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OAG Changes 11/19/09:AA/AS/B6/DL/F9/NW/PD/UA/US/YX  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6575 times:

This compares what is for sale this week for the stated period versus what was for sale the prior week...NOT the prior year.

How to read:
AAA-BBB 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
AAA-BBB 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
AAA-BBB 4>6 MAY-JUN means the change is only for the stated period May to June

There was a lot to type, so please take it easy on any typos...

AA
DFW-LIT 8>11 APR- (was moving to mainline, now stays RJ)

AS
(Last week's drop of BOI-GEG was not reversed)
GEG-SMF 0>1 MAR-
GEG-SJC 0>1 MAR-
LAX-YVR 4>5 JUN-
SJC-SMF 1>2 MAR-

B6
BOS-CUN 1/WK>1 JAN-APR (I think this reverses a prior load)
BOS-FLL 6>7 JAN-APR
BOS-SDQ 1/WK>3/WK JAN-MAR
BOS-SJU 1>10/WK JAN-APR
BOS-TPA 3>4 MAR-APR
BUR-JFK 3>2 MAR-APR
JFK-FLL 9>10 FEB-APR
LAS-LGB 2>3 JAN-APR

DL
ATL-BOS 12>11 FEB-
ATL-FPO 1>5/WK FEB-MAR
ATL-LOS 5/WK>1 JUN-
ATL-SVO 5/WK>1 JUN-
ATL-TLV 1>6/WK APR-
BOS-DCA 8>7 FEB-
BOS-MCO 4>3 MAY-
JFK-ACC 4/WK>5/WK JUN-
JFK-AMM 4/WK>5/WK JUN-
JFK-CAI 4>5/WK APR-MAY
JFK-CAI 4/WK>1 JUN-
JFK-IAH 2>1 FEB-
JFK-MKE 1>0 FEB-
SLC-IDA 5>4 FEB-
SLC-JAC 5>4 FEB-

F9
DEN-SLC 7>8 JAN-

NW
DTW-DCA 9>8 FEB-
DTW-FLL 7>6 FEB-APR
DTW-FNT 6>7 FEB-
DTW-LAS 6>5 FEB-
DTW-TPA 7>6 FEB-APR
DTW-TVC 4>5 FEB-APR
MEM-MSN 1>2 FEB-
MSP-PHX 6>7 FEB-APR
MSP-RSW 4>3 APR
MSP-TUS 1>2 FEB-APR

PD
MYR-YTZ 0>2/WK FEB- (REALLY?)

UA
DEN-EGE 4>5 FEB-MAR
DEN-EGE 4>2 APR-JUN
EAU-CWA 0>1 MAR-
EAU-ORD 0>2 MAR-
ORD-MEX 0>1/WK MAY-
ORD-MKG 0>3 FEB-
ORD-PAH 0>2 FEB-

US
CLT-MLB 0>3 FEB-

YX
BOS-MCI 0>1 JAN-MAR (REVERSES LAST WEEK?)
BOS-MCI 1>2 APR-
MCI-RSW 1>1/WK JAN-FEB
MKE-PHX 2>1 APR-
MKE-RDU 0>2 APR-
MKE-SFO 0>1 APR-

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotfox From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6564 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-MKE 1>0 FEB-

Well, it lasted longer than I thought it would.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22995 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6516 times:



Quoting Pilotfox (Reply 1):
Well, it lasted longer than I thought it would.

Me too - I thought it was a route that smacked of Delta people picking a route to a NW market without really understanding the dynamics of the market. MKE leaks a ton of international passengers to ORD.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6266 times:



Quoting Pilotfox (Reply 1):
Well, it lasted longer than I thought it would.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Me too - I thought it was a route that smacked of Delta people picking a route to a NW market without really understanding the dynamics of the market. MKE leaks a ton of international passengers to ORD.

Or maybe with the YX alliance on MKE-LGA and the LGA hub that is coming, they felt they didn't need JFK too. I've been expecting a shift of DL domestic frequencies from JFK to LGA. This could foreshadow that.

I realize the JFK flight was intended to connect internationally, but wouldn't you just drive to ORD and fly non-stop to most places rather than suffer connecting at JFK?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22995 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6255 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
I realize the JFK flight was intended to connect internationally, but wouldn't you just drive to ORD and fly non-stop to most places rather than suffer connecting at JFK?

Yes - which is why I was perplexed by the move from the start.

People in Milwaukee drive to ORD to avoid connecting in Detroit when going to London or Paris. Surely, those people will drive (faster?) to ORD to avoid connecting at JFK when going to Madrid or Dublin.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1541 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6220 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
Or maybe with the YX alliance on MKE-LGA and the LGA hub that is coming, they felt they didn't need JFK too.

It definitely didn't have to do with YX. The way the YX/DL alliance is set up, YX puts their code on DL flights but DL doesn't put their code on YX flights. The whole alliance may end soon anyway because of the restrictions it puts on the YX/F9 codeshare.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6165 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 5):

It definitely didn't have to do with YX. The way the YX/DL alliance is set up, YX puts their code on DL flights but DL doesn't put their code on YX flights. The whole alliance may end soon anyway because of the restrictions it puts on the YX/F9 codeshare.

That's an interesting comment. Given the gigantic value they claimed it had, that would seem to be a major hit. Since DL/NW saw propping up YX as a way of keeping FL out of the "Heartland", I wonder what the severing of that alliance would do to the plans they have for keeping FL under their thumb. I wonder if DL/NW would return to MKE with a focus city for the 3rd (or is it 4th) time to mess with FL?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6159 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):
That's an interesting comment. Given the gigantic value they claimed it had, that would seem to be a major hit. Since DL/NW saw propping up YX as a way of keeping FL out of the "Heartland", I wonder what the severing of that alliance would do to the plans they have for keeping FL under their thumb. I wonder if DL/NW would return to MKE with a focus city for the 3rd (or is it 4th) time to mess with FL?

I don't know for a fact that the Delta/Midwest code share will sever.

But it puts shackles on the Frontier/Midwest code share, and so Delta will either have to come to terms with that - or it will go away.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6144 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
But it puts shackles on the Frontier/Midwest code share, and so Delta will either have to come to terms with that - or it will go away.

I suspect that code share will become a merger before long, so the issue will need to be resolved, but it was not me that posited that outcome.


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6144 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-RDU 0>2 APR-

3rd time's the charm...no way especially when you up gauge capacity....this route will have decent to weak load factors but will stay for the feed it provides for YX's hub at MKE...



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User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2911 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5698 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 7):
I don't know for a fact that the Delta/Midwest code share will sever.

But it puts shackles on the Frontier/Midwest code share, and so Delta will either have to come to terms with that - or it will go away.

Do you know if that's confirmed or public someplace? Or just speculation? From what I heard the F9 / YX code share has not advanced to more markets because there are other much higher priorities to direct resources to right now. I don't have a public source on that, though, but it does make some sense given what's all going on. The code-share wheels were in motion well before the purchase by Republic, but obviously now things are a little different.

As for this being back burner because F9 and YX are going to become a single airline anyway, when a merger is planned there is usually a period of cross-system code sharing first until the one code is fully retired, such as between NW and DL.

With the joined FF agreements and both airlines flying the DEN-MKE segment, expansion of the code share isn't quite as necessary as it might have been before. DEN travelers can still fly to BOS via Milwaukee all on a YX ticket and still get their FF miles, MKE travelers can still fly to PDX via Denver all on a F9 ticket and still get their FF miles. Not having the code-share in place may mean one or two less frequencies available becuase there's no MKE-DEN on Midwest and DEN-PDX on Frontier option. But both hubs are banked, and it's already the Frontier flghts on MKE-DEN (not the Midwest ones) which are timed to connect best to the DEN-PDX connections, for example.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

Not to take this off topic, but why is Allegiant not listed in the OAG books?


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5099 times:
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Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 10):
Do you know if that's confirmed or public someplace? Or just speculation?

I don't have a source for it that I would publish.

It was explained to me from the git-go that Delta smiled favorably on the mountain destinations/Lynx and would allow the Frontier/Midwest codeshare on most cities to the east of MKE - but not on most cities to the west of MKE, and, obviously, not MCI. I don't know why BOS was specifically excluded from the eastern cities.

I don't know whether there is a time limit on it, but I am guessing not because I have heard it is a matter of some frustration, that they are "discussing it" and that it will be changed, one way or another.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4505 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 9):
3rd time's the charm...no way especially when you up gauge capacity....this route will have decent to weak load factors but will stay for the feed it provides for YX's hub at MKE...

Agreed. This has failed too many times before.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Not to take this off topic, but why is Allegiant not listed in the OAG books?

I have seen their schedules from time to time as they have changed their policies, but the purpose of OAG is to send schedules to places like Expedia and travel agents CRS. They don't sell their product that way, so there is little point. If they change their model, which has been rumored, they might come back to OAG.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):

It was explained to me from the git-go that Delta smiled favorably on the mountain destinations/Lynx

I would be certain the issue is that while YX serves DL's purpose by fighting FL which they hate, DEN simply competes with SLC without offering any countervailing benefit. Thus, I agree that they probably aren't interested. Why UA works with them while they compete in DEN is still baffling to me. There has to be a lot more to that story.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 13):
I would be certain the issue is that while YX serves DL's purpose by fighting FL which they hate, DEN simply competes with SLC without offering any countervailing benefit.

Yes. As an educated guess, I would think that is exactly the motivation for it.

MKE-BOS puzzles me slightly - it doesn't seem to fit into the pattern.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4920 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4191 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
PD
MYR-YTZ 0>2/WK FEB- (REALLY?)

Yes. Thursday and Sunday service. Currently due to end May 30th

http://www.flyporter.com/en/press2009.aspx?id=101



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3901 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MEM-MSN 1>2 FEB-

Interesting move. The current MSN-MEM flight (flown on a CRJ-200 by 9E) is almost always full.* It'll be interesting to see how this one fairs, and also what effect it may have on drawing southbound connecting traffic away from the MSP & DTW flights.

Personally, I'm surprised the current flight hasn't been upgraded to either a CRJ-900 or E75. Also surprised that no restoration to ATL service previously flown by OH is in the offing


* Yeah yeah yeah, LF =/= yield...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineLive2fly83 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 3739 times:

didnt B6 and US commmit to BOS and MLB respectively recently??

thanks for all the great info Enliria



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