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OAG Changes 11/13/09:AS/B6/DL/FL/NK/NW/UA/US/YX  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10323 times:

This compares what is for sale this week for the stated period versus what was for sale the prior week...NOT the prior year.

How to read:
AAA-BBB 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
AAA-BBB 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
AAA-BBB 4>6 MAY-JUN means the change is only for the stated period May to June

There was a lot to type, so please take it easy on any typos...

AS
BOI-GEG 2>0 JAN-
MCO-SEA 2>1 APR-
OGG-SJC 0>4/WK MAR-
OGG-SMF 0>1 MAR-
KOA-SJC 0>4/WK MAR-
CDB-ANC 3/WK>0 JAN-
SDP-ANC 3/WK>0 JAN-

B6
Appears to me that they are not shifting nearly so much into transcon for the Summer as they traditionally have...or they haven't loaded it yet.
BOS-BDA 0>1 MAY-
BOS-FLL 6>3 MAY-
BOS-JFK 7>8 MAY-
BOS-LAX 1>2 MAY-
BOS-MCO 6>5 MAY-
BOS-ORD 1>3 MAY-
BOS-PBI 5>2 MAY-
BOS-PIT 1>2 MAY-
BOS-RDU 1>3 MAY-
BOS-RSW 6>2 MAY-
BOS-SAN 1>2 MAY-
BOS-SDQ 1/WK>1 MAY-
BOS-SXM 0>2/WK MAY, CXLD IN JUNE
BOS-TPA 3>2 MAY-
FLL-EWR 5>3 MAY-
FLL-IAD 3>2 MAY-
FLL-SDQ 10/WK>1 MAY-
JFK-ACK 0>5/WK MAY-
JFK-BOS 7>8 MAY-
JFK-FLL 9>7 MAY-
JFK-IAD 3>2 MAY- (Wow, only 2 RTs in a "shuttle" market)
JFK-NAS 3>2 MAY-
JFK-OAK 10/WK>2 MAY-
JFK-PBI 9>4 MAY-
JFK-POP 1>16/WK
JFK-ROC 4>5 MAY-
JFK-RSW 6>4 MAY-
JFK-SEA 1>2 MAY-
JFK-SJU 5>6 MAY-
JFK-STI 5>6 MAY-
LGA-MCO 2>3 MAY-
LGB-IAD 2>1 MAY-
LGB-LAX 2>3 MAY-
MCO-BQN 1>2 MAY-
MCO-BUF 2>1 MAY-
MCO-SJU 6>5 MAY-
MCO-SYR 2>1 MAY-
PBI-EWR 2>1 MAY-
PBI-LGA 2>1 MAY-
RSW-EWR 1>1 MAY-

DL
ATL-ARN 4/WK>0 MAR-
ATL-CPH 1>5/WK MAR-APR
ATL-CSG 5>4 FEB-
ATL-HHH 3>4 MAR-
JFK-YHZ 0>1 FEB-
LAX-OGG 1>2 MAR-
SLC-OGG 1>0 MAR-
LAX-SAN 0>5 FEB-
SLC-TPA 1>1/WK FEB-APR

F9
DEN-OKC 5>4 JAN-

FL
ATL-AUA STARTS JAN INSTEAD OF FEB
DCA-MCO 2>1 APR-
MKE-DCA 2>3 APR-
MKE-CAK 0>3 JAN-
MKE-DFW 0>2 APR-
MKE-DSM 0>3 FEB-
MKE-IND 1>3 JAN-
MKE-OMA 0>3 FEB-
MKE-PIT 1>3 DEC-
MKE-STL 2>3 DEC-
SAN-ATL 0>1 MAY-
SAN-MKE 0>1 MAY-
SFO-ATL 2>1 JAN-APR

NK
DTW-LAS 1>2 MAY-
FLL-LAS 1>2 MAY-
LGA-MYR 3>4 MAY-

NW
BJI-MSP 3>2 FEB-
HNL-SEA 2>1 MAR-
LAS-LAX 3>4 FEB-
MSP-PVR 2>1 FEB-MAR
MSP-TUL 3>2 FEB-

UA
BKW-IAD 0>1 MAR- (SVC WAS PREV ENDING)
BKW-SHD 2>1 MAR-
Wonder if UA is building LAX after the NW/DL LAX announcement...different markets, though.
BWI-LAX 1>2 FEB-
DEN-LAX 8>9 FEB-
PHL-LAX 1>2 FEB-
SBA-LAX 6>8 JAN-
SBP-LAX 4>5 JAN-
YUM-LAX 4>5 JAN-

ORD-BRU 0>1 MAR-
SFO-DFW 1>2 FEB-
SFO-HNL 3>4 APR-
SFO-PHL 3>2 FEB-APR
SFO-SAN 8>7 FEB-

US
LAS-MSP 1>0 JAN- (GUESS THEY MISSED THIS ONE LAST WEEK!)
LGA-FPO 1/WK>0 FEB-

YX
BOS-MCI 1>0 JAN-APR

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9956 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-IND 1>3 JAN-
MKE-OMA 0>3 FEB-
MKE-PIT 1>3 DEC-
MKE-STL 2>3 DEC-

'

Just to be clear, these four markets are going to OO.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9925 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
CDB-ANC 3/WK>0 JAN-
SDP-ANC 3/WK>0 JAN-

Aren't these operated by PenAir? And if so, does this mean that PenAir is cancelling the route, or that AS is terminating the codeshare?



Next flight: GRR-ORD-PDX-SEA-ORD-GRR
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9854 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Just to be clear, these four markets are going to OO.

True, but still under the FL code. OO is not selling them under the OO code even though they are prorate flying. BTW, XJ published their whole schedule this week separately from NW under their XJ code. Odd? I wonder if it was a mistake.

Quoting Web (Reply 2):
Aren't these operated by PenAir? And if so, does this mean that PenAir is cancelling the route, or that AS is terminating the codeshare?

All I know is that they are deleted from OAG for AS. They appear to still be listed under PenAir. I don't know what to make of that. Could be an error or they dropped the code share or PenAir will sync it next week by dropping them.


User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 410 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9855 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AS
BOI-GEG 2>0 JAN-

Very, very odd. QX has operated this route forever. Their only direct competition is WN, but this is the fastest and by far the easiest way to get from Boise to Northern Idaho. Wonder what is behind this one!


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9804 times:



Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 4):
Very, very odd. QX has operated this route forever. Their only direct competition is WN, but this is the fastest and by far the easiest way to get from Boise to Northern Idaho. Wonder what is behind this one!

I thought so too, but it's probably a combination of WN and a declining commitment to BOI (former focus city).


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9790 times:



Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 4):
Wonder what is behind this one!

Absolutely horrible yields. Everything under the sun was tried to make this route profitable. Just wasn't happening. You can only let something lose money for so long, and from what I've heard, it has lost money for quite a while.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9745 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
True, but still under the FL code.

Correct - just wanted to make clear that those frequency increases don't come with much of an increase in capacity.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMKE717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9703 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
YX
BOS-MCI 1>0 JAN-APR

Does this mean its a seasonal cut? If so, has this route always been seasonal?



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9637 times:

B6 announced more expansion in BOS, including new flights to CLT and DEN among others. Did you include that in a previous thread?

According to B6's website, the BOS-FLL flight will have 4 flights, not 3.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9334 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LGB-LAX 2>3 MAY-

I'm guessing this is something else. What is it really?


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9300 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
BTW, XJ published their whole schedule this week separately from NW under their XJ code. Odd? I wonder if it was a mistake.

I noticed that earlier in the week when I was looking at something and for example TOL-DTW had DL, NW, and XJ codes on it. Also, the XJ codes had different flight times.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9218 times:

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
FL

MKE-DSM 0>3 FEB-



Interesting thing that AirTran is doing here - partnering with Skywest to provide regional flights in seven markets.

http://dsmairport.com/PDF/SkyWest%20AirTranDSM.pdf

[Edited 2009-11-13 11:22:49 by planespotting - revised after reading press release]

[Edited 2009-11-13 11:23:31 by planespotting]


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9199 times:



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 12):
MKE, especially since FL will enter with 3 717s, effectively quadrupling the number of seats on the route (From approx. 100 to 430 ish).

FL is "using" SkyWest CRJ's, so it's only 150 seats.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2896 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8979 times:

Thanks as always for the wealth of data, Enilria...

Quoting MKE717spotter (Reply 8):
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
YX
BOS-MCI 1>0 JAN-APR

Does this mean its a seasonal cut? If so, has this route always been seasonal?

Yes, that notation indicates seasonal, meaning it ends January and returns April. If it were showing as a total drop it would just say BOS-MCI 1>0 JAN.

Next week the OAG tapes should show it returning, with the addition of an evening MCI-BOS in January. That started showing up for sale on the YX site just yesterday, so I suspect it will show up on the OAG files soon.

Today's MCI-BOS is at 6:00am, and that aircraft will go to MCI-RSW during winter. Hence MCI-BOS appears to be going to zero during January-April.

The just-added MCI-BOS trip (which should show up in OAG soon) is at 6:00pm, with an early morning return BOS-MCI. It's designed to dovetail for connections to and from LAX/SAN/SFO.

When MCI-RSW ends, the 6:00 MCI-BOS is planned to return, and as such they now have 2x/day MCI-BOS for sale starting later in April.


User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2673 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8323 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
B6
Appears to me that they are not shifting nearly so much into transcon for the Summer as they traditionally have...or they haven't loaded it yet.

Holy Florida pulldown. It seems a little bit deeper of a cut than in previous years.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SLC-TPA 1>1/WK FEB-APR

Timing off this one seems a little off - pull down during the three months a year it makes the most sense to operate this daily.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8136 times:



Quoting Panam330 (Reply 15):
Holy Florida pulldown. It seems a little bit deeper of a cut than in previous years.

Really? It seems similar to this past summer - which was a vast reduction over summer 2008. Northeast-Florida flying has definitely been pulled down in favor of more frequencies in other markets, specifically the Caribbean.

Nice to see that B6 has picked up an additional slot at LGA. Next summer will see 5x FLL, 3x MCO and 1x PBI. (This winter is 5x FLL, 2x MCO and 2x PBI).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSkyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7989 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-CAK 0>3 JAN-

Is there really enough demand for non-stop service between MKE and CAK to justify this? I find it hard to believe that there will be enough people in MKE with a burning desire to go to CAK and vice versa to support this.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7832 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 14):
The just-added MCI-BOS trip (which should show up in OAG soon) is at 6:00pm, with an early morning return BOS-MCI. It's designed to dovetail for connections to and from LAX/SAN/SFO

Ummmm, Knope', are you letting some inside info out here or did you speak in error (or perhaps out of habit?) I, SANFan, am very curious about your second sentence... Please clarify or IM me if appropriate.

bb


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2896 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7823 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 18):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 14):
The just-added MCI-BOS trip (which should show up in OAG soon) is at 6:00pm, with an early morning return BOS-MCI. It's designed to dovetail for connections to and from LAX/SAN/SFO

Ummmm, Knope', are you letting some inside info out here or did you speak in error (or perhaps out of habit?) I, SANFan, am very curious about your second sentence... Please clarify or IM me if appropriate.

Rats....my mistake. Meant that to be MKE/SEA/SFO. I'm still hoping, thought!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25171 posts, RR: 48
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7582 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LGB-LAX 2>3 MAY-

 Confused  Confused



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7546 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 17):
Is there really enough demand for non-stop service between MKE and CAK to justify this? I find it hard to believe that there will be enough people in MKE with a burning desire to go to CAK and vice versa to support this.

Well, add the 6 O and D pax with the 15 connecting thru MKE and.........well, I don't think it'll last long.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7363 times:



Quoting MKE717spotter (Reply 8):
Does this mean its a seasonal cut? If so, has this route always been seasonal?

Yes, see explanation at top of thread...

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 14):

Next week the OAG tapes should show it returning, with the addition of an evening MCI-BOS in January.

That's bizarre, so it is a screw up?

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
B6 announced more expansion in BOS, including new flights to CLT and DEN among others. Did you include that in a previous thread?

They loaded DEN immediately after WN announced DEN-BOS. CLT was loaded a few weeks back as I remember.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9):
According to B6's website, the BOS-FLL flight will have 4 flights, not 3.

Who knows. I can't explain those types of things.

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
Also, the XJ codes had different flight times.

Huh, weird...

Quoting Panam330 (Reply 15):
Timing off this one seems a little off - pull down during the three months a year it makes the most sense to operate this daily.

It appears that was the only period of time it was to run daily, it is normally only once per week, but I agree it would seem peak season deserves more.

Quoting SkyguyB727 (Reply 17):
Is there really enough demand for non-stop service between MKE and CAK to justify this?

NO...Good luck to them. CRJs are expensive to fly as well. Don't expect FL's normal fares.

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 10):
I'm guessing this is something else. What is it really?



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LGB-LAX 2>3 MAY-

Confused Confused

Should be LGB-LAS 2>3, sorry!


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4552 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7152 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 22):

NO...Good luck to them. CRJs are expensive to fly as well. Don't expect FL's normal fares.

I don't know. I'm finding those give away fares between IND and MKE on the CRJs as low as $49 each way.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7041 times:

SLC-OGG 1>0 MAR-

Dosnt seem to make sense this would add an extra stop for most (probably 90+%) of passengers in LAX. LAX has such limited connection power to the majority of origins of most OGG bound vacationers


25 SurfandSnow : I don't know about that. Whenever I've gone to Maui most visitors seem to be from the big West Coast cities (Seattle, Portland, Bay Area, LA/OC, San
26 AZNCSA4QF744ER : Wow more routes for OO at LAX This time they are flying this market competing with UA and DL.... More OO pro-rate flying for UAX Are these mainline U
27 Cubsrule : In the MKE markets they've been in with mainline, I don't think they've changed the fares much. The question becomes, then, whether they can do any b
28 Slcdeltarumd11 : I am sure alot more visitors than you think come from NYC the largest metro area in the country, BOS, Washington DC , DFW, IAH etc etc. etc..... DL n
29 Enilria : I don't know about better, but the CRJ can't make money on two digit fares. I would call this the "intro fare" period. It will end and I expect the f
30 MAH4546 : The numbers are not at all significant.
31 Cubsrule : I guess I wonder why that hasn't happened yet; we ought to be past the intro period on a route like MKE-STL. They wouldn't be doing places like CAK i
32 Mariner : Oh, I dunno. Doesn't it create a neat little quandary for Frontier/Midwest? mariner
33 Atrude777 : Read: WN When FL prob was going to end the "intro fare" WN came in with their own 49 one way type of thing, and FL had to match. WN is 53 total one w
34 Cubsrule : ...and if that's the answer, it means the prices aren't going anywhere, as WN isn't going anywhere. I don't think WN is making any money on that, tho
35 Atrude777 : I don't think WN is loosing or making money, STL-MKE is connected via MCI and BWI, both cities which are easily filled by WN out of STL. My family ha
36 Cubsrule : Come on. $53 for STL-MKE via BWI is about 5 cents a mile. They are losing money. If they are overselling STL-BWI, it's highly likely they could make
37 Enilria : They can't raise them there because the market is a trainwreck and now it has YX in it too. There are only three possibilities: 1) Skywest is clueles
38 Cubsrule : Is that why AA flies CAK-ORD and CAK-DFW and US has nothing smaller than an E75 on CAK-CLT? The two aren't the same market, and service levels reflec
39 Mariner : So how does Frontier/Midwest resolve the quandary? Do they consolidate at CAK or at CLE, or simply keep them separate? And if they are different mark
40 Cubsrule : It's an interesting question. I don't think CAK-MKE will make money, and WN doesn't (yet?) fly DEN-CLE. Those both seem to militate toward consolidat
41 Enilria : Last I looked CAK-ATL had a local market comparable to CLE-ATL. CAK is an airport built around LCC service and that service does well because it usua
42 Cubsrule : Many (not all, but probably most) passengers are coming from Cleveland, but that certainly does not mean that the two airports have the same passenge
43 JetBluefan1 : Actually, if I remember correctly, SFO-AUS-FLL was sold as a direct flight - and from what I heard, a large amount of passengers flying SFO-AUS conti
44 JA : The ERJ can make money on two digit fares up to about 1h 20m flying time, so the CRJ should be able to do it up to 1h 15m.
45 Enilria : I would call that semantics. I bet if you look at the passengers who fly out of CAK and fly several times per year, nearly every one of them has used
46 Mariner : I'm not quite as negative about Airtran's CAK-MKE as some. I doubt it will be gangbusters, but I'm not sure they're expecting it to be. I guess it ca
47 FL787 : It seems like kind of an odd route but I'm not too pessimistic because if FL can fly CAK-LGA/BOS why can't they get some westward traffic as well? I
48 Cubsrule : I agree, but all that you're saying is that when people can't use CAK to get where they need to go, they go to CLE. The percentage of CLE passengers
49 FL787 : Yeah that was poorly worded. I was more talking about people in CAK being loyal to FL so it's possible FL may get a lot of CAK travelers heading west
50 Cubsrule : I think they will, and for those passengers, MKE is a better choice than ATL (why doesn't FL fly CAK-BWI, btw?). None of the westbound markets is hug
51 FL787 : For sure. Personally I think CAK will do a whole lot better than OMA and DSM just because CAK is an existing FL market and a non-YX market. I've wond
52 Enilria : There isn't much left for me to debate because to me the statement above is the definition of a shared passenger base. You seem to have another defin
53 FL787 : Yeah, but there are no CRJs in BWI so it would have to be a 717. I'm not sure there's that type of O&D.
54 Cubsrule : It's a question of degree, I think. There are probably a fair number of people who usually use MSN who have driven to MKE or ORD for a flight at some
55 Knope2001 : That Akron-Milwaukee route is the one which makes me wonder if there’s more to the Skywest-AirTran deal than meets the eye. To hear AirTran describe
56 FL787 : Wow, good post. I wish I had the answers for you. I hadn't realized how horribly timed the flights are besides the late CAK-MKE. CAK definitely is th
57 Cubsrule : We can get an idea on the stimulation potential by looking at DEN, I think. I looked at some nearby markets that had similar competitive environments
58 Enilria : Here is what is interesting. Those flights were mostly overnights in those stations. That means instead of the plane getting up at 0700 and flying to
59 Cubsrule : ...which is why I didn't account it for MKE's proximity to Chicago, only for CAK's proximity to CLE, which does have n/s service to MKE. MKE generate
60 FlyPNS1 : But it's SkyWest that is setting the fares on the CAK-MKE segment...not FL. True, but for many in the northern Chicago suburbs (and I don't mean Evan
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