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BA - IB Merger: What's In Store For LGW?  
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Maybe it's too early to ask this question, but does anyone have any idea what will happen with BA's fligths to/from LGW, if the merger with IB happens? Could the airport be abandoned, in the great scheme of things, if the big new combined company goes toward a dual-hub LHR - MAD system?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

I imagine down the road LGW will be abandoned or pulled back in favor of LHR. The split hub is not a good idea. Will that happen now? Who knows. It will be nice for those flying from TPA to be able to connect to flights to JNB or those flying from BOS to be able to connect to flights to CTA, but when that happens is beyond me.


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User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

LGW wil stay much the same as it is now. At the moment most of the routes aren't dupilicated - and although the operation is much smaller than before it's still way too big to be absorbed at LHR.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5736 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6605 times:

With IB's heavy focus on Latin America it isn't totally inconceivable that they take over some of the Caribbean flying from LGW with traffic routed through MAD. That said, given that most Caribbean nations were British, rather than Spanish, colonies there are still strong economic ties between the region and the UK; while the UK provides countless millions of tourists to the region every year. As such the demand for links is there and given that there is no room to move the likes of ANU and PLS over to LHR BA would be leaving the make wide open to VS (and even BD) if they were to actually move these routes to MAD. As such there is bound to be a future for LGW longhaul for so long as LHR doesnt expand. As for short-haul, who knows - most of the routes out of LGW are leisure orientated (PSA, NAP, BRI etc) and there has therefore been a semi-perpetual question mark over the longevity of these routes for years.


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineRutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6433 times:
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My take on things BA and Gatwick in the next year or so (Conjecture and considered opinion.)

1. BA acquire 8 slot pairs at Heathrow at a knock down lease price from LH and transfer the remaining seven/eight 777s used on the Caribbean/Florida and Egypt/Maldives wedding rotations.
These will operate from T3

2. Amsterdam and domestics closed at Gatwick.

3. That leaves the French and Italian provisional services, the non EU routes to Pristina and Tirana and a selection of European sun/villa owner flights at Gatwick.
BA may well add to the current list of sun/villa routes as the economy improves.

4. What about Luxembourg maybe move to City ?

Leaving just Tunis as an odd ball i suppose.

Most of the Gatwick traffic is moving towards O&D really and its really the Italian routes that cause BA some difficulty in integration transfers and transits with LGW/LHR/LGW ground transfers.

By the way there is NOWAY BA would give up its Caribbean network to IB.
Its more likely any consolidation in this arena would go to AA via Miami.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6417 times:
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Quoting Aircellist (Thread starter):
Maybe it's too early to ask this question, but does anyone have any idea what will happen with BA's fligths to/from LGW, if the merger with IB happens?

Let me make the same question but seen from the Spanish view point... what will be the fate of BCN once IB and BA will be merged?

Iberia, actually only serves MAD from BCN (without counting flights operated by Vueling and Air Nostrum brands) and BA only serves LHR and LCY (this last airport seasonal on Spring and Summer seasons)...

Regards,

Gerard



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6336 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 4):
BA acquire 8 slot pairs at Heathrow at a knock down lease price from LH and transfer the remaining seven/eight 777s used on the Caribbean/Florida and Egypt/Maldives wedding rotations.
These will operate from T3

I'd be very surprised if they did move them. They have no real reason to, they do well out of LGW, the base is well established and they have slots they want at the times they want with the connections they want. In fact over the last couple of years LFs have been increasing at LGW.

I can see the argument for consolidation, but I just don't think it'll happen, the benefits aren't great enough to warrant the move. If all domestics were removed from LGW that would be a very large amount of capacity removed from the market because they sure wont all fit at LHR. Moving the long hauls would also require an awkward connection between terminals at LHR whereas currently you just have to change within the North Terminal.

And.. The London market is not ALL about LHR. There's a large population with a high propensity to fly for whom LGW is much more convenient.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 761 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

I think out of all of LGW the long-haul routes are the most likley to stay. Remember orgionally BA only had long-haul routes at LGW before the dan-air meger.

User currently offlineMutu From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Well how about BA buys EI in about 2 years when EI's new LCC type operation at LGW is proven and established. All BA shorthaul ops transfer over to the EI model.

Longhaul probably stays at LGW but could move to LHR if (a) slots coud be found: and (b) no more profitable use of those slots can be found (meaning they probably stay at LGW)
The only sticking point: FR owns a very large piece of EI!!


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5969 times:

I can't remmber if BA still owns the BCal name? While some would say it'd be heresy to reuse the brand, BA LGW is already quite different from BA LHR, certainly in shorthaul. I think the O&D leisure routes will remain at LGW, though as has been suggested the North African and Low Country routes could be closed/moved to LHR if BA could get some slots.

If BA wanted to simplify the Longhaul operation at LGW, moving BGI and BDA to LHR (slots again!) would allow all longhauls to become three-class 777s.

I'll be interested to see if the merger were to lead to increased Spain-London flying. If LHR is one of the hubs, could there be demand to add more flights from Spain to LHR, likely on BA metal? Indeed, apart from MAD-LHR, would there be any need for IB to serve LHR with its own metal?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3926 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5925 times:



Quoting Mutu (Reply 8):
Well how about BA buys EI in about 2 years when EI's new LCC type operation at LGW is proven and established. All BA shorthaul ops transfer over to the EI model.

I think if I were to guess, I'd go for something like this too!


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Would be good to get a Vueling BCN-LGW service to compete with U2.

User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5849 times:



Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
BA would be leaving the make wide open to VS (and even BD) if they were to actually move these routes to MAD.



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 4):
By the way there is NOWAY BA would give up its Caribbean network to IB.
Its more likely any consolidation in this arena would go to AA via Miami.

I guess both opinions is that BA will be the driving force in the merger and will dictate what happens, if IB is the driving partner based on the way both sides competed during the "glory days" IB would have no problem routing Caribbean traffic via MAD, it could be promoted as integrating the English and Spanish speaking countires.

There is a similar thread on the fleet optimization, unless they intened to run this merger like AF / KLM.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7620 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5773 times:



Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 9):
apart from MAD-LHR, would there be any need for IB to serve LHR with its own metal?

Starting with the current winter schedules IB are only operating from MAD to LHR. BA metal now operates all LHR-BCN flights.


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Caribbean folk will never go via MAD ..they rather go via MIA first. BA is expanding in the region with some really stellar routes (BGI)...if BA ever withdrew look for VS/BW/JM to jump on the routes immediately.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1775 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5576 times:



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 14):
Caribbean folk will never go via MAD ..they rather go via MIA first. BA is expanding in the region with some really stellar routes (BGI)...if BA ever withdrew look for VS/BW/JM to jump on the routes immediately.


To that point, I think LGW will continue to have a big role in O/D for London, including some BA routes like those to the Caribbean.


User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5150 times:



Quoting Rutankrd (Reply 4):
By the way there is NOWAY BA would give up its Caribbean network to IB.
Its more likely any consolidation in this arena would go to AA via Miami.



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 14):
Caribbean folk will never go via MAD ..they rather go via MIA first.

Two passes (one each way) through US immigration at MIA will drive away customers in hordes.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 15):
To that point, I think LGW will continue to have a big role in O/D for London, including some BA routes like those to the Caribbean.

I beleive this is indeed the case. The only exception may be TPA which may benefit from moving to LHR (provide one connection access to Europe for TPA originating passengers).

DLP


User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4723 times:



Quoting Mutu (Reply 8):
Well how about BA buys EI in about 2 years when EI's new LCC type operation at LGW is proven and established. All BA shorthaul ops transfer over to the EI model.

Nope, can't see it happening. Nothing to stop BA short haul changing to the EI model now....why the need to buy EI to do it?


User currently offlineAustralis From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

Could we see perhaps the like of the new Vueling basing themselves aswell from LGW and opening up new city pairs from LGW to cater to the lcc market??

Just something that could happen i guess.


User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4612 times:



Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 16):
Two passes (one each way) through US immigration at MIA will drive away customers in hordes.

Caribbeans don't seem to have a problem waiting in endless lines... it's the way things are done here... (slightly tongue-in-cheek) but not really! Island time is vastly different (not to mention maddening)! The Caribbean mindset is geared toward the States and the colonizing power. Almost everyone in the Caribbean has relatives in both. That's not a criticism, just an observation.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4318 times:
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Quoting Richardw (Reply 11):
Would be good to get a Vueling BCN-LGW service to compete with U2.

Would be very nice to see it...



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4223 times:

I think basically BA will hold on to LGW for all those non-significant, tourist traffic flights, that is holiday hotspots in Carribbean, Indian Ocean and USA and European tourist flights.

I think it will also want to hold onto its range of domestic flights at LGW too. It's money for old rope and supports the capacity of the larger aircraft based at LGW.

I doubt IB's new relationship with BA will have any effect whatsoever on LGW. I hope their will be IB aircraft operating IB routes at LGW though.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4088 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 21):
think basically BA will hold on to LGW for all those non-significant, tourist traffic flights, that is holiday hotspots in Carribbean, Indian Ocean and USA and European tourist flights.

BA is increasing its holidays spots and said that they see a future in longhaul holiday destinations. So I expect BA to stay at LGW for the time being.

There were rumours about BA returning to TFS. Is this correct?

What about secondary Spanish cities? VLC, SVQ, ALC?



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineAirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4012 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 21):
for all those non-significant, tourist traffic flights, that is holiday hotspots in Carribbean, Indian Ocean and USA and European tourist flights.

What are "non-significant" about flights which earn tens of millions of £ per year? What are you defining as 'significant' and 'non-significant' flights?


User currently offlineVS747SPUR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3895 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 21):
I think basically BA will hold on to LGW for all those non-significant, tourist traffic flights, that is holiday hotspots in Carribbean, Indian Ocean and USA and European tourist flights.

I disagree about the flights being non-significant, if the flights were non-significant, wouldn't they have been dropped by now, especially in the current climate?



Fly DL
25 VV701 : When BA take delivery of their 787s I expect to see a significant growth in new O&D LGW long haul routes. Assuming the British (and world) econonomy h
26 BCAL : While the BCal name disappeared, the original Caledonian Airways name survived as the new identity for BA's charter airline (some people also claim t
27 RAFVC10 : Sevilla has direct flights operated by the Iberia's low cost arm Vueling; Valencia is supposed to see again direct flights on spring and summer and M
28 Mutu : Well perhaps EI will need a buyer and geographically feed into LHR is the least painful option for a (perhaps) by then short haul carrier. And perhap
29 Yellowtail : I look for BA to add some long haul leisure destinations out of LGW....maybe even one or 2 surprises.....
30 Andaman : I wouldn't be surprised if AY make a move towards BAIB, that would be the natural direction. AY+SK have been in talks lately they say but probably to
31 JBAirwaysFan : Wouldn't a combined BA-IB have extra slots anyway at LHR? BA-IB could just rearrange their flying at LHR somehow.
32 Babybus : Not significant enough to put the flight out of Heathrow. I guess this is because such passengers are local to the south east or have very simple con
33 AirNZ : Yes, I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying and my take is that I just can't see it happening. However, I'm curious why you would find it im
34 Davehammer : Domestically speaking LGW is far better connected than LHR, and many passengers do self connect at LGW. Other than that yes there's a fair bit of O&D
35 BlueShamu330s : We are in the realms of fantasy though here AirNZ. We are both agreed EI is nowhere on BA's radar. I'm surprised no-one has raised the notion of Flyb
36 Luckyone : Can we unscramble that and make words out of it???!
37 OB1504 : LH / LX / OS / LO / SN / BD / SK. Lufthansa owns several European carriers, but it never hit me just how many until I saw this post.
38 Luckyone : Sorry, I knew what it meant, lol. Twas a rather lame attempt at humor I guess! There are so many letters floating around in there that I thought it'd
39 Andaman : Lufthansa doesn't own SK, not yet at least.
40 R2rho : I think LGW has nothing to fear, BA will continue operating there if only because LHR is hopelessly saturated and LGW is its natural reliever. The big
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