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What Smoker Departed PHX 11/17 2PM?  
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2979 posts, RR: 9
Posted (4 years 5 months ago) and read 11133 times:

I know it's a longshot, but I'll ask anyway.
At about 2:12PM on the 17th (yesterday) driving north, in the distance my attention was drawn to a black cloud in an otherwise cloudless PHX sky. It was the same rear view of a departing smoky exhaust airplane that used to be commonplace. Think turbojet B-52 or KC-135 for a visual. From that distance, the plane at the front of the smoke column was a barely visible speck, flying north, well away from my location in Gilbert. The KC-135s at PHX are now newer re-engined versions, and frankly, I havent seen Pratt powered models make a cloud like that in many years as they still do touch and goes at nearby Williams-Gateway.

So did anyone see it or know what it was?

Not expecting an answer, but hoping anyway.


Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months ago) and read 11074 times:

Could have been an AA MD82/3

User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2690 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months ago) and read 11045 times:

It could of been from Luke AFB, couldn't it of? I looked on FlightAware, and saw nothing but 737s, and Airbuses around 2 PM from PHX.


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineArcrftLvr From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10837 times:



Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
I looked on FlightAware, and saw nothing but 737s, and Airbuses around 2 PM from PHX.

Unfortunately if you looked between 7:00am and 9:00pm, that's all you'd see anyway....


User currently offlineERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10671 times:

Not sure if this is it, but this guy is a regular smoker in PHX.


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Also, some of the NASCAR teams have 727's. I'd expect them to have left before Tuesday, but its possible.


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User currently offlineYVPHX From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

I think ERJ got it right. The Capital Cargo airplane is a very loud 722 and a huge smoker.

However it could also be the 722 airplane that the Phoenix Coyotes use as their charter. Its a possibility that it left at about the same time you suggest. I can't find any pictures in the database with it, but there is a huge Coyotes logo on the black tail of the plane.


User currently offlineTreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10407 times:



Quoting YVPHX (Reply 5):
However it could also be the 722 airplane that the Phoenix Coyotes use as their charter. Its a possibility that it left at about the same time you suggest. I can't find any pictures in the database with it, but there is a huge Coyotes logo on the black tail of the plane.

There is a picture of it on this web-page. The reg is N698SS
http://www.visitingphx.com/phxnews.html



Allons-y!
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2979 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10144 times:



Quoting YVPHX (Reply 5):
I think ERJ got it right. The Capital Cargo airplane is a very loud 722 and a huge smoker.

I see an all white 722 fly over my house most nights just before 7PM inbound from SAN, which does leave a bit of a trail in the sky. (At least when it was daylight out at 7PM) But the 11/17 flight was SO smoky. Just wish flightaware showed *all* flights, military, private, whatever...

The last time I saw smoke like that was a dawn group of about 5 old KC-135s taking off to the presunrise east back in Dec 2000. Probably saw that group's smoke halfway to Tucson.

Anyway, looks like there were some 722s here for Nascar per
http://www.visitingphx.com/charters.html
So maybe...



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2979 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10059 times:

Did some flightaware checking up. Looks like all of the Nascar 722s were gone by the 17th, and the Capital 722 leaves late at night; as I type this it is off to Toledo well after dark
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CCI711
Guess it was an older KC-135 visiting from somewhere, with more than typical smoke from its Pratts.
Odd that there is a good feeling in me from a cloud of smoke....



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineYVPHX From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10014 times:

About 2 years ago when I started my flight training at Falcon Field I mentioned to my Instructor how there was a "Black" contrail way up high in the sky. It was around 6pm and i thought there was an engine on fire. He suggested that it was most likely just the way the sun caught the contrail to turn it black instead of white.

This could be the situation here. It was just the perfect way the sun hit the exhaust that seemed to be a real smoker..

....or it was a UFO...

Theres a logical answer somewhere..and I'm sure someone here got it right.


User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9945 times:

I thought I had just read that last month, the last Pratt powered KC-135 was retired. I believe all KC-135 a/c are now CFM powered. I just do not recall where I read this...

User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9882 times:

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 10):
I thought I had just read that last month, the last Pratt powered KC-135 was retired. I believe all KC-135 a/c are now CFM powered. I just do not recall where I read this...

When I was at the FAA Academy in OKC last month the Oklahoma ANG had 4 older PW powered KC-135's there. If they retired them that sucks it was cool to still see and hear those old engines.

FX1816

[Edited 2009-11-18 22:07:24]

User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1294 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6673 times:



Quoting ERJ (Reply 4):
Not sure if this is it, but this guy is a regular smoker in PHX.



Quoting YVPHX (Reply 5):
I think ERJ got it right. The Capital Cargo airplane is a very loud 722 and a huge smoker.

I'd think that's probably it. That's our regular smoker here in ROC, too. CCI721 BDL-ROC-TOL-CVG at night, then reverse the routing for CCI722 in the morning. If you hear a roar around 11:15pm, you know that Cappy's heading out. Although we do get MD-88s and even a FX A300.

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2979 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Quoting YVPHX (Reply 5):
However it could also be the 722 airplane that the Phoenix Coyotes use as their charter. Its a possibility that it left at about the same time you suggest. I can't find any pictures in the database with it, but there is a huge Coyotes logo on the black tail of the plane.

Perhaps, Rabbit, perhaps.
They have that plane blocked on flightaware tho...

Edit: Looks like the Coyotes played at home on the 16th and at Minnesota on the 18th, so perhaps indeed. Still would expect a departure east over Mesa instead of straight north toward Flagstaff, but it's a contender.

[Edited 2009-11-19 08:31:22]


Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5196 times:



Quoting 413X3 (Reply 1):
Could have been an AA MD82/3

haha you serious? Since when do MD-80's draw attention to people from the amount of smoke they make? I live near Chicago and MD-80's are an every minute thing and I cant say I have ever seen a smoke trail from a fairly new MD80. No more or no less than any other current airliner as they all leave a very very minor trail during takeoff thats only usually seen when directly behind the aircraft.

The only planes that I know of that really throw out some smoke still are B52's. Other than that all the KC135's as far as I know have newer engines on them.

James


User currently offlineAirtanker From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5097 times:
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Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
When I was at the FAA Academy in OKC last month the Oklahoma ANG had 4 older PW powered KC-135's there. If they retired them that sucks it was cool to still see and hear those old engines.

Those were retired, parked and awaiting ferry flights to the bone yard.


User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5026 times:



Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 14):
Since when do MD-80's draw attention to people from the amount of smoke they make? I live near Chicago and MD-80's are an every minute thing and I cant say I have ever seen a smoke trail from a fairly new MD80.

ORD is not a hot and high airport like PHX is.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4856 times:



Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
So did anyone see it or know what it was?

What is Honeywell using as their testbed in PHX nowadays? They had a 707 up until recently but they sold it for scrap.

But I flew into PHX a month ago and remember seeing they had a plane parked in the same spot as where the 707 was. I just glanced at it and I wanna say it was a 707 and didnt think much of it, but at that time I had completely forgotten they had scrapped it.


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4700 times:



Quoting YVPHX (Reply 9):
....or it was a UFO...

Around PHX, that's a distinct possibilty.  Wow! Didn't know they were using anything other than quantum ion antigrav drive, however. Does that kind of propulsion make smoke?

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 16):
ORD is not a hot and high airport like PHX is.

Nor is Phoenix. 1100' elevation, and 75° in the early afternoon Thursday. Do the MD80s make a lot of noticeable black smoke at ORD, elev 660', on a typical June day?

-Rampart


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4149 times:



Quoting 4holer (Thread starter):
It was the same rear view of a departing smoky exhaust airplane that used to be commonplace. Think turbojet B-52 or KC-135 for a visual. From that distance, the plane at the front of the smoke column was a barely visible speck, flying north,

I have been noticing quite a few "modern" smokers up in Boston. See some examples here:

Spanish smoker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-lV6MMNy7I

Southern smoker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Jvdw_5gas

Northern smoker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3CXghw2SQ


User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2795 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3467 times:

If you really want to see smokers (and noise), try GLK - Geilenkirchen AWACS base in Germany. My parents in law live just under the approach path

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
When I was at the FAA Academy in OKC last month the Oklahoma ANG had 4 older PW powered KC-135's there. If they retired them that sucks it was cool to still see and hear those old engines.

You can still see and hear them in GLK (Geilenkirchen, Germany). The AWACs fleet based there still has the P&Ws. My parents in law live under the approach path, about 1.5km from the threshold.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineTreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3194 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 17):
What is Honeywell using as their testbed in PHX nowadays? They had a 707 up until recently but they sold it for scrap.

But I flew into PHX a month ago and remember seeing they had a plane parked in the same spot as where the 707 was. I just glanced at it and I wanna say it was a 707 and didnt think much of it, but at that time I had completely forgotten they had scrapped it.

They are using a RR powered B757 right now, the reg is N757HW and it replaced their old B720.


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Allons-y!
User currently offlineERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3154 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 17):

What is Honeywell using as their testbed in PHX nowadays?


That would be their new 757. Said to see the old bird scrapped, but this is one sharp looking 757


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Haven't seen the Coyotes' plane yet. Will have to keep an eye out.


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3142 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 18):
Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 16):
ORD is not a hot and high airport like PHX is.

Nor is Phoenix. 1100' elevation, and 75° in the early afternoon Thursday. Do the MD80s make a lot of noticeable black smoke at ORD, elev 660', on a typical June day?

While PHX is not high it sure as heck is hot, ever been there in the Summer?? Now I will grant that in Mid-November it's not at all hot nor hot enough to cause any issues.

Quoting Airtanker (Reply 15):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
When I was at the FAA Academy in OKC last month the Oklahoma ANG had 4 older PW powered KC-135's there. If they retired them that sucks it was cool to still see and hear those old engines.

Those were retired, parked and awaiting ferry flights to the bone yard.

Oh that sucks, so when I saw them last month they were most likely departing to DMA???

FX1816


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3058 times:



Quoting FX1816 (Reply 23):
While PHX is not high it sure as heck is hot, ever been there in the Summer?? Now I will grant that in Mid-November it's not at all hot nor hot enough to cause any issues.

 Yeah sure Yes. Lived there, 2 miles from the airport, for 8 years, including the day of their record annual temperature in which the airport was closed due to density altitude. And most people appreciate that it's hot in Phoenix... but it isn;'t hot every day! Most late Fall, Winter, and early Spring, temperature has minor impact on performance. The question pertained to a smoky aircraft seen last Thursday, in which the day's high temperature was in the 70's. Hence the premise that the day's temperature and airport elevation had something to do with the performance of an MD-80 was not well thought out.

-Rampart


25 FX1816 : Oh I know it's not hot there everyday as I am there quite often along with being in Bullhead City. I was just merely stating that fact but either way
26 CWAFlyer : The day you mention, PHX was technically not closed. The airplanes (mostly 737's for HP and WN) could not depart because the max operating temperatur
27 Rampart : Ah, yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for correcting. I'm not a pilot, I just play one on A.net. As I understand it, the max operating temperatures ha
28 Airtanker : They were just awaiting funding for the flights. Our unit had two there since '07 and they were among the very last tails to depart.
29 Post contains links Viscount724 : The last P&W-powered KC-135E tanker was retired September 23. Related USAF news items. http://www.tinker.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123169457 http://ww
30 Vegasplanes : Was an Omega Tanker 707 anywhere in the area, that would do it.
31 FX1816 : It has actually been in VCV since last week doing flight tests. They actually had an emergency and had to return to VCV last Thursday due to a hydrau
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