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ALB:All DL/NW Mainline Gone By 1/5  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3084 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

I knew this was going to happen. And it does on Janurary 5th, the schedule to DTW goes to :

3x CR2 and 2x CR9

In March, the flight goes to all CR2s. I knew this was going to happen to ALB and I suppose it will be happening to a lot more stations soon. I pray that the CR9 flight to MSP goes to a DC9 next summer like it did this one.

Before the merger, NW flew 3x 320s and after the merger it went down to 3x DC9s and then DC9s mixed in with CRJs and now were down to one DC9.

Thanks NW for being committed to ALB all these years, and Delta, you know what I think.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

IMHO, DL is getting into the habbit of using RJs in the wrong markets. Doesn't it cost less to operate 3 M80s rather than six CRJs? It's twice the pilots, twice as much labor on the ground.

Many markets can definitely support a few mainline ops instead of being overloaded with CRJ capacity.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineCMHARJ From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 127 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5210 times:

At least you still have M/L employees working those flights. Who does the below wing work over there? DGS or RE? I thought ALB was a high yielding station with those gov't officals flying out. Flying out on a CRJ is just plain tourtore, especially on that MSP leg

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3084 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5163 times:

Quoting CMHARJ (Reply 2):
At least you still have M/L employees working those flights. Who does the below wing work over there? DGS or RE? I thought ALB was a high yielding station with those gov't officals flying out. Flying out on a CRJ is just plain tourtore, especially on that MSP leg



Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 1):
IMHO, DL is getting into the habbit of using RJs in the wrong markets. Doesn't it cost less to operate 3 M80s rather than six CRJs? It's twice the pilots, twice as much labor on the ground.

Many markets can definitely support a few mainline ops instead of being overloaded with CRJ capacity

Yup..yup. I dunno if you remember but ALB used to get 5x 738s from ATL!

NW used to fly 3x 320s. I am 6 foot 6 and I cant sit in a CRJ for too long.

This is how you lose your customers, DL.

[Edited 2009-11-11 18:22:44]


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7915 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5085 times:

Won't ALB be getting more service if this DCA/LGA deal goes through or will they be RJs too?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5085 times:



Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 1):
Many markets can definitely support a few mainline ops instead of being overloaded with CRJ capacity.

Having twice as many flights with an aircraft that seats half the passengers amounts to the same amount of seats, only with much better frequency. The only problem is that most knowledgeable travelers will do anything to avoid a flight on a CRJ-200.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

ALB is not alone.

PVD and GPT both lose M88 service eff. 1/5; however, the schedule shows them returning in February, but those may be dummy schedules.


User currently offlinePackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

So, when airlines do this, where will those mainline jets be used? Is there a station somewhere in the system upgrading from RJ's to DC9/MD88 in January?


Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlineSectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

My partner flew PVD-ATL today on the MD88. He said the plane was full. Good sign!

User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4995 times:



Quoting Packcheer (Reply 7):
So, when airlines do this, where will those mainline jets be used? Is there a station somewhere in the system upgrading from RJ's to DC9/MD88 in January?

I assume they get parked.



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineJasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Just because a flight is full does NOT mean it's making money. Most airlines are reporting record load factors in the 80+ percent range. that means the flights are full. if the average fare is not high enough to cover their costs, then the flight is losing money. there is a LOT of low fare competition in PVD and ALB that drives down average fares. so, if they are filling the planes with these low fares, and there isnt enough higher fares, then sorry - that flight, despite being full, isnt making money.

Quoting Sectflyer (Reply 8):
My partner flew PVD-ATL today on the MD88. He said the plane was full. Good sign!



User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4872 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
Yup..yup. I dunno if you remember but ALB used to get 5x 738s from ATL!

NW used to fly 3x 320s. I am 6 foot 6 and I cant sit in a CRJ for too long.

Well back in those days there wasn't as much LCC competition from the likes of WN at ALB. But I do agree and ALB should at least have 1-2X daily MD-80's to ATL and E-Jets/CR9's to DTW/MSP.
My home airport (SDF) is down to 1 daily MD80 and 7 or 8 CRJ's & E-Jets to ATL, also no more DC9's to DTW and MSP. From SDF, ATL used to be generally 3-4X daily mainline with a 738 often in the mix.


User currently offlineSectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

god some people on here are so negative when good things happen at a place other than there favorite airport!

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 10):
Just because a flight is full does NOT mean it's making money. Most airlines are reporting record load factors in the 80+ percent range. that means the flights are full. if the average fare is not high enough to cover their costs, then the flight is losing money. there is a LOT of low fare competition in PVD and ALB that drives down average fares. so, if they are filling the planes with these low fares, and there isnt enough higher fares, then sorry - that flight, despite being full, isnt making money



User currently offlineJasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

what is the context of your comments? i do not have a favorite airport, i'm simply discussin the economics of the industry. The economics, and not favorites, ultimately dictate what airlines do.

Quoting Sectflyer (Reply 12):
god some people on here are so negative when good things happen at a place other than there favorite airport!



User currently offlineSectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

well they decided to go mainline again at PVD I suppose there must have been a reason for it other than a "feel good" measure! And today's full flight showed it.

User currently offlineB595 From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

Doesn't seem so long ago that I flew an AA F100 on ALB-ORD....Service is changing so quickly in the northeast it's hard to keep up with it.

User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Welcome to my world. SYR's mainline was cut a few months ago. I refuse to take a CRJ from DTW/JFK, and a CR7 from ATL. I'll take B6 or US, thanks. Or at least someone with an ERJ, a much more comfortable 50 seater.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

I think all airports in the northeast will keep a mix, and for ALB this is just a january downgrade for the slow season. Id be shocked if DTW didnt have mainline on it again by late spring/early summer.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineBoslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4509 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 17):
and for ALB this is just a january downgrade for the slow season.

Exactly, this was basically the service pattern last February and March. The merger has given Delta aircraft flexibility which allows them to better match capacity to demand.


User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4421 times:



Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 10):
Just because a flight is full does NOT mean it's making money

DL charges a premium for a majority of destinations from PVD versus BOS to the North especially including the important point to point ATL fares. If it was full as Sectflyer noted, i presume it wasn't a loser.


User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4335 times:

You think that ALB is alone in this?

Try the capital city of FL, a DL stranglehold.

For the the month of October TLH has been mainly all CRJ -- not even CR7!!

We are just now getting an MD88 and a CR9 back, but who knows how long they will stay.

Lots of unhappy FF's here in TLH (not to mention staff members) , but at least we can get to JAX fairly easily to avoid the dreaded CRJ.

Never understood the overuse of CRJ's when a single larger aircraft would match capacity for potentially better economies of scale-- however I realise that frequency can be important in a market, especially if feeding International flights at various times through ATL.

I wrote to delta.com about this a while ago, and got basically "Thanks for being a lifetime Platinum but you will have to suck it up on the CRJ's".

Good luck to all of you in ALB -- at least enjoy the CR9 while you can ..



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineSectflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4316 times:

He actually did not do to bad. PVD-FLL booked less than 2 weeks out was I think like 350$

Quoting Lat41 (Reply 19):
DL charges a premium for a majority of destinations from PVD versus BOS to the North especially including the important point to point ATL fares. If it was full as Sectflyer noted, i presume it wasn't a loser.



User currently offlineJasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4273 times:

I'll say it again - a full flight doesnt necessarily guarantee a profitable flight. you have anecdotal evidence that the flights are more expensive. they may charge a "premium" as you say, but you have no idea whether that premium is covering its costs of operating.

Quoting Lat41 (Reply 19):
DL charges a premium for a majority of destinations from PVD versus BOS to the North especially including the important point to point ATL fares. If it was full as Sectflyer noted, i presume it wasn't a loser.



User currently offlineCMK10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4264 times:

I don't understand what's so bad about a CRJ-200 on DTW-ALB. I'm tall and not thin but I do not mind these planes on routes of around ~550 miles. This route is 489 miles. And I cannot believe that someone is complaining about them on TLH-ATL or SYR-JFK.


"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
User currently offlineSkymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4233 times:



Quoting CMK10 (Reply 23):
This route is 489 miles. And I cannot believe that someone is complaining about them on TLH-ATL or SYR-JFK.

Very fair point for a short haul.

But there is more to it than that. These are flown by connection carriers (ASA, ComAir, etc) and a study of the DOT statistics show more delays, cancellations, etc, on these flights. This is not meant to disrespect the crews or personnel -- these are just raw facts.

When you do 150+ plus flights a year as I do, I personally find mainline much more comfortable, with better service (even in these times of cost controlled services) and much more reliable. Thus, I take pains with my bookings to avoid anything smaller than a CR9 or E175, which, in my opinion are "mini-mainliners"

Just my experiences over many years of flying.



I love to fly, and it shows!
25 Sectflyer : Well I will say it again. There has to be a reason that they decided to go mainline again at PVD. Maybe the actual flight will be marginally profitabl
26 Burnsie28 : NW does this too for about a month a lot of temporary around January 5th-February or march.
27 DeltaGuy767 : Let's remember folks that January and early February is a DREADFULLY slow period for airlines. It's in-between the holiday season and school vacations
28 PanAm330 : When the alternative on SYR-JFK is an E190 or an A320, yes, I will complain about a CRJ. The 700/900s are leaps and bounds better, but I still prefer
29 KstateinALB : Not surprising for the slow winter season. I'll expect that mainline will be back in April / May. Yes, and they will be on RJ's...
30 LRARjets : Ditto for LIT... About a year ago the last MD-88 was replaced and of the 10 flights a day to ATL a few were on CRJ-9's. Now even the CRJ-9's are gone
31 Isitsafenow : NW yanked all the nines from FNT which had good loads. NW/DL is 100 per cent RJ there HOWEVER airTran has 'real planes' at FNT and great loads for the
32 USAirALB : I hope your right, however its the same even in the summer. The upgrade from a CRJ to a DC9 to MSP did well, and for those of you that think 320s to
33 JBAirwaysFan : DL used to have multiple mainline flights at DAB for years. DAB was a mainline only station until May 31, 1999. DL added CRJs on June 1, but kept four
34 USAirALB : It just doesn't make sense, from my point of view. I knew this was going to happen, which is why I HATE mergers.
35 ALBNWA4 : It will. DL actually identified that the RJ'S can't handle that route. For years during the summers those flights were "weight critical" ten minutes
36 KstateinALB : The summer schedules are not even out yet...
37 Toltommy : C'mon Safe, you've been around long enough.... Good loads do not necessarily equal good yields. Between FNT and DTW, FL probably has too many seats i
38 DLMD90 : I noticed this too, I hope it does return, we JUST got it back! I'm on the Md88 PVD-ATL Sat, it's been a while!
39 USAirALB : Really..wait when did they identify that? And why can't they.? I know its a long route, I hope they won't drop it because of that..and why in the sum
40 Skymiler : BUF and ROC also get a LOT of Canadian traffic. DL tried to go all RJ 3 years ago at BUF and quickly found that they REALLY needed the mainline capac
41 Blueman87 : i sat in a crj-200 JFK to BOS to visit friend and i felt like the seat was metal i dont like them at all
42 Slcdeltarumd11 : and that is a rediculously short 187 mile trip! If you didnt like that imagine ALB-MSP on a CRJ Bad news for ALB I wish they flew mainline to ATL wit
43 JBAirwaysFan : I don't mind CR7s and bigger. I prefer mainline, but I will not settle for CR2s. I can get a window seat, but I have to crouch in my seat to look out
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