA965 crashed in Cali in 1995, and the MD 80, even after AA1420 crashed in Little Rock in 1996.



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User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4233 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 2920 times:



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 1):
I was in Queens, NY when this happened. To me the oddest thing about it was always that once the authorities figured out that it wasn't a terrorist attack, everybody just kind of went "phew!" and then forgot about it. This was one of the largest airline crashes in US history, and in the biggest city in the country, but I never really felt like respects were paid well enough given its magnitude. Coming on the heels of 9/11, it just got overshadowed. Any other year, it would have been the biggest local story of the year.

I couldn't agree more.
9/11 was, hopefully, a once in a lifetime event. Only those of old enough to remember Pearl Harbor (well before my time!) can recall an event of such magnitude. Unfortunately, accidents and tragedies like AA587 are much too frequent of an occurrence (TWA800, PA103, AF447, etc., the list goes on...)

AA587 was a horrific crash in its own right but timing is everything. Just as US aviation was getting back on its heels, this ill-timed crash occurred just a few miles from Ground Zero. Sort of ironic, actually. RIP to all the victims.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 5):
Why would that be? As far as I know, AA kept flying the A300 for 8 more years, and they still fly the 757, even after AA965 crashed in Cali in 1995, and the MD 80, even after AA1420 crashed in Little Rock in 1996.

Don't forget many years of flying the DC-10 after the ORD crash, still the worst crash on American soil.

What the original poster probably meant is that there is still a lot of bad blood between AA and Airbus over the cause of the crash of AA587. Much litigation is still pending.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 2879 times:



Quoting Richierich (Reply 6):
I couldn't agree more.
9/11 was, hopefully, a once in a lifetime event. Only those of old enough to remember Pearl Harbor (well before my time!) can recall an event of such magnitude. Unfortunately, accidents and tragedies like AA587 are much too frequent of an occurrence (TWA800, PA103, AF447, etc., the list goes on...)

AA587 was a horrific crash in its own right but timing is everything. Just as US aviation was getting back on its heels, this ill-timed crash occurred just a few miles from Ground Zero. Sort of ironic, actually. RIP to all the victims.

I would argue that when Kennedy was shot, it was just a big as both 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.


User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 2837 times:



Quoting UALWN (Reply 5):
Why would that be? As far as I know, AA kept flying the A300 for 8 more years, and they still fly the 757, even after AA965 crashed in Cali in 1995, and the MD 80, even after AA1420 crashed in Little Rock in 1996.

AA965 is irrelevant to that reply. That was due to flight crew error.

AA1420 is also irrelevant to that reply. That was due to weather.

AA587 was due to a pure mechanical malfunction of the A300's rudder design and AA's training program for flight crew.


User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 396 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

I remember this crash very well unfortunately, two months almost to the day after 9/11. I was out at my home on Long Island, was off from school presumably for Veteran's day, and was listening to the JFK Live ATC feed (fed from CUNY back then) when I first heard reports of an aircraft crashed to the south of the airport. Very eerie to hear that live. The news couldn't get anything right either, even they seemed like they were in a total panic about it being possibly terrorism related. Once terrorism was ruled out, they shut down JFK and started checking all of the fuel supply systems for bad/tampered fuel. News 4 NY kept saying it was a 767 that took off from 22R when it was in fact the A300 that took off from 31L. A crazy time for all of us. My mom had patients from the Belle Harbor area and they were already shaken up after losing nearly two dozen fire fighters in 9/11. I feel for everyone in NY and the all victims families on the ground and in the air for what happened that sad day.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4233 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 2765 times:



Quoting B752OS (Reply 7):
I would argue that when Kennedy was shot, it was just a big as both 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

Wasn't around for that event but clearly it was one of the defining moments of American history during the 20th Century. I picked on the Pearl Harbor attack because of the similar loss of life (compared to 9/11), a similar call to arms and war. The similarities may end there but one thing is sure - these were huge events that have shaken the lives of all that were of age to remember. The Sept. 11th attacks overshadowed AA587 in a similar way that everybody knows about Pearl Harbor, relatively few may know anything about the loss of the Lusitania, for example. (Yes, I know the Lusitania's sinking was not an accident.)

It sort of scares me a little to think that there are some younger a.netters on here who were too young to remember 9/11 or AA587... I know it was 8 years ago, but wow...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineAirJamaica From Jamaica, joined Aug 2006, 2509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 2730 times:



Quoting UALWN (Reply 5):
Why would that be? As far as I know, AA kept flying the A300 for 8 more years, and they still fly the 757, even after AA965 crashed in Cali in 1995, and the MD 80, even after AA1420 crashed in Little Rock in 1996.



Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 8):
AA965 is irrelevant to that reply. That was due to flight crew error.

AA1420 is also irrelevant to that reply. That was due to weather.

AA587 was due to a pure mechanical malfunction of the A300's rudder design and AA's training program for flight crew.

I think the point UALWN is making is that AA continued to operate various aircraft types for quite some time subsequent to having accidents with those fleet, based on his response to Aeroflot001's comment in post 2. As indicated by Richierich in post # 6, Aeroflot001 was probably specifically making reference to the controversy between AA/Airbus as to the actual cause of this accident. His comments are not irrelevant based on how Aeroflot's001 post is interpreted IMO.



greenheart
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 2550 times:



Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 8):
AA965 is irrelevant to that reply. That was due to flight crew error.

So was AA587 per the NTSB: "the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer’s unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. "



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User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 2540 times:



Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 8):
AA1420 is also irrelevant to that reply. That was due to weather.

The NTSB thinks otherwise: "the probable causes of this accident were the flight crew’s failure to discontinue the approach when severe thunderstorms and their associated hazards to flight operations had moved into the airport area and the crew’s failure to ensure that the spoilers had extended after touchdown." I'd call that pilot error, not weather.



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User currently offlineJFKMan From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

I live in the Rockaway - Belle Harbor area.

I will NEVER forget that day. The plane crashed one block away from my school, and thankfully we were off that day from school. I live about 5 blocks away from the crash site.

I remember looking out my back window and just seeing black smoke everywhere. It seemed so close that I thought a house blew up around the block.

My former teachers sister was one of those who died on the ground.

Very sad.



Hey! I'm Tommy (US AIRWAYS RULES)
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

All these years later, the crash of AA587 continues to be one of the most conterversial and debated here and elsewhere for it's cause. It also raised issues of racism, that a relaively 'old' aircraft involved was going to the Dominican Republic. Of course, one reason the A300 was used to allow more cargo/baggage capacity on DR bound flights, as many on those flights were going home and bringing in clothes, car parts, electronics to relatives there.

Of course, the first reaction upon learning of this crash was "Was it a terror act?" But it seemed to move away from that very quickly as we saw the debris and information from those that saw the crash came out.

There was a ceremony at the memorial today, one that was to include Mayor Bloomberg and other officials, victims' families and concerned persons.


User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2495 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
It also raised issues of racism, that a relaively 'old' aircraft involved was going to the Dominican Republic.

Would you accuse LH of "racism" too? They run their A300s many times a day between, say, FRA and HAM until earlier this year, that is, 2009, not 2001...



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User currently offlineJFKMan From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2492 times:



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
There was a ceremony at the memorial today, one that was to include Mayor Bloomberg and other officials, victims' families and concerned persons.

Thankfully they moved it to a memorial site. Every year hundreds of family members showed up at the crash site, which has now been rebuilt and families live in the houses. Thank God they moved it as it was annoying for the people living in the house. The families all have young children who wouldnt and shouldnt understand it yet.



Hey! I'm Tommy (US AIRWAYS RULES)
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

This was a god awful crash. RIP to all the victims. I remember NYC made a huge deal about it and initially thought it was a terrorist attack and therefore closed all the bridges and tunnels to the city for hours. AA disputed the crash with airbus for rudder defects but the bottom line was that AA kept the A300 until 2008-2009 because they were leased, and thus that is when the leases were up. It's too bad because the A300 really is a fantastic design and ride for a modern airplane.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 5):
AA965 crashed in Cali in 1995, and the MD 80, even after AA1420 crashed in Little Rock in 1996.

Yeah these AA crashes were investigated to be mostly pilot error and not based on mechanical defects. AA 965 was incredibly tragic as well and doesn't seem to get not nearly enough recognition.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
It also raised issues of racism, that a relaively 'old' aircraft involved was going to the Dominican Republic.

Huh? The A300 that crashed was only 13 years old. How does that classify as old and or racist?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 2300 times:



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 18):
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
It also raised issues of racism, that a relatively 'old' aircraft involved was going to the Dominican Republic.

Huh? The A300 that crashed was only 13 years old. How does that classify as old and or racist?

It was an issue played up in the media at the time, probably to support lawsuits brought by the victim's families, almost all of whom were in part of African heritage. As the aircraft came apart in early flight, that is the whole rudder assembly tearing off the aircraft, the lawyers and those not understanding aircraft structures, would find any blame they could, and not knowing that many flights may be on much older aircraft. I understand that 13 years old is not old for an aircraft, indeed like many of us I have been on aircraft much older than that, but try explaining that to someone who lost someone in an aircraft crash.


User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

I remember that day well. I was dropped of at SNA for an AA flight. It was really early as I was on one of the first flights of the day. Well being just a couple of months after 911 the airport did not really have the new security running smooth and I was in a line with a few hundred people.

Then as if magic almost everybodys phones started ringing at the same time. I mean everybodys. I did not have mine but it only took a few seconds for me to figure out that something really bad happened. Then minutes later it was word of an AA plane down NYC (that is what people were saying anyways. Then tens of Sherriff cars pulled up and all the cops were just standing around watching everybody. We boared and the Capitan said that this was a big time uncertainty for everybody and that as a group that we should all watch out for and help each other if needed. I was thinking that was a bit of a strange thing to say. Just before pushback the crew stood at the front of the plane in a small circle hugging each other. At this time everybody was thinking terrorism. It was a silent flight. It was at DFW when all became clear what happened.



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