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New US1549 Simulation  
User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 623 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Brand new video released yesterday, pulls audio from several sources, and an incredible 3-D render of US1549, along with radar of the area during the incident.

Very well put together, and even if you've seen many 1549 computer sims, this one is by far the best.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjXCulRjPas&fmt=22

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWoof From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Very good. Kind of puts into perspective how long they had (or didn't have!) to make the right decision.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

The version that was posted yesterday starts at takeoff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE_5eiYn0D0


User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

This brings up a question I have had about this specific incident: have the CVR tapes ever been released? Or a transcript of the CVR? I think all I have ever heard/seen are transcripts of the ATC tapes.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6836 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4986 times:

One thing I never noticed-- see how they descended to 200 ft then floated up to 350 ft as speed continued to drop?

User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4933 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 4):
One thing I never noticed-- see how they descended to 200 ft then floated up to 350 ft as speed continued to drop?

That is because of the lowered flaps... lift is increased while staying on (nearly) the same speed (at least for a short while till the drag kicks in).


User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2325 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4879 times:



Quoting CatIII (Reply 3):
This brings up a question I have had about this specific incident: have the CVR tapes ever been released? Or a transcript of the CVR?

By law, CVR tapes cannot be released (in the USA, at least). A transcript was released in June. I haven't found the complete transcript, but this news article includes excerpts of it:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/200...ockpit_radio_communication_tr.html



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineLHRSpotter From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4532 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 2):
The version that was posted yesterday starts at takeoff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE_5e...Yn0D0

This video was posted about two weeks ago and IMHO is much better because it doesn't include so many audio tracks and the sound quality is better.


User currently offlineBA84 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4421 times:
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Here is the link to "The Making of the Video".
You will need a high speed connection.
Fascinating stuff!

http://www.exosphere3d.com/pubwww/pa...lery/cactus_1549_hudson_river.html

BA84


User currently offlineCatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3038 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3874 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 6):
By law, CVR tapes cannot be released (in the USA, at least).

Is that a new thing?


User currently offlineRailker From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Just watched the full-length version, from takeoff. Quite ironic to note what Sullenberger said at 2026:37 ...

"uh what a view of the Hudson today"

What a view, indeed. Even got to get a closer look  duck 


User currently offlineAirstairFear From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2837 times:



Quoting Moose135 (Reply 6):
By law, CVR tapes cannot be released (in the USA, at least).

I was under the impression this was the case as well. (Good or bad) But how is it then that we've all heard the DL 191 and Air Florida 90 clips? Sure I understand leaks, but mainstream sites wouldn't continue to post the clips if it was blatantly illegal.

I still hear "We're going down Larry!" in my head all the time.



CAM-1: Aw #. We're gonna hit houses dude.
User currently offlineMUWarriors From United States of America, joined May 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2712 times:



Quoting AirstairFear (Reply 11):

I was under the impression this was the case as well. (Good or bad) But how is it then that we've all heard the DL 191 and Air Florida 90 clips? Sure I understand leaks, but mainstream sites wouldn't continue to post the clips if it was blatantly illegal.

I believe it was those crashes that prompted the law change. Prior to that they were released.


User currently offlineNotLegalAdvice From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2502 times:



Quoting CatIII (Reply 9):

The NTSB has been prohibited since 1982 from releasing copies of CVR recordings. 49 USC 1114 forbids the NTSB from publicly disclosing the contents of any CVR recordings. They are allowed at certain authorized times (mentioned below) to release transcripts, but never recordings.

In 2004, Congress amended the statutes governing release of CVR data. The current version of 49 USC 1154 states that if someone tries to go to court to force the release of a CVR transcript or recording, "the court shall issue a protective order-- (i) to limit the use of the part of the transcript or the recording to the judicial proceeding; and (ii) to prohibit dissemination of the part of the transcript or the recording to any person that does not need access to the part of the transcript or the recording for the proceeding".

In 49 USC 1114, the NTSB is required to release transcripts at the time they hold a public hearing on the accident (or if there's no public hearing, at the time they release their main report). Otherwise, Section 1154 requires courts to limit discovery of the transcripts or recordings to their legitimate use in a trial.

As a result, you can't sue the FAA or an airline and get a copy of the CVR tape unless you have a damn good reason for doing so, and since courts have to limit the use as much as possible, courts will typically say the transcript is sufficient as evidence and the CVR tape isn't necessary. So there's no real way to go into a court and try to get a court to give you the CVR tape.

Furthermore, another part of Section 1154 states that any CVR tape or transcript that hasn't been released to the public already can only be used in court "under seal", meaning it won't be allowed into public view. That way, even if you manage to get a CVR tape into court, it'll stay in court; you can't sneak it out through requesting copies of court documents or having C-SPAN film the court proceedings. (This was prompted by a 1990 court case where a Texas state court allowed a TV station to get a copy of a CVR recording entered into evidence.)

The NTSB also requires any individual (including FAA employees and employees of the affected airline) to sign Non-Disclosure Agreements guaranteeing they will not publicly disclose the CVR recording. The net effect of all of this is that the NTSB remains in control of the actual recordings themselves, anyone else who has access to it is forbidden from distributing it, and enough legal protection is now in place to keep other parties from using a court to force that information to be released.

The preceding should not be taken as actual legal advice. Please retain counsel if you need actual advice on any legal matter.



The preceding should not be taken as actual legal advice. If you need legal advice, please retain legal counsel.
User currently offlineBA84 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
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Transport Canada released the Swissair 111 tape.

ATC tape of last minutes of communication with Swissair 111.
Controller is at Moncton Centre. Poignant!

http://www3.thestar.com/cgi-bin/star...ge=/Videos/070521_cp_swissair.html

BA84


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2326 times:



Quoting BA84 (Reply 14):
Transport Canada released the Swissair 111 tape.

I won't be listening to that and it was a bad move for them to do so.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1300 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2182 times:



Quoting NotLegalAdvice (Reply 13):

Wow. Thanks, I even learned something new  Smile

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlineBA84 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2054 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Just to clarify concerning Swissair 111.

It was the ATC recording that was released in May, 2007.

Not the CVR recording.

BA84


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2038 times:



Quoting BA84 (Reply 17):
Not the CVR recording.

Ah OK, thanks for the correction and I withdraw my previous comment. No problem with ATC tapes being released as ATC is already broadcast in the public domain.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineMoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2325 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1897 times:



Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 12):
I believe it was those crashes that prompted the law change.

In August 1988, DL 1141, a B727, departed DFW. With takeoff flaps not set, and a malfunctioning takeoff warning horn, the aircraft stalled and crashed on takeoff, killing 14 of 108 pax and crew on board. The NTSB report includes several notations of "non-pertinent conversation between the flight crew and a flight attendant" which was not detailed in the report.

The CVR tape was broadcast by the media, showing the full story of what happened in the cockpit. On the tape, some of the "non-pertinent conversation" included talk about the CO 1713 takeoff crash the prior year. They were discussing how the CVR tape of the CO crash recorded the crew discussing the dating habits of the flight attendants, and how "we have to leave something for our wives and children to listen to..." The uproar by pilot groups helped bring about the stricter laws on CVR release.

You can hear part of their discussion here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmCtJhCPEeQ



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineULMFlyer From Brazil, joined Sep 2006, 475 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

I wonder if anybody tried in the sim to keep turning towards LGA and attempt a RWY 13 landing. Despite the view in the window, it seems there was enough energy. However, I wonder how tricky the energy management would've been. After all, coming in too hot and overshooting would have left them in a world of hurt. And before somebody thinks I'm trying to say they could have done better, I've written before that their decision to ditch was the most impressive part of their airmanship display.

I also would love to see a simulation showing what they had available in front of them, which instruments were still working, particularly before the APU restarted (if it ever had time to).

But the best part in the simulation is the dialogue at 300 ft, 150 kts:
Capt: "Got any ideas?"
F/O: "Actually, not"

CRM at its best.



Let's go Pens!
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1646 times:



Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 20):
But the best part in the simulation is the dialogue at 300 ft, 150 kts:
Capt: "Got any ideas?"
F/O: "Actually, not"

I found this part poignant. Somehow the perception is that Scully is a born hero and he had everything under control. Obviously, he didn't. He couldn't! This dialogue clearly proves it. This doesn't detract a bit from the merit of his (their) performance.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
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