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Swiss/bmi Relaunch LHR-GVA, 6x Daily  
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 35
Posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9170 times:

http://www.swiss.com/web/EN/about_sw...ss_releases/Pages/pr_20091123.aspx

Relaunches January 10 2010, 6x daily. GVA-LCY goes from 6x daily to 4x daily.

All flights to be marketed as LX flights, although 3 will be operated by BD.

Schedules:

ex-GVA

LX352 GVA 0730 - LHR 0815 319
LX(BD)350 GVA 1015 - LHR 1055 320
LX354 GVA 1250 - LHR 1340 319
LX(BD)348 GVA 1515 - LHR 1600 320
LX356 GVA 1745 - LHR 1830 319
LX(BD)358 GVA 2000 - LHR 2040 320

ex-LHR

LX(BD)359 LHR 0700 - GVA 0935 320
LX353 LHR 0855 - GVA 1140 319
LX(BD)351 LHR 1145 - GVA 1425 320
LX355 LHR 1425 - GVA 1705 319
LX(BD)349 LHR 1640 - GVA 1920 320
LX357 LHR 1930 - GVA 2210 319

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

And quite interestingly, the remaining flights to LCY are almost complete duplications timewise of the LHR services, unless these are to be retimed.

LX442 GVA 0725 LCY 0805 AR1
LX434 GVA 1240 LCY 1320 AR1
LX446 GVA 1725 LCY 1810 AR1
LX440 GVA 2005 LCY 2040 AR1

LX441 LCY 0645 GVA 0930 AR1
LX443 LCY 0835 GVA 1120 AR1
LX435 LCY 1355 GVA 1635 AR1
LX447 LCY 1840 GVA 2125 AR1


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9097 times:

BD is being used as wet lease for LH and LX. They might alos be used by SN to replace the existing BD services to BRU using BD equipment...


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBmiBaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1836 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9059 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Thread starter):
All flights to be marketed as LX flights, although 3 will be operated by BD.

Interesting to note this paragraph of the news release:

The new services between Geneva and London Heathrow will be operated by two aircraft of the Airbus A320 family. In an initial phase, one of these will be provided by bmi, SWISS’s new sister airline within the Lufthansa Group. Later, however, SWISS will operate all these London Heathrow services with its own equipment. A further SWISS Airbus A320 will be stationed in Geneva for this purpose.


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1633 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9018 times:

does anyone know what services are being dropped (presumably by BMI) to allocate LHR slots for these new services?

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8983 times:



Quoting Richard28 (Reply 4):
does anyone know what services are being dropped (presumably by BMI) to allocate LHR slots for these new services?

Not the way people have imagined BD's future...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8977 times:



Quoting Richard28 (Reply 4):
does anyone know what services are being dropped (presumably by BMI) to allocate LHR slots for these new services?

Dublin from what I have heard.


User currently offlineGpbcroppers63 From Ireland, joined Jan 2008, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8942 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 6):
Dublin from what I have heard.

Dublin is going completely?



According to one of my colleagues, my problem is that I'm addicted to travel!
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8810 times:

How interesting!

Just a few days ago I asked what the impediments were for that route to re-open other than the slots. (I then asked to close that thread after some pedantic smart**ss didn't have an answer to the question but whaffled on about how airlines within the LH Group do the accounting for slot transfers).

Apparently slots were the only impediment.

I hope that route will be successful, I'll certainly be a frequent guest.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8784 times:

Wet leasing of BD aircraft and usage on successful routes may be a safe way to stabilize BD.

User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8710 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 6):
Dublin from what I have heard

If BD can't make money on the busiest route in the world what hope is there?

I'm really glad to see LHR-GVA up and running again. It is a shame that they don't put a flight out of LGW too.


User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

Would be a real shocker to see DUB go, altough there is alot of competition on LON-DUB, I believe this to be one of the best performing BD routes.

User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8663 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
I'm really glad to see LHR-GVA up and running again. It is a shame that they don't put a flight out of LGW too.

Why would they? EZY are at a minimum of 6x daily on LGW-GVA. BA fly it 2x daily during the winter.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
If BD can't make money on the busiest route in the world what hope is there?

Just because it is busy doesn't mean it is profitable.

Some of the GVA slots are coming directly 1 for 1 from Dublin. The others are uncertain.

It is still quite possible that Dublin would survive and something else may be cut (ABZ?).

One has to note though that generally LX and *'s operations in GVA will grow significantly in the next years. LHR is the first step to it, and admittedly the most important one.


User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8654 times:

Which frame will be used for the LX work? Will it be refitted in the same way G-DBCA/B have been to higher standards.

[Edited 2009-11-23 06:37:48]

User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2976 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8286 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 10):
If BD can't make money on the busiest route in the world what hope is there?

I didn't know BD operated in the BCN-MAD route.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

Two things

Firstly the mention of future increased BD/LX co-operation. bmi's EDI-ZRH could really do with an LX codeshare if its survives all the changes at bmi

And secondly, and very pedantic, but LX are already due to be flying LHR-GVA this winter, twice a week as a weekend ski service  Wink



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7964 times:

DUB-LHR isnt the busiest air route in the world, however DUB-LON ranks very highly.

BCN-MAD is busiest in terms of number of flights between the 2.

In terms of passengers numbers BCN-MAD is not the busiest route.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7313 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7933 times:



Quoting Gpbcroppers63 (Reply 7):
Dublin is going completely?

Dublin and Amsterdam are not mentioned on the back of the new diamond club gold cards...



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7922 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 1):
And quite interestingly, the remaining flights to LCY are almost complete duplications timewise of the LHR services, unless these are to be retimed.

That's irrelevant. The two markets are separate and it's not surprising the timings are almost the same as that's where the demand is. Lots of same-day returns due to heavy business traffic, especially to/from LCY.


User currently offlineSandroZRH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Finally! I was waiting for this to happen ever since LX gave some of their slots to BA for basically nothign in return. However I hope LX will launch a new mid-morning flight ex-ZRH aswell. There's a gaping hole between the first and second LHR flights of the day.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7819 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 16):
DUB-LHR isnt the busiest air route in the world, however DUB-LON ranks very highly.

I believe HND-CTS is still the world's busiest air route in number of passengers. It has been for years.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2224 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7755 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
That's irrelevant. The two markets are separate and it's not surprising the timings are almost the same as that's where the demand is. Lots of same-day returns due to heavy business traffic, especially to/from LCY.

They aren't independant, if they were then LX would not reduce their frequencies to LCY.

I think the similar timings are more a factor of:

-trying to bank departures from Geneva
-Aircraft utilization
-A late decision to launch the flight.

In fact one can wonder how smart it is to start a flight with 6 daily frequencies with the flight being put on sale only a month and a half before the first flight. I think this timing has more to do with LH taking over and potentially seeing that existing BD markets have poor forward bookings and GVA has been quite resistant to the crisis.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7693 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 21):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
That's irrelevant. The two markets are separate and it's not surprising the timings are almost the same as that's where the demand is. Lots of same-day returns due to heavy business traffic, especially to/from LCY.

They aren't independant, if they were then LX would not reduce their frequencies to LCY.

I think the cut in capacity to LCY mainly reflects a drop in demand due to the financial crisis which has had a big effect on the London financial industry, a major market to/from GVA. The fact that AF (CityJet) has pulled out of the GVA-LCY market after only a year or so of service, where I think they had 3 Avro RJs a day until fairly recently, is another indication of that. AF now codeshares on 2 daily Baboo (F7) Dash 8-400s GVA-LCY which recently started.

It's easier to fill seats to/from LHR at off-peak times as there are more opportunities to pick up some connecting traffic while GVA-LCY is almost totally O&D.


User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7636 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 12):
One has to note though that generally LX and *'s operations in GVA will grow significantly in the next years. LHR is the first step to it, and admittedly the most important one.

Interesting. What makes you say that? Indeed, United and Air Canada did join the GVA crowd, and SA)">CO - who have been around since some time - now strengthens the Star ranks.

But other than that? What kind of further Star Alliance expansion could we be expecting?

All but a few of the European Star partners are already active in GVA and serve their respective hubs: SK, LO, SN, OS, LH, TP, TK. Indeed, JK is missing, and so are A3, JP, OU and KF. So the kind of expansion is rather limited in terms of new Star airlines and would need to be more flights, increase in capacity or new destinations by existing airlines (whatever, say SK also opens OSL).

I don't see any of the intercontinental Star partners coming there (SQ, US, JJ, SA, NH, CA, FM, NZ - just no fit; TG has been here in the past as a tag-on to the ZRH flight but moved out some time ago).

Maybe LX re-discovers GVA? There currently are only a few LX mainline destinations from GVA: Prague, Budapest, Bucarest, Moscow (why that love with Eastern Europe?), Barcelona, Athens. Add LCY as another ARJ destination. So who knows, maybe more is to come. But GVA has been left to Easyjet to a large extent, so LX really must be aggressive to win back market share.

I am old enough to remember how people felt in Geneva when LX pulled out (it was more my parents that were affected than me, but still...). Whilst we could see the logic of not needing flights to Brazzaville to stop in GVA, cutting the European network was harsh.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7595 times:



Quoting Mozart (Reply 23):
TG has been here in the past as a tag-on to the ZRH flight but moved out some time ago

When TG started service to GVA it was a tag-on from ATH with a 777-300 (non-ER) with 5th freedom rights GVA-ATH. When that didn't work, they siwtched to a tag-on from ZRH using a 744 which was even less likely to make economic sense.

Quoting Mozart (Reply 23):
I am old enough to remember how people felt in Geneva when LX pulled out

It wasn't LX that largely pulled out of GVA. It was Swissair in the mid-1990s.


25 Mozart : You are right of course. LX at the time was still Crossair. But it was obviously our good old SR that pulled so many GVA flights. LHR was one of them
26 UALWN : I believe you are right. BCN-MAD was the busiest in terms of number of flights between single airports until AVE started last year. Now it's probably
27 Runway23 : TG never had 5th freedom from GVA-ATH. The greek government blocked 5th freedom from TG in an attempt to save OA who at the time flew the route. LX h
28 Viscount724 : Thanks. I thought they did but you're probably right.
29 Aswissinmad : Actually it was LX -Swiss- that shut down the GVA-LHR route, in 2004.
30 Viscount724 : Correct. In fact GVA-LHR was one of the few routes Swissair maintained, along with GVA-JFK, when they moved almost everything else to ZRH in the mid-
31 Runway23 : Well it was quite clear that LX got rapped in the deal, that also included IIRC 3 daily slots from BSL. In all, you had the 4 GVA-LHR slots and 3 BSL
32 Humberside : Quietly announced in the press release about LHR-GVA is that GVA-OTP is being axed. Bet Baboo will be happy As regards the LHR slots, a pprune post m
33 Mozart : I never quite understood the logic for that route anyway... What LX could think about is to serve some MENA markets. Morocco, Cairo, Beirut, Gulf sta
34 Babybus : Then what on Earth have they been doing running a route at a loss? They are quick enough to drop routes overnight. Why should DUB be special if it's
35 Runway23 : If you took the time to read my reply in full, I wouldn't be replying to both your points. Similarly, you are insinuating things I have absolutely no
36 Babybus : That is my interpretation of doing it better. You provide what the customer wants and, if your mix is right, you make a profit. So if I start an airl
37 COEI2007 : An airline should start a route wherever it thinkgs it can make money VS wont start a route competing with BA is if it doesnt think it will make mone
38 AIR MALTA : LX should try and restart those routes to CMN, ALG, TUN and CAI where local carriers have a monopoly at the moment. It can also give DKR a try if nec
39 Slz396 : I've indeed read a rumour about the idea of shifting the 6 daily BRU-LHR flights operated by the LH group of airlines to SN, similar to the construct
40 BestWestern : DUB LHR for BD was for a long time BD's second most profitable route, after BHD LHR. As DUB LHR is a high frequency business market with strong feed
41 Slz396 : Now confirmed by BD themselves. SN is to take over the 6 daily flights on LHR-BRU as from January next year!
42 AIR MALTA : I only tried to guess what's gonna happen and it indeed happened. Why didn't BD operate flighst to Switzerland and Belgium. They have the fleet and t
43 Shamrock321 : DUB-LHR survives, had no doubt it would, the only airline offering business class on one of the busiest routes in Europe, there was no doubt it would
44 EICVD : I wasn't worried about BD cutting LHR-DUB either, have flown the route quite a few times in the past year & LF was always high.
45 MasseyBrown : The LH Group's ability to mix and match brands, routes, slots, and equipment has huge potential. Given that LH itself lacks smaller capacity widebodie
46 Panamair : Well, LX won't really have smaller widebodies once the A332s are phased out in the next two years; the A333 will be the 'smallest' - same as LH. I be
47 Kiwiandrew : LX are in the process of removing the A332 from their fleet and replacing them with A333 , once that happens the smallest LX widebody will be the sam
48 Post contains links Kiwiandrew : My understanding is that there are two levels of ATI - the 'deeper' one which is the JV , referred to as Atlantic Plus Plus involves AC UA CO LH only
49 MasseyBrown : Neither that link nor the actual DOT order actually provides the level of detail I was looking for. So, for a concrete query, could LH use an OS 763
50 Viscount724 : Personally I think it is a good job. Europe has far too many airlines and anything that results in greater consolidation is a good thing for the long
51 UALWN : I guess that, because of the EU-US open skies agreement, OS can fly between FRA-CLE. So it would be legal. Whether the flight would enter the revenue
52 JoFMO : I see it more as a symbol, that these markets are predominently Foreign Country to UK markets than UK to Foreign Country markets. Therefore it is mor
53 Runway23 : I can see the reasoning for GVA-LHR where bmi is an unknown brand in GVA and LX has a number of corporate contracts, a well known brand and product t
54 Humberside : Arguably LHR-BRU is more important to SN's BRU hub than it is to bmi's remaining LHR operation
55 MasseyBrown : Thanks, I'm really interested in 1) whether a Lufthansa subsidiary qualifies as part of the joint venture and 2) whether LH could wet charter a subsi
56 Shamrock321 : Humberside you are right, BRU-LHR is more important to SN than it is to BD. What are the realistic chances as mentioned above of LHR-BSL or other rout
57 Poh2 : are you sure about this? I've always wondered about this shady deal that Swiss did with BA back in the day. It was always clear to me that they gave
58 LYChemsa : Because BABOO now operate GVA to LCY, I assume LX are reducing service.
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