Jayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 4 Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3652 times:
Hi to all
this question inside me is just coming up from a few weeks.
I would like to share with you.
On my thoughts of India as a hub, first of all our airports BOM DEL should be refurbished(they are under the process of being revamped)
Secondly
our own Indian carrier like AI, IC, 9W, IT should perform well.
Esp AI !!
India is just 1153 miles away from DXB.
EK is such a strong carrier now offers connectivity almost to the whole world without codeshare as their Aircrafts have the range to do it.
Even AI has 77L which as more better than A345.Both are T7 flyers.They can fly almost the same range.
Even NRT,HKG, Changi act as hub for Airlines like BA, QF,DL, NW, to flights from US to Australia and to Oceania.
So what is preventing India to be a good Hub?I dont see airlines stopping in India and offer connectivity to other countries!
From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5981 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3571 times:
Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter): From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?
SOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3024 posts, RR: 17 Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3513 times:
From the trip reports i have read here and others it seems that Indian airports are always overcrowded. Adding flights will be over what those airports can cope with. it will create a lot of delays and frustration.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
ThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2274 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3439 times:
Right now it's no secret the domestic market in India is saturated and everyone has to price below costs to stay competitive let's keep in mind in India, a start up is limited to domestic ops for 5 years.....also many terminal facilities are limited and are in need of upgrades.
SpiceJet, IndiGo Airlines and GoAir, JetLite , Paramount Airways,Jagson Airlines, Jet Airways, Air India, Indian Airlines......there all competing and many areposting losses in the domestic and international markets...so one can argue there's no point ....it won't be profitable...
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3343 times:
This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.
Tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3295 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5): This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.
Everything I was going to say. Once the new terminal at DEL is ready, it would have a chance.
But then, who would do the flying? As thegreatRDU points out, the younger airlines are barred from international flying - as dumb a rule as I can think of. Meanwhile, AI, 9W and IT are having their issues with long-haul flying. Could the new terminal attract connecting pax to these carriers to turn their fortunes around? I don't know. and a new terminal probably means higher landing fees, doesn't it?
Maybe DEL would have become a transfer hub already if the infrastructure were better from the beginning, and route authorities were liberalised from the beginning. Or maybe even then, it wouldn't have been possible until India was generating enough business pax demand for itself. DXB and SIN may have a lot of transfer pax, but they're also business destinations in themselves.
MogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3120 times:
when one looks at the super hubs along the kangaroo route - HKG / SIN / BKK / DXB / DOH / AUH, and to a smaller extent - ICN/NRT, it's hard for *any* airport to compete with them, especially when pared with outdated infrastructure and over-crowding.
at least 3 of that list is consistently ranked Top 10 in the world, depends on the ranking.
the only ones who would even consider using DEL/BOM as a scissor hub would be a 2nd-tier or even 3rd-tier European or S.E. Asian carrier that cannot sustain nonstop long haul routes profitably.
Wasn't there an Air Asia X rumor of using AUH as their Euro scissor hub? But even they manage to get past that by acquiring the 340 to do STN nonstop.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10694 posts, RR: 100 Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3096 times:
Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter): On my thoughts of India as a hub, first of all our airports BOM DEL should be refurbished(they are under the process of being revamped)
India needs to get their hub up to "Class C" status. In other words, about 1 m^2 of space per person in the airport during the rush. BLR and HYD might be there right now, but those airports require more ground transportation and the 2nd runways.
BOM and DEL could both be hubs. BOM direly needs 3 runways (including re-aligning them so they are all parallel) and the terminal/concourse space.
Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 3): Overcrowded, old infrastructure, poor transfer facilities, delays, etc...
The transfer times between domestic and international flights must be improved dramatically. Both from a time perspective and the experience. e.g., the competition from JFK to COK will include EK. AI must become competitive with that experience. It is possible. But I've talked to friends who have flow to AMD/HYD/BLR via EK and AI in the last few years. All who are flying this year will be taking EK or transfering in Europe (to avoid the India 'transfer experieience).'
There are multiple reasons 9W set up a hub in BRU.
Ei2ksea From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 573 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3067 times:
As a frequent user of DEL, I am guessing traditional Indian bureaucracy is a huge factor also - from the odd 5 year rule through to procedures at the airport, the experience does not lend itself to being terribly enjoyable for the airlines or flying public.
AFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 734 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2902 times:
Having been to India - and very much enjoying the experience - the problem from my point of view is infrastructure and bureaucracy. Everything seems to move too slowly.
Atomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 543 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2693 times:
Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 11): Having been to India - and very much enjoying the experience - the problem from my point of view is infrastructure and bureaucracy. Everything seems to move too slowly.
BINGO. You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy. Actually, if you can solve those two problems (and not necessarily in that order), it could put India well on its way towards becoming a major world power, regardless of whether it's a major airline hub.
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2582 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5): This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.
The terminal facilities are a disgrace by international standards...however for the region they are not too bad but no way near anything that could be considered to be an international hub!
To be a medium-large international hub the airport would need 2 parallel (but separated) runways (or more than 2), and a decent terminal.
The other thing is the actual formalities.. there are almost as many security guards/government/airline staff as there are passengers and yet it still takes forever to do anything (this is for BOM in particular). For this to be fixed it would need some serious government intervention to streamline formalities and to equip the airport (and backend) with modern computers etc.
Kevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1154 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2311 times:
Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 12): BINGO. You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy.
Definitely. An awful lot of hassle always. Adding to the hassle, you would often need a transit visa for India if you're leaving the international terminal at any point in. This alone deters many people - and thus airlines - from hubbing/connecting in India. If you miss your flight you might be stuck in a dodgy corner at BOM with a lone vending machine for a few days..
I don't think we will see any significant international hub operations in India for many years to come - as already pointed out, the market is sagurated. The Kangaroo route is served by 10-15 airlines onestop already. Going to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. from Europe you mgith as well go direct, or else there are already countless connecting opportunities. And India is too far south if you're going from Europe to, say, Japan or China.
However, I think there is great potential when it comes to domestic hubbing. BOM and DEL are both nicely located for connections from practically all over the world to various destinations within India.
But right now, with the facilities in BOM and DEL, it's a pain to transfer international-domestic there. For instance, at BOM you have to venture out into the Indian streets and around the airport vicinity to go from International to Domestic. If you're going to, say, HYD, AMD, BLR etc., you'd probably travel smoother by connecting in DXB, FRA or whatever, rather than in India.
I think domestic <=> international hubbing could be a good opportunity for particularly DEL and BOM, but they are late - EK is practically doing all this for them now..
Regards,
Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-GOT-CPH-GOT-CPH-GOT-CPH...
Directorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1569 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2241 times:
Unless India acquires an airport designed to be a transfer hub, then it's going to fall short of the criteria reqired. DEL and HYD to some extent are getting there, but if popular criticism is anything to go by, still a long way to go.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6889 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2221 times:
Infrastructure is only one problem. You also need a strong home airline to provide the service and there's simply no airline in India that can compete with the likes of the Gulf carriers. In my opinion India missed the boat about 10-15 years ago. That was their opportunity to create the infrastructure and develop a couple of strong long haul domestic carriers to compete with the Gulf carriers and they totally blew it.
Tharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2117 times:
Quoting Directorguy (Reply 17): DEL and HYD to some extent are getting there, but if popular criticism is anything to go by, still a long way to go.
How can there be popular criticism if the new terminal at DEL isn't even open yet?
Don't confuse the newly built interim domestic terminal for the big combined intl/domestic terminal due to open next year.
413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2108 times:
Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter): From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?
Too many citizens not enough money to go around. Still too much poverty in the nation
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15734 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2102 times:
Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 12): You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy
If they fix those two things, they could blow the Middle East carriers to smithereens. But then again if they fix those two things India that means they found the holy grail
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Actually, if you can solve those two problems (and not necessarily in that order), it could put India well on its way towards becoming a major world power, regardless of whether it's a major airline hub.
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