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Finnair Pilots Going On Strike On Monday  
User currently offlineAeroVega From Netherlands, joined Nov 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

The Finnair pilots have rejected the settlement proposals about the use of non-Finnair pilots on Finnair flights and will be on strike starting this Monday.

http://www.finnairgroup.com/info/index_9.html

I have a feeling Finnair is going to be in serious financial trouble soon.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4896 times:
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Quoting AeroVega (Thread starter):
I have a feeling Finnair is going to be in serious financial trouble soon.

And why is that???

Anyway it seems that the AY's pilots aren't going to get good PR in Finland since the mediator claims their actions are irresponsible and the general media coverage is letting out picture about stubborn pilots that only cares for them selfs..



Flying high and low
User currently offlineAeroVega From Netherlands, joined Nov 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4842 times:



Quoting Teme82 (Reply 1):


Quoting AeroVega (Thread starter):
I have a feeling Finnair is going to be in serious financial trouble soon.

And why is that???

Well, it's just a feeling. But I read that this strike is going to cost Finnair 2.5 to 5 million euro per day.

Add to that:
- plunging passenger numbers (-10% in October and still accelerating),
- the fact that Finnair is losing market share on their strategic Asian routes,
- new planes on order that they probably don't need,
- strong unions that will resist necessary cost cutting measures,
and the future doesn't look so bright to me.


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4498 times:
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Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):
- strong unions that will resist necessary cost cutting measures,
and the future doesn't look so bright to me.

As far as I know the problems with the cabin crew is now sorted so that every one is happy. And the pilots do agree on getting a pay cut and other arrangements to save money. The only issue is using 3rd party pilot's on AY's planes.



Flying high and low
User currently offlineOlympic472 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Are Finnair Pilots Going On Strike? (by AeroVega Nov 12 2009 in Civil Aviation)
More on this thread.



Civil Aviation has a "Need for Speed"!
User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 759 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4281 times:
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Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):
- the fact that Finnair is losing market share on their strategic Asian routes

Not good at all. How was their 3 quarter results?

Does anyone know how long the strike will last? Just one day or are we talking days?

Reminds me of how SK started their downward spiral  Sad

Cheers
Stein



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlineAeroVega From Netherlands, joined Nov 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4276 times:



Quoting Teme82 (Reply 3):
As far as I know the problems with the cabin crew is now sorted so that every one is happy. And the pilots do agree on getting a pay cut and other arrangements to save money.

Did the Finnair CEO not resign in August because he found the measures insufficient? Has anything changed since then?


User currently offlineAverageUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting AeroVega (Reply 6):
Did the Finnair CEO not resign in August because he found the measures insufficient?

I think he was asked to pack up, he had managed to inflame the relations with all Finnair unions. How that was spun is another thing. The pilots have been without a negotiated contract for 18 months, so nobody can claim this development was not in the cards. A lot of pressure rests now on the new CEO, Mika Vehviläinen, 48, formerly of Nokia Siemens Networks. At least one sign is promising, the future CEO has already publicly praised the company and has not singled out the pilots as the reason for the financial losses.

[Edited 2009-11-15 13:01:32]

User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4005 times:



Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):

Add to that:
- plunging passenger numbers (-10% in October and still accelerating),
- the fact that Finnair is losing market share on their strategic Asian routes,
- new planes on order that they probably don't need,
- strong unions that will resist necessary cost cutting measures,
and the future doesn't look so bright to me.

Ahh the life of legacy carriers worldwide...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3870 times:



Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):
- the fact that Finnair is losing market share on their strategic Asian routes,

Is there some publicly accessible data about this? For what it is worth, I flew them in the last few weeks to a couple of Asian destinations, and on my flights all seats were taken in all classes. I love the new A340s, by the way. Power on every seat, including tourist class, for instance.


User currently offlineJayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

They are correct in doing so.
Why keep expats when the locals are doing much better?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlineNormie999 From United Kingdom, joined May 2009, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3540 times:

With all this gloom around, it's a good job that the the girls and boys over at Finnair's Plus Points marketing dept have come up with this humdinger of a new Plus Points partner.

More details here.

Do any other airlines offer breast augmentations and other plastic surgery procedures as part of its redemption offer?


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3396 times:
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Quoting Normie999 (Reply 11):
Do any other airlines offer breast augmentations and other plastic surgery procedures as part of its redemption offer?

I don't know others... But if I buy a Volvo eDRIVE model car I will get 40000 points ... Big grin



Flying high and low
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

I perfectly understand this. If you are willing to introduce cost cuts and give up some of your bonuses, you want a job security for that. And bringing in 3rd party pilots is definitly the exact oposite of that. Go Finnair pilots on this move! I am with you on this one!


- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3336 times:
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Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 13):
Go Finnair pilots on this move! I am with you on this one!

Will your still be congratulating them when their carrier bites the dust due to their irresponsible, irrational requests and behavior?

Guess what else helps job security? Being cash positive.



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineStr1tch From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Actually, this fight has been brewing for a long time, and truth is, and the publicly known facts are simple: What AY would like to do is lease their Embraer 170's to Finncomm, which are uneconomical to operate on most sectors with AY crew, and have them operate the aircraft on domestic and shorthaul regional routes. Basically, the mainline pilots want to continue to operate the regional jets. They are willing to take the 5% pay cut and other cuts in benefits for the whole pilot group in order to bring the numbers closer, but the fact is Finmcomm crew costs are approximately half of AY's.

What this whole battle really is about is fundamental change, and using this pilot strike as the management excuse to cut through the whole structure of the airline. The pilots were always the ones that were the most hard line, and were always the ones that would bring management to the brink to see if they would blink or not.

The other unions saw this coming, and that is why they quickly signed up to concessionary deals with stabilization agreements which guaranteed no job cuts for their members. Jukka Hienonen, the outgoing CEO, either willingly or unwillingly, has been put right up there to fight this fight, as at this point he has nothing to lose. He's gone in February no matter what. It's why he has stayed on the full 6 months of his resignation period. The newly appointed CEO, who does not come on board before January, has been totally silent, and most likely will remain so. This is not his battle. He's the peacetime general who will come in with the clean slate and try to get everyone to get along

You just know this has been planned out beforehand.


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
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I was reading an article about the resolution, and one part had me wondering " how does this help Finnair employees?"

Quote:
Finnair and the pilots made a two-year deal, which will cut Finnair pilots' wages by five per cent and it was agreed that routes Finnair will outsource to Finncomm Airlines will not be advertised as Finnair flights. The toughest issue to solve was outsourcing

It says that they agreed that Finncomm flights wouldn't be advertised as Finnair flights. How does that help anyone? Many companies get together for marketing efficiencies... if anything, advertising the Finncomm flights as Finnair ones will boost overall traffic at AY, which helps everyone (unless average load factors were already 100%). Unless I'm missing something here, it appears as though they're just being stubborn..



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineJRDC930 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Good For them! Let management know they will not be bullied! I am pro labor, and these pilots will have to force Finnair's greedy execs to listen to them. Id like to see them scab all the pilots...glad to see they will stick it to the man.  thumbsup 

I dont care how trivial an issue is, i will always support labor's right to strike, i hope it works out for them.


User currently offlineOkAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2754 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 16):

I'm not sure what the new work contract says in general about third-party- flight deck crew-utilisation, but specifically about Finncom, it was agreed that AY can now outsorsce two Embraer aircraft to Finncom, and these aircraft will be flown with Finncom flight deck crews. But these flights must not be advertised as AY flights, but purely as Finncom flights. This arrangement should delete thoughts that the Finncom Emraer flights would be sub chatered by AY. So, in other words the out sourcing of these two aircraft is like renting them out for Finncom.

okAY


User currently offlineOkAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2748 times:



Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):

Quite strong arguments you are giving there, got any data to back ur words up?

okAY


User currently offlineTeme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2595 times:
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Quoting OkAY (Reply 19):
Quite strong arguments you are giving there, got any data to back ur words up?

YOu are referring my comments ?! Your quote isn't really clear ..  Wink


Anyway as any common man in Helsinki or anywhere in Finland about how they feel about the pilots strike I would bet few euro cents that they have negative things to say about the pilots.



Flying high and low
User currently offlineAeroVega From Netherlands, joined Nov 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2480 times:



Quoting OkAY (Reply 19):


Quoting AeroVega (Reply 2):

Quite strong arguments you are giving there, got any data to back ur words up?

How about this :

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fin...ard+trend+in+October/1135250634379

Let's be glad the strike lasted only two days.


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