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What Is Preventing India As A Hub For Airlines?  
User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Hi to all

this question inside me is just coming up from a few weeks.
I would like to share with you.

On my thoughts of India as a hub, first of all our airports BOM DEL should be refurbished(they are under the process of being revamped)

Secondly

our own Indian carrier like AI, IC, 9W, IT should perform well.
Esp AI !!

India is just 1153 miles away from DXB.
EK is such a strong carrier now offers connectivity almost to the whole world without codeshare as their Aircrafts have the range to do it.
Even AI has 77L which as more better than A345.Both are T7 flyers.They can fly almost the same range.

Even NRT,HKG, Changi act as hub for Airlines like BA, QF,DL, NW, to flights from US to Australia and to Oceania.


So what is preventing India to be a good Hub?I dont see airlines stopping in India and offer connectivity to other countries!

From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?

Thanks
Your opinions shall be highly appreciated!

(btw just joined A.net today!)

[Edited 2009-11-12 04:02:48 by jayeshrulz]


Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4747 times:



Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter):
From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?

I think this answers your original question.


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3419 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4689 times:
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From the trip reports i have read here and others it seems that Indian airports are always overcrowded. Adding flights will be over what those airports can cope with. it will create a lot of delays and frustration.


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User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Overcrowded, old infrastructure, poor transfer facilities, delays, etc...  old 


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User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Right now it's no secret the domestic market in India is saturated and everyone has to price below costs to stay competitive let's keep in mind in India, a start up is limited to domestic ops for 5 years.....also many terminal facilities are limited and are in need of upgrades.
SpiceJet, IndiGo Airlines and GoAir, JetLite , Paramount Airways,Jagson Airlines, Jet Airways, Air India, Indian Airlines......there all competing and many areposting losses in the domestic and international markets...so one can argue there's no point ....it won't be profitable...



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User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.

User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4471 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.

Everything I was going to say. Once the new terminal at DEL is ready, it would have a chance.

But then, who would do the flying? As thegreatRDU points out, the younger airlines are barred from international flying - as dumb a rule as I can think of. Meanwhile, AI, 9W and IT are having their issues with long-haul flying. Could the new terminal attract connecting pax to these carriers to turn their fortunes around? I don't know. and a new terminal probably means higher landing fees, doesn't it?

Maybe DEL would have become a transfer hub already if the infrastructure were better from the beginning, and route authorities were liberalised from the beginning. Or maybe even then, it wouldn't have been possible until India was generating enough business pax demand for itself. DXB and SIN may have a lot of transfer pax, but they're also business destinations in themselves.


User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4354 times:



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 6):

hi all
thanks for replying.

from what i have noticed that India HAD a nice opportunity expanding a few years ago in maybe 2006-2007.
AI was planning to start flights to Australia using 77W's and 9W wanted to expand to Africa i suppose?
But due to Something,it never materialized.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...09/23/stories/2007092351670100.htm
http://www.travelweekly.com.au/articles/23/0c04c023.asp



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User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4296 times:

when one looks at the super hubs along the kangaroo route - HKG / SIN / BKK / DXB / DOH / AUH, and to a smaller extent - ICN/NRT, it's hard for *any* airport to compete with them, especially when pared with outdated infrastructure and over-crowding.

at least 3 of that list is consistently ranked Top 10 in the world, depends on the ranking.

the only ones who would even consider using DEL/BOM as a scissor hub would be a 2nd-tier or even 3rd-tier European or S.E. Asian carrier that cannot sustain nonstop long haul routes profitably.

Wasn't there an Air Asia X rumor of using AUH as their Euro scissor hub? But even they manage to get past that by acquiring the 340 to do STN nonstop.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12898 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4272 times:
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Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter):
On my thoughts of India as a hub, first of all our airports BOM DEL should be refurbished(they are under the process of being revamped)

India needs to get their hub up to "Class C" status. In other words, about 1 m^2 of space per person in the airport during the rush. BLR and HYD might be there right now, but those airports require more ground transportation and the 2nd runways.

BOM and DEL could both be hubs. BOM direly needs 3 runways (including re-aligning them so they are all parallel) and the terminal/concourse space.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 3):
Overcrowded, old infrastructure, poor transfer facilities, delays, etc...

The transfer times between domestic and international flights must be improved dramatically. Both from a time perspective and the experience. e.g., the competition from JFK to COK will include EK. AI must become competitive with that experience. It is possible. But I've talked to friends who have flow to AMD/HYD/BLR via EK and AI in the last few years. All who are flying this year will be taking EK or transfering in Europe (to avoid the India 'transfer experieience).'

There are multiple reasons 9W set up a hub in BRU.

Lightsaber



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User currently offlineEi2ksea From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

As a frequent user of DEL, I am guessing traditional Indian bureaucracy is a huge factor also - from the odd 5 year rule through to procedures at the airport, the experience does not lend itself to being terribly enjoyable for the airlines or flying public.


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User currently offlineAFGMEL From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4078 times:

Having been to India - and very much enjoying the experience - the problem from my point of view is infrastructure and bureaucracy. Everything seems to move too slowly.


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User currently offlineAtomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3869 times:



Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 11):
Having been to India - and very much enjoying the experience - the problem from my point of view is infrastructure and bureaucracy. Everything seems to move too slowly.

BINGO. You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy.  checkmark  Actually, if you can solve those two problems (and not necessarily in that order), it could put India well on its way towards becoming a major world power, regardless of whether it's a major airline hub.

By the way, welcome to A.net, Jayeshrulz.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3758 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 5):
This is quite simple. The two largest markets (BOM/DEL) which are also relatively well located for hubs have awful infrastructure. They have international and domestic terminals that are spread far apart and moving between them is a pain. BOM is effectively a one-runway airport and is surrounded by development. When DEL terminal 3 is complete they will have a better shot at being a massive transfer point.

 checkmark 
The terminal facilities are a disgrace by international standards...however for the region they are not too bad but no way near anything that could be considered to be an international hub!
To be a medium-large international hub the airport would need 2 parallel (but separated) runways (or more than 2), and a decent terminal.

The other thing is the actual formalities.. there are almost as many security guards/government/airline staff as there are passengers and yet it still takes forever to do anything (this is for BOM in particular). For this to be fixed it would need some serious government intervention to streamline formalities and to equip the airport (and backend) with modern computers etc.



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User currently offlineLeftwing From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3704 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
infrastructure, bureaucracy

.... IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE... local airlines continue to make losses due poor turn around time...holding over airports, long taxi time...


User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1027 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3570 times:



Quoting Leftwing (Reply 14):

Ah yes i complete agree to this.

there is also a lot of inconsistency in their services.
If India shall be a hub, what do you want to see in India which attracts you here?



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User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3487 times:



Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 12):
BINGO. You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy.

Definitely. An awful lot of hassle always. Adding to the hassle, you would often need a transit visa for India if you're leaving the international terminal at any point in. This alone deters many people - and thus airlines - from hubbing/connecting in India. If you miss your flight you might be stuck in a dodgy corner at BOM with a lone vending machine for a few days..


I don't think we will see any significant international hub operations in India for many years to come - as already pointed out, the market is sagurated. The Kangaroo route is served by 10-15 airlines onestop already. Going to Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. from Europe you mgith as well go direct, or else there are already countless connecting opportunities. And India is too far south if you're going from Europe to, say, Japan or China.

However, I think there is great potential when it comes to domestic hubbing. BOM and DEL are both nicely located for connections from practically all over the world to various destinations within India.

But right now, with the facilities in BOM and DEL, it's a pain to transfer international-domestic there. For instance, at BOM you have to venture out into the Indian streets and around the airport vicinity to go from International to Domestic. If you're going to, say, HYD, AMD, BLR etc., you'd probably travel smoother by connecting in DXB, FRA or whatever, rather than in India.

I think domestic <=> international hubbing could be a good opportunity for particularly DEL and BOM, but they are late - EK is practically doing all this for them now..

Regards,

Kevin777  Smile



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User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Unless India acquires an airport designed to be a transfer hub, then it's going to fall short of the criteria reqired. DEL and HYD to some extent are getting there, but if popular criticism is anything to go by, still a long way to go.

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8212 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Infrastructure is only one problem. You also need a strong home airline to provide the service and there's simply no airline in India that can compete with the likes of the Gulf carriers. In my opinion India missed the boat about 10-15 years ago. That was their opportunity to create the infrastructure and develop a couple of strong long haul domestic carriers to compete with the Gulf carriers and they totally blew it.

User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3293 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 17):
DEL and HYD to some extent are getting there, but if popular criticism is anything to go by, still a long way to go.

How can there be popular criticism if the new terminal at DEL isn't even open yet?

Don't confuse the newly built interim domestic terminal for the big combined intl/domestic terminal due to open next year.


User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3284 times:



Quoting Jayeshrulz (Thread starter):
From the age of 4 i'll be reading my India is a developing country....now i'm 17 i wonder when will it develop?

Too many citizens not enough money to go around. Still too much poverty in the nation


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3278 times:



Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 12):
You boiled it down to two words: infrastructure, bureaucracy

If they fix those two things, they could blow the Middle East carriers to smithereens. But then again if they fix those two things India that means they found the holy grail Wink



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