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User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Posted (5 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5776 times:

As many of you Delta fans have seen, my site is currently down.

The reason this time? Delta.

The lawyers in Atlanta finally decided that I was breaking copyright law by using their logo. I believe, however, that I was using the logo under fair use. I'm no lawyer, but I do know that the fair use laws are very sketchy and there are no exact rules. Anyone with experience in this please feel free to chime in.

Until the site is back up and running (which should be within a day or two depending on how fast the hosting company takes) I will use this thread to post any site related info that would normally be on Widgetheads.

I apologize to everyone for the inconvenience.

Mods: If this is in the wrong forum, my apologizes. Doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

If you just used a photograph of a DL a/c with the new livery, wouldn't that be ok? The photos are part of the public domain, are they not?

Doesn't legal in the ATL GO have anything better to do? After all, it's not like you used the site to disparage DL or anything like that.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineTimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 971 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5747 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I hope you are able to work out the issues with them. The design of the site was excellent and I was impressed with how you were able to fit everything within the official Delta style guidelines. It did make it look like an official Delta site (despite the disclaimers that it was not), and I could see that causing an issue without prior approval.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5711 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 1):
Doesn't legal in the ATL GO have anything better to do? After all, it's not like you used the site to disparage DL or anything like that.

It is in some ways, a bullying tactic. Most individuals do not have the time and money to fight a major corporation and the corporation expects the person to not fight back. In most cases, these individuals don't know who to turn to, and as a result, give up something they may have spend countless hours putting together for nothing.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5694 times:

Seems a bit harsh to me. Whilst Delta have to protect their brand if no laws were broken and it was just a enthusiasts website then Delta should be honoured that it was done by loyal Delta fans.

Maybe the members and people who support them should start a petition and write letters into head office. The more the better.


User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5689 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
It is in some ways, a bullying tactic. Most individuals do not have the time and money to fight a major corporation and the corporation expects the person to not fight back. In most cases, these individuals don't know who to turn to, and as a result, give up something they may have spend countless hours putting together for nothing.

And in this case, rather short sighted. The site was actually quite a promotion for DL, advertising some of the new features they're adding to their aircraft.


User currently offlineQB737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Logos are intellectual property and like any other property you need to seek permission from the owner to use it. Delta Air Lines owns all the rights to their logos and only them can dictate how they are used. I have 3 questions for you
1-Did you ask permission to use the logo?
2-Were you collecting revenue from advertisement on your site?
3-Were you collecting any membership fees?
If you answer “no” to the first one and “yes” to number 2 and/or 3, this give them ground for their action. I would be also pissed If someone was using my intellectual property without asking me first.

Just my 2 cents.


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5622 times:



Quoting QB737 (Reply 6):
1-Did you ask permission to use the logo?
2-Were you collecting revenue from advertisement on your site?
3-Were you collecting any membership fees?

No to all three. While I do admit I never asked permission, the site is completely non-profit, and no fees of any kind are collected. Not for advertisement or membership fees. I also never used the logo to represent anything other then Delta themselves, and only in a positive way.


User currently offlineQB737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Then my guess is they saw the unauthorized use of the logos as a liability. Maybe their lawyers saw a “potential” problem and advise Delta to take actions.

User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

My suggestion to Delta would be to fry bigger fish next time instead of going after a site that is a huge promoter of them. It's kinda like biting the hand that feeds you.

Hope you get this resolved quickly. It's doing nobody any good.


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

Well it's clear the the size of the site got to them. I've been using the logo for several months and haven't heard a peep from them. However, if I had contacted them early on when the project began, do you think I would have heard back from them? A friend of mine tried sending 4 emails about using their logo in a small project of his. Never heard back from them. It's a catch-22 really.

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 5425 times:



Quoting QB737 (Reply 8):
Then my guess is they saw the unauthorized use of the logos as a liability. Maybe their lawyers saw a “potential” problem and advise Delta to take actions.

Possibly, but there were disclaimers involved, too. Seems like legal looked at the website header and failed to check out the entire site.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Okay, site is back up sans all Delta Air Lines logos. Does anyone else think it looks a bit bland?

User currently offlineQB737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5315 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 11):
Possibly, but there were disclaimers involved, too. Seems like legal looked at the website header and failed to check out the entire site.

There are legal disclaimers on the use of intellectual property that our friend might have overlooked as well; one of them is seeking permission for the use of their logo. To make things clear, to the eyes of the law, using one’s intellectual property without their consent is theft. So, our friend should consider himself lucky that they only decided to shut down his site.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 9):
My suggestion to Delta would be to fry bigger fish next time instead of going after a site that is a huge promoter of them. It's kinda like biting the hand that feeds you.

Which one is bigger, one ten pound fish or 15 one pounders?

To our friend Pilotboi. I'm not here to doubt you, I'm sure you only had good intentions as like all of us, you're an airplanes enthusiast and your website was all about the good stuff in Delta Air Lines. Corporations and lawyers on the other hand, are a different breed. One is there to keep the share holders happy by making profit and limiting expanses and the other to see all of potential liabilities in anything. I hope your site is back online soon. I never had the chance to visit as I was not aware of it but I’ll keep an eye open for it’s re-opening.
Cheers!


User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1189 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

Maybe its not you or your site specifically. Maybe the lawyers "had" to
speak up because down the line someone could use the same logo's
on a website and unlike you, disparage Delta in some way? Then if Delta
were to go after them, they could use your web site as precedent. Does
that make sense? We live in a Country were people are afraid of Saying
Merry Christmas because they might get sued. A shame really.
or maybe Delta was upset that you list the 763-ER's as seating 185 in Y/C ?
just kidding. I hope this gets worked out soon. You have done a great
job with this web site.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Your main problem is no, logos are not all fair use, its the way you use them, the biggest problem was you were using their logo like they put in many of their ad's and some of their trademarked, copywrited slogans such as "change is" etc. The website was great but I had always had a feeling that the logo and where it sat at the bottom was going to cause issues.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5141 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Glad to see it's back. Shame on Delta! Amazing that they would kick up a storm about that when sites like Untied are having no issues with this one




When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5116 times:



Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 16):
Glad to see it's back. Shame on Delta! Amazing that they would kick up a storm about that when sites like Untied are having no issues with this one

The difference is, nobody would think its an official site from United.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 11):

Possibly, but there were disclaimers involved, too. Seems like legal looked at the website header and failed to check out the entire site.

Unfortunately you can have all the disclaimers you want, it doensn't mean you can use the stuff. Basically you have to think like an idiot when it comes to this part of the law and copyright violations, if anyone could think that it is an official site of Delta than it is illegal if the company that it is portraying doesn't give permission.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5104 times:

With the site being back up, there really is not a need for this thread to continue. Due to a lag in the software, some posts may appear after the thread is locked. Any posts that appear after the thread is locked will be deleted per site policy.

[Edited 2009-11-21 13:29:40 by srbmod]

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