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Boeing Breaks Ground On Second 787 Line  
User currently offlineAviationbuff From India, joined Mar 2008, 1425 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11736 times:

Boeing breaks ground on second 787 line

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...aks-ground-on-second-787-line.html

Quote:
Boeing broke ground in North Charleston, South Carolina for the second 787 final assembly line today, marking the first all-new commercial jetliner assembly plant in the US since then-Lockheed built its L-1011 final assembly line in Palmdale, California in 1968.



The line will be operational in July 2011.
To produce its first 787 in the first quarter of 2012.
Three 787s per month to be produced in South Carolina.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11553 times:
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Quoting Aviationbuff (Thread starter):
Boeing breaks ground on second 787 line

Great news for the people of South Carolina!
Jobs,Jobs,Jobs!

Great news for Boeing as well.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

I'm glad for any jobs in the USA, esp high paying. Way to go SC!

That said, is this line for 787s only? Any chance that they'll expand it to make other birds?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11441 times:

This is awesome! I just moved from Columbia, SC (hence the user name) to Charleston. I already see lots of military transports and the occasional Dreamlifter on climbout and approach to CHS. To see 787s on test flights will be simply amazing. Now to find a good spotting area around here.  Smile

The new FAL being built here has garnered lots of press. Hopefully it stimulates the economy around here for many years.



A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11416 times:
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Good news for the B787 program. If all the flight test are done, they can deliver the planes a.s.a.p. to the waiting customers. Their patience has been severely tested. Now let's hope that the ramp-up of the production goes smooth as well.

Quoting Aviationbuff (Thread starter):
marking the first all-new commercial jetliner assembly plant in the US since then-Lockheed built its L-1011 final assembly line in Palmdale, California in 1968.

Funny thing is that if the KC-X deal with NG/EADS had gone through, this "honor" would have gone to Alabama.  Wink


User currently offlineFcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10863 times:

It seems to show how confident Boeing are about the future success of the aircraft - they must think it will fly, unlike some on this forum.....

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8944 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8743 times:

As if Charleston isn't by itself a nice little City to visit, now I have one more reason to go back.

Can't wait!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

I think the discussion about the second FAL overshadows the fact that the bottleneck is in pre-assembly, i.e. the mating of the mid and aft body sections and systems installation.

Global Aeronautica just said that they have improved flow time from 300 days to 230 days for mid-body sections. Right now they have two integration lines with five positions each. That means they can theoretically deliver one mid body section every 23 days. If they want to go to one section every 3 days, they either have to get the flow time down to 30 days or increase the number of integration lines. They just announced a third line, but I expect to see some more being established in the frame of the Charleston site expansion.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 2):
That said, is this line for 787s only? Any chance that they'll expand it to make other birds?

In case the added capacity would become surplus after the backog of 800+ has been burned down around 2018, the new FAL and pre-FAL could be switched to another product that is assembled in similar fashion. 777RS comes to mind...


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4777 times:



Quoting Fcogafa (Reply 5):
It seems to show how confident Boeing are about the future success of the aircraft - they must think it will fly, unlike some on this forum.....

Of course it will fly! The question has and still is - When will it fly? And more importantly - When will it fly in the hands of the airlines?

The commitment to opening up a second line doesn't answer either of those questions, except that Boeing expects the plane to be in service by Q1 2012.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4771 times:
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With the SC FAL (at least for the moment) dedicated to only 787-8 production while the WA FAL will do both 787-8 and 787-9 production and the expectation that additional orders will be forthcoming, I imagine the SC FAL will see a production rate increase down the road, but if it does not, it should remain busy through the next decade.

For now, the combined production rate of both FALs is 10 aircraft per month which is the same number of shipsets the subs are currently sized to deliver, so any additional rate increases at SC will require a concurrent shipset increase in the subs. However, with SC not expected to start production until Q1 2012 and likely a year or more staying at the planned rate of three 787s per month, the subs and Boeing have many years to plan for and execute a shipset increase if they feel it warranted.

[Edited 2009-11-22 06:32:59]

User currently offlineIAHcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3410 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4563 times:
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Dumb question.. How are line numbers going to be assigned between the two FAL's ? Even/Odd ? or will SC aircraft be numbered separately ?  Confused


Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4478 times:



Quoting IAHcsr (Reply 10):
Dumb question.. How are line numbers going to be assigned between the two FAL's ? Even/Odd ? or will SC aircraft be numbered separately ?

Good question. I have no idea, but I will take a guess - I assume they will just number them in the order that they join the line regardless of location. (Seems the simpliest approach to me)


User currently offlineRheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2213 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3888 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
For now, the combined production rate of both FALs is 10 aircraft per month

How does this add up with this?:

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 7):
Global Aeronautica just said that they have improved flow time from 300 days to 230 days for mid-body sections. Right now they have two integration lines with five positions each. That means they can theoretically deliver one mid body section every 23 days. If they want to go to one section every 3 days, they either have to get the flow time down to 30 days or increase the number of integration lines. They just announced a third line

What worth do FAL's have if the supply of the components cannot keep the pace?

A very small percentage of the complete workload for one aircraft is spent at the FAL. Just imagine: Boeing plans to assemble one aircraft within days on the FAL! That means that the largest portion of work happens somewhere else. In other words: scaling up 787 production is primarily not a FAL issue but a "everything-else" issue.

The Airbus report raised some very discouraging concerns that root in the inability of suppliers to speed up production. In fact it sounded like they would fail dreadfully just to cope with the demand required to feed one FAL.

But I assume that Boeing intends to adress these weak points. Otherwise the second FAL would be pointless. I only say that the largest and most costly activities need to happen at the suppliers and not in Charleston, SC.


User currently offlineDynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 868 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3857 times:



Quoting Rheinwaldner (Reply 26):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
For now, the combined production rate of both FALs is 10 aircraft per month

How does this add up with this?:

10/month is not meant to be hit for another 4 (!) years. Presumably, like our site, they have had to prove to Boeing that they can improve the flow time on their components sufficiently to be able to meet that.

Note that due to delays to the program the "pull" of components from upstream (the FAL) has reduced the requirement for them to be built at a high rate. A contributer to the flow time could be that they have reduced their rate down to the level of demand from Boeing and they may well be able to complete things quicker.

I would not be surprised if they had reduced their rate down to the minimum level which would be sustainable. There's no point spending money to do the work only to have to find somewhere to store it and have money tied up in that work. They're up to assembling LN 14 or thereabouts now, so over the past 2.5 years only 16 or so mid body sections have been delivered.


User currently offlineDynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 868 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3734 times:



Quoting Rheinwaldner (Reply 12):
The Airbus report raised some very discouraging concerns that root in the inability of suppliers to speed up production. In fact it sounded like they would fail dreadfully just to cope with the demand required to feed one FAL.

But I assume that Boeing intends to adress these weak points. Otherwise the second FAL would be pointless. I only say that the largest and most costly activities need to happen at the suppliers and not in Charleston, SC.

Some of my earlier points about this just got deleted when the thread was cleaned up by the mods.

At this stage the point of the 2nd assembly line is not to increase final assembly capacity but to make up for the lower than planned for capacity of the 1st FAL. That one FAL was meant to be able to do what they later realised they need two FALs for.

You're right that the hard part will be getting suppliers up to rate, but they have much longer than initially planned to get there. They also had an unintended chance to evaluate and improve their processes because of the delays - we had started ramping up before we had to drop back again.

For now they still only have to meet the originally planned rate of 10/month. Even so, meeting the planned rate will be tough for some.

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 7):
Right now they have two integration lines with five positions each. That means they can theoretically deliver one mid body section every 23 days. If they want to go to one section every 3 days, they either have to get the flow time down to 30 days or increase the number of integration lines. They just announced a third line

It would be interesting to know whether they planned 2 lines total, or whether the additional line was planned all along. At our site we're staging our capital expenditure rather than spending it all up front and having it sit underutilised during the initial ramp up.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3733 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

I realize that some members feel that discussions regarding the IAM and its part in the second 787 assembly line being allocated to SC is integral to this thread. That being said, the union topic has been well covered in previous threads. We would therefore like to request that this thread stays clean from pro-and anti union rhetoric, as it inevitably leads to off-topic comments and a subsequent derailing of the entire thread.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Rgds,

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3608 times:



Quoting Dynamicsguy (Reply 14):
It would be interesting to know whether they planned 2 lines total, or whether the additional line was planned all along. At our site we're staging our capital expenditure rather than spending it all up front and having it sit underutilised during the initial ramp up.

The current mid-body pre-assembly facility has two lines, but as you guess correctly there is room for one, may be two more lines within the existing building.


User currently offlineBrendows From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3476 times:



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 16):

The current mid-body pre-assembly facility has two lines, but as you guess correctly there is room for one, may be two more lines within the existing building.

There is room for two more lines. This can be seen on pictures Jon Ostrower took of the facility in 2007, and on the pictures of GA's facility that Vought had on their website before Boeing bought them out. This room has been used (by the looks of it) to store the frames that's used to carry/transport the sections within the facility.

I'd be more worried about the possibilities for future expansion within the walls of what was Vought's facility in Charleston.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30654 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
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Quoting Brendows (Reply 17):
I'd be more worried about the possibilities for future expansion within the walls of what was Vought's facility in Charleston.

Boeing could expand it while they build the FAL building.


User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3167 times:



Quoting Caetravlr (Reply 3):
To see 787s on test flights will be simply amazing. Now to find a good spotting area around here.

- I trust you will be taking pictures?

Quoting Caetravlr (Reply 3):
The new FAL being built here has garnered lots of press.

- I have read several Internet news articles on this announcement. I was wondering where on the field at CHS is this facility going to be located?

Here:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0912/00076AD.PDF

David



Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3151 times:



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19):
- I have read several Internet news articles on this announcement. I was wondering where on the field at CHS is this facility going to be located?

Just to the right of where it says "ACFT PLANT." Jon Ostrower has an excellent aerial view rendering of the plant on his website, http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger

Quoting Caetravlr (Reply 3):
This is awesome! I just moved from Columbia, SC (hence the user name) to Charleston. I already see lots of military transports and the occasional Dreamlifter on climbout and approach to CHS. To see 787s on test flights will be simply amazing. Now to find a good spotting area around here.

Aviation Blvd seems to be (in the future) the best place to spot from. The gate guards haven't seemed to mind too much me snapping pictures of the Dreamlifters off of Terminal Blvd, so hopefully they'll be friendly when they clear out the other side too.

Man, CHS is going to be paradise. C-17s doing tactical approaches/landings, military charters, Dreamlifters, and now brand new 787s...followed by Magnolia's for dinner or maybe Bowen's Island for some good seafood... cloudnine 



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3095 times:



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19):
I trust you will be taking pictures?

I'm more of a gazer than a photographer. However, with 787s around I might have to take up a new hobby.  Smile

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 20):
Aviation Blvd seems to be (in the future) the best place to spot from. The gate guards haven't seemed to mind too much me snapping pictures of the Dreamlifters off of Terminal Blvd, so hopefully they'll be friendly when they clear out the other side too

Thanks JBirdAV8r. I think I need to head down that way and explore a bit. Is there any way of knowing when the Dreamlifter will be in town?



A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

This was reported heavily in the local Seattle news. Many people I know were surprised that Boeing was able to get the permits required to start construction so fast. Given the regulatory climate in Washington state it would have taken several millions more $'s just to gain entitlements (permits) and much more time than SC.

Why should WA be surprised Boeing decided to start the second line in SC? Look at this outside the labor issue and even the cost of permitting a building and clearing the land is many multiples higher in WA than it is in SC. Good for SC, WA needs to be a more business friendly state.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2882 times:



Quoting Caetravlr (Reply 21):
Thanks JBirdAV8r. I think I need to head down that way and explore a bit. Is there any way of knowing when the Dreamlifter will be in town?

Sure.

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KCHS

There's a more precise way to do it, I'm sure (I think the flight numbers are usually the same) but I just look for EIA (Evergreen) flights listed as operated either by B744 or BLCF. There's usually always been at least one on the ramp when I've driven out that way, though.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
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