Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9578 times:
DL will offer 101 weekly flights into AMS in the Summer 2010 schedule from 9 different destinations (DTW, MSP, SEA, PDX, MEM, BOS, ATL, JFK and BOM). DTW-AMS will operate 4 daily flights while MSP-AMS 3 daily flights.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8629 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9559 times:
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4125 posts, RR: 37 Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9530 times:
Is it more or less then NW+DL together flew on Amsterdam say 3, 2 and 1 years ago? Then we can draw conclusions if Amsterdam will develop or be frozen as 'hub'
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Correct, I forgot EWR-AMS which will operate daily B767. Total weekly flights increased to 108!
Quoting BartBus (Reply 1): Which of those routes are also served by KL?
KL operates its own route network to the US complementing DL. KL operates routes such as AMS-SFO, AMS-LAX, AMS-JFK (2 day), AMS-IAH (2 day), AMS-ATL, AMS-IAD, AMS-DFW.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8629 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9484 times:
ATL and JFK are the only routes in which KLM and DL will operate simultaneously. KLM is out of DTW-AMS (all 4 daily flights are operated by DL), while DL is out of IAD-AMS (which will be operate by KLM only).
ATL-AMS will have 2 daily flights, 1 KLM A332 and 1 DL A332, while JFK-AMS will have 3 daily flights, 2 KLM B747/B772 and 1 DL B767.
AMS-IAH B73H daily is a Privatair all-business class flight operated on behalf of KLM. In addition to the Privatair flight KL also operates a daily AMS-IAH B747.
Simairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 829 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9170 times:
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4): Is it more or less then NW+DL together flew on Amsterdam say 3, 2 and 1 years ago? Then we can draw conclusions if Amsterdam will develop or be frozen as 'hub'
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4595 posts, RR: 25 Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9040 times:
The utilization of the A332s will likely still go through some changes though there may or may not be an impact on AMS. The way the current schedules are loaded, they have too many A332 flights scheduled for the 11 aircraft they currently have; remember the A332s also do transpacific and intra-Asia runs such as NRT-SFO/SLC/PEK/PVG/BKK/SIN; they could conceivably switch some of the intra-Asia flights to the 767 or maybe one or two AMS to the 767s or A333s as well....
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8976 times:
Quoting Panamair (Reply 15): The utilization of the A332s will likely still go through some changes though there may or may not be an impact on AMS. The way the current schedules are loaded, they have too many A332 flights scheduled for the 11 aircraft they currently have; remember the A332s also do transpacific and intra-Asia runs such as NRT-SFO/SLC/PEK/PVG/BKK/SIN; they could conceivably switch some of the intra-Asia flights to the 767 or maybe one or two AMS to the 767s or A333s as well....
I agree we still could see some aircraft utilisation change especially some A332 flights replaced with B767 or A333s.
I wonder why DL does not deploy the B747 in AMS in routes such as DTW-AMS which could easily manage even the A380!
It is also interesting that SEA-AMS will be upgraded from daily A333 to 7 x A332 + 3 B767.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3024 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8909 times:
Overall I am pleased to see DL/NW's commitment to AMS; AMS is a far superior connecting experience to CDG, but I was worried that AMS could take a backseat to CDG after the merger.
Quoting Panamair (Reply 15): The utilization of the A332s will likely still go through some changes though there may or may not be an impact on AMS. The way the current schedules are loaded, they have too many A332 flights scheduled for the 11 aircraft they currently have; remember the A332s also do transpacific and intra-Asia runs such as NRT-SFO/SLC/PEK/PVG/BKK/SIN; they could conceivably switch some of the intra-Asia flights to the 767 or maybe one or two AMS to the 767s or A333s as well....
SEA-NRT shows going back to a 332 next summer too (currently a 333). I suppose a bit of a downgauge makes some sense given the new service to KIX and PEK. But then again, who knows given the constantly changing schedules.
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 16): It is also interesting that SEA-AMS will be upgraded from daily A333 to 7 x A332 + 3 B767.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6032 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8728 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19): 4x daily DTW-AMS?! Wow....How many was NW operating pre-merger?
Burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7421 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8698 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19): 4x daily DTW-AMS?! Wow....How many was NW operating pre-merger?
5x a lot of the summers.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
Hohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8568 times:
Interesting facts are: KL is not reducing IAH inspite of CO joining Star Alliance.
CO will continue to have 1 daily IAH-AMS on a 777.
Also the BOM-AMS flight was continuing to EWR and originating from EWR on the return. I wonder where it will continue for now. The US - India bilateral treaty requires flights to continue to US (from India) without a plane change for the US and India carriers and vice versa.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8415 times:
Quoting Hohd (Reply 22): KL is not reducing IAH inspite of CO joining Star Alliance.
Quoting Hohd (Reply 22): CO will continue to have 1 daily IAH-AMS on a 777.
This because AMS-IAH is an oil route (a lot of oil-related companies are based in The Netherlands including the HQ of Shell).
Quoting Hohd (Reply 22): Also the BOM-AMS flight was continuing to EWR and originating from EWR on the return. I wonder where it will continue for now. The US - India bilateral treaty requires flights to continue to US (from India) without a plane change for the US and India carriers and vice versa.
Hjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8272 times:
So does that mean that BOM can be considered a new INTL destination from DTW? That would be quite an expansion from Q32009 to Q32010. Anyways, is it 5X DTW-AMS or 4X daily next summer?
LH 442
25 Hardiwv: 4 x day all by DL. DTW-AMS-BOM A332 daily. Rgs,
26 Viscount724: Suggest include comparison with combined NW/KL schedule for Summer 2009 to see what's changed.
27 AmtrakGuy: Am I correct anyone flying in on DL/NW and KLM can transfer to DL's BOM bound plane in AMS? I'm surprise it's A332 -- I thought the market is huge and
28 JRadier: a 737-700 is a 73G (7th letter in the alphabet), a -700WL is indeed a 73W. The 73H is an -800WL however...
29 Jr: Yes, I would assume that to still be possible. I have done it twice - originating on KL's DFW flight each time and transfering on to the NW/DL A332 o
30 Af773atmsp: Hasn't MSP-AMS usually been 3x daily or did NW drop one of the daily flights?
31 BMI727: Not to be nitpicky, but that sort of thing depends partly on the airline. All Southwest 737-700s, for example, are listed in OAG as 73G whether they
32 FL787: For the past few years, MSP-AMS has been 3 daily in the summer and 2 daily in the winter so nothing has really changed.
33 Viscount724: NW has always had 5th freedom rights AMS-BOM. They can carry all types of traffic including purely local AMS-BOM passengers.
35 Cgnnrw: Any chances either DL or KL will start AMS-PHL? NW did the route with a DC-10 in the mid-90's, quite convienent. DL took over the CDG-PHL service from
36 Panamair: PDX-AMS was a daily 767 summer 2009 ATL-AMS was a daily A333 summer 2009 JFK-AMS was a daily NW 757 summer 2009[Edited 2009-11-24 04:28:10 by panamai
37 CokePopper: I believe Delta had its own equipment on this route this past summer 763 Nov 9 switched to KLM only
38 Panamair: IIRC, the DL80/81 763 service between JFK and AMS didn't operate this past summer (ended around March 2009 and was restarted in September 2009. It wa
39 PHXtoDCAtoMSP: No offense.....but there are lots of mistakes in your comparisons. Here is what I have: Summer 2010 ATL: 7x A330-200 BOM: 7x A330-200 BOS: 7x A330-300
40 Hardiwv: What is the actual difference of your list and my list? Only MEM which in my list shows A332 while you state that it will be B767 although not loaded
41 SQ325: When did they drop the B752 service to BDL?
42 Affirmative: What about MIA? Doesn't MP operate a 763ER to MIA for KL or did they cut it.. Considering the prices I always used to get the loads must have been pre
43 Hardiwv: MP axed MIA in favour of AMS-MCO. There are speculations on a possible DL operated MIA-AMS in future. Probably MIA is the most significant US destina
44 Hjulicher: If this route is being run on an A332, why isn't it reflected in the DTW-AMS service? All flights seem to be operated by an A333. Will there be a 5th
45 MAH4546: We will likely be seeing DL/KL group flying MIA-AMS in the near future. It was supposed to happen this winter, though given the economy, no surprise
46 DeltaL1011man: 73Y=737-800 with out PTVs(has drop down LCDs) 73H= 737-800 with PTVs. All of Delta's 737s are getting winglets. Would this route be better for a 763
47 PHXtoDCAtoMSP: I was referring more to your comparisons vs Summer 2009. Your Summer 2009 schedule had a lot of errors. I am pretty sure that mine is accurate to the
48 Affirmative: Does it have anything to do with AAs stronghold in MIA or was the loads only good seasonally? I've heard that AF flies with high loads pretty much al
49 MAH4546: Two factors: 1) Lufthansa and Air Berlin from DUS stole traffic. 2) It was a low-quality, all-coach product in a market with a lot of competition and
50 Hardiwv: It is not reflected because DL uses another aircraft coming from another destination (A332). For schedule purpose the flight is DTW-AMS-BOM but the a
51 JRadier: I guess that is a typo for CDG-MIA. Would love to regularly see an AF 744 here
52 Hardiwv: Typo CDG-MIA Another typo, I meant MIA-AMS is a big hole in US-AMS traffic. Rgs,
53 MAH4546: That doesn't make it not a hole. The lack of service between MIA and AMS is a major hole in the KLM network that will likely be filled soon.
55 Flighty: Wow. DTW gets 4x daily and ATL gets 1x daily. That's something. It really suggests DTW is the superior Europe (and Asia) connect hub. Or, what am I m
56 DeltaL1011man: read below DL runs ATL-AMS,ATH,BCN,BRU,CPH,DUB,DUS,FRA,FCO,LGW,LHR,MAD,MAN,MXP,SVO,MUC,PRG,CDG, STR,VCE and ZRH vs. DTW-AMS,LHR,FRA,FCO DL/AF run 3x
57 Affirmative: Well.. Why not let KL operate it with a MD-11 or A332? There's really no reason why Delta should do it all by themselves. But they do need to fill th
58 Hjulicher: ATL has way more TATL flights than DTW, and it will stay that way. The market is better positioned there, not to mention that 3x as much feed goes int
59 United787: For comparison, how many DL flights will there be to CDG next summer? Also, how many AF flights will there be to the US next summer?
60 Luckyone: And let's face it Hartsfield is jammed to the gills already. They'd be nuts to try and funnel Delta's existing flow AND NW's flow through there. Dear
61 Hardiwv: ATL-CDG 14 B767 CVG-CDG 7 B767 MSP-CDG 7 B767 PHL-CDG 7 B752 PIT-CDG 5 B752 SLC-CDG 7 B767 DL will operate 57 weekly flights to CDG in comparison to
62 Panamair: ....although you should really look at all of this in the totality of the DL-AF-KL JV since it's metal-neutral across all three carriers. In that res
63 DeltaL1011man: I'm a little shocked its so AMS heavy. I really thought we would see 1 maybe even 2 AMS flights moved to CDG.
64 Jfk777: KLM flew it before the Air France merger, Matinair flew it years. To some cities AF/KLM have a strategy only one of teh two will fly there. Like Lima
65 Hardiwv: As I mentioned above, at the time of the AF/KL merger routes which had both carriers were evaluated and some destinations remained only with one carr
66 DeltaL1011man: very true. CDG can be pure hell. Also very true.
67 Viscount724: But better than LHR. I connected at CDG two weeks ago on a GVA-YYZ-GVA trip on AF and it went smoothly both ways, except for a long and slow-moving l
68 Goldorak: I agree on the hub comments but your conclusion about pax number is false. You cannot say that based on the solely numbers of flights operated by DL
69 Hardiwv: I think nobody disputes that AMS, ZRH, MUC and CPH are the best hubs in Europe. I have only concluded that DL operates 55 weekly flights in CDG while
70 Luckyone: Just a thought, but since Air France has the "premium product", do they handle the higher-yielding Parisian traffic while Delta handles the RELATIVELY
71 Viscount724: I wouldn't include CPH in that group. CPH doesn't have enough longhaul service, and the location isn't the best to make it an ideal connecting hub.
72 Hardiwv: You are correct in this point, but CPH is still SAS hub although you cannot compare it to AMS and ZRH. As I said above, the main explantion for DL op
Sponsor Message: 
From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Jul 2009, 40 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4903 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8629 posts, 
From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 889 posts, 
From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
