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LH First A380 To Be Delayed By Several Months  
User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17418 times:

Looks like Airbus is still struggling with A380 delays. This particular delay was not requested by the carrier. They are still expecting to deliver 20 A380's next year. Atleast until they announce otherwise. Sad it will be delayed.  Sad

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=aH43Xa3c9yfM

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1117 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17339 times:

Just when I thought they were beginning to have a grip on things... How long before they reach the 43/year production target?

If I remember, well, the building in Toulouse is sized for twice this production rate. Is that right? Hard to imagine a world where 80+ A380/year would be required.

[Edited 2009-11-24 06:23:51]

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17177 times:

Just to remind everybody: Boeing delivered about 100 747s in its first production year. In a time when there was almost no computer help, no realtime info system. All done by "hand" so to say. Makes me admire Sutter and his guys back then. Not so much the overpaid "geniusses"who are running the business now.

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17034 times:

Too bad, I was hoping to fly the LH a380 to JFK this summer. Oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for the AF a380  Wink


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16965 times:

I know the 787's delays have taken the front page (as well they should given that fiasco), but I'm surprised Airbus is still having problems with the assembly of the A380. You would have thought they would have everything pretty much worked out by now.

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10925 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16964 times:

Several months is a lot.

Reminding that LH were the ones to do the very first passenger (proving) flight with a 380 borrowed from Airbus flying to JFK and back with LH pilots in command of the flight. I had a friend who worked for LH at the time and was among the happy few chosen to go on the fligths.

This delay is not good news.

I guess Air France were very lucky not to have their one 380 delivery delayed by Airbus.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16844 times:
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It would be helpful to know why it is late, but as I believe it is at XFW, it must be related to the cabin fittings?

Are most of the delivery delays as of late at XFW or are planes leaving TLS behind schedule?


User currently offlineIliriBDL From Germany, joined May 2007, 1205 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16678 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Just to remind everybody: Boeing delivered about 100 747s in its first production year. In a time when there was almost no computer help, no realtime info system. All done by "hand" so to say. Makes me admire Sutter and his guys back then. Not so much the overpaid "geniusses"who are running the business now.

Exactly and makes you think back in the day if they had the power like they do now, computers, technology, etc where we would be in the aviation.  Wink



delta.com
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 16499 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 2):

Just to remind everybody: Boeing delivered about 100 747s in its first production year. In a time when there was almost no computer help, no realtime info system. All done by "hand" so to say. Makes me admire Sutter and his guys back then. Not so much the overpaid "geniusses"who are running the business now.


that was then and this is now.

Anyway why bring this up? With only 100 or so orders why would Airbus churn them all out in a year?

Those pesky EK showers are causing a headache at XFW. What impact will this have on other customers like Korean?


User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16292 times:

There is one point were thing start to get embarrassing!
I hope that this is no outlook for the A350 development.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16172 times:



Quoting A380900 (Reply 1):
Just when I thought they were beginning to have a grip on things... How long before they reach the 43/year production target?

Most likely never. Airbus building (and delivering) 43 A380's in a year is just a ludicrous as Boeing assembling a 787 in three days.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16044 times:



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 8):
With only 100 or so orders

202 at the momemt. Thats a bit more.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 8):
Anyway why bring this up?

Why not. These two program are comparable.


User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1117 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15958 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 2):
Just to remind everybody: Boeing delivered about 100 747s in its first production year. In a time when there was almost no computer help, no realtime info system. All done by "hand" so to say. Makes me admire Sutter and his guys back then. Not so much the overpaid "geniusses"who are running the business now.

It makes one wonder. The entire process seems so much heavier. Yet it is hard to see what exactly is making the A380 so differently (it's still moving people around). As Renault (French carmaker) did with a new car that was deprived of all the niceties being a drag on production that were added on all cars since 30 years called the Logan, one wonders whether there would be room for just sturdy airplanes costing half as much where people would read books. Could they build these in China maybe?


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15960 times:

It appears there is some confusion. Flight Global reports a delay of just a few weeks, not months:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nsa-a380-put-back-a-few-weeks.html

Much ado about nothing?



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1931 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15936 times:

Err.... Flight Global is reporting a delay of "several weeks" and not "several months"...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nsa-a380-put-back-a-few-weeks.html

So, what is it going to be?

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10183 posts, RR: 97
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15919 times:
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Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Why not. These two program are comparable.

Not as much as we would like to think, I would suggest.

The regulatory environment, general technological environment, and system complexity (particularly in terms of software) of a modern airliner, are an order of magnitude more difficult than they were when the 747 was first built.

The first nuclar submarines were built in half the time that it takes today, and in terms of what you see, and the "bits" they have in them, they are no different.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Are most of the delivery delays as of late at XFW or are planes leaving TLS behind schedule?

If you look at this thread

A380 Production Thread #5: (by Aircellist Nov 17 2009 in Civil Aviation)

N14AZ posted a chart which shows:-

Convoy frequency accelerating
First-Flight frequency acceleratinig even more quickly (i.e. assembly time is dropping)
Delivery not accelerating at all.
i.e. the bottleneck is unquestionably XFW

Rgds


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1931 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15856 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
Why not. These two program are comparable.

No they are not, or not completely. The amount of customer customization on the A380, or any airliner nowadays is unheard of. That wasn't possible back in the '70's. A lot of the latest delays has been thanks to this.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 13):
It appears there is some confusion. Flight Global reports a delay of just a few weeks, not months:

Near simultaneous post!  Wink

Quoting Kappel (Reply 13):
Much ado about nothing?

Probably!

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineMUCFLYER From Germany, joined May 2004, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15810 times:

these are the new delivery dates which means just 4, not 5, A380 in 2010 for Lufthansa:

D-AIMA 038 31.05.10
D-AIMB 041 30.06.10
D-AIMC 044 31.07.10
D-AIMD 048 30.09.10

D-AIME 061 31.01.11
D-AIMF 066 28.02.11
D-AIMG 069 30.04.11
D-AIMH 070 30.04.11

D-AIMI 072 still open
D-AIMJ 073 still open


User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14226 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 15):
The regulatory environment, general technological environment, and system complexity (particularly in terms of software) of a modern airliner, are an order of magnitude more difficult than they were when the 747 was first built.

The first nuclar submarines were built in half the time that it takes today, and in terms of what you see, and the "bits" they have in them, they are no different.

You would expect a well run organization to factor in the added complexity into a longer schedule and deliver according to it. The repeating delays that marred both the 787 and A380 programs are indicative of a systematic issue.
IMHO the problem stems from the difference between the skills required to get to the top, and the skills required to manage the organization once you got there.

DLP


User currently offlineBigbird From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 14046 times:
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Does anyone kbow what the breakeven number is now? I remember a couple of yeasr ago it was around 425. Has that changed?


bigbird from georgia
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13494 times:



Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 16):
No they are not, or not completely. The amount of customer customization on the A380, or any airliner nowadays is unheard of. That wasn't possible back in the '70's. A lot of the latest delays has been thanks to this.

Since you were not even born until the late 70's at the earliest I will try and enlighten you of the efforts taken by the OEM's to sell airframes in the 1970's. These are a few of the many ways airframes were customized in the 70's in addition to specific customer interior requirements.

A few examples: LTU and Pan Am L-1011-500's. The aft cargo door was deleted at their request.

British Airway's and Court Line's L-1011-1 and -200's a eighth large Type A door was installed in lieu the three Type A and one Type 1 doors all other L-1011 received.

Many different passenger door configurations on the 767-300's, Some have two Type A doors and two over wing exits, some have three Type A doors and one over wing exits and some have three Type A doors one Type 1 door and no over wing exits.

You don't see Airbus allowing the customer choose what type doors to install and where to install them. That would be real customization.


User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13338 times:



Quoting A380900 (Reply 12):
one wonders whether there would be room for just sturdy airplanes costing half as much where people would read books. Could they build these in China maybe?

Agreed, the desire to pack more features into a product has raised the cost considerably. But I think the customers are requesting these features.

I believe they eventually can and will build a basic, no frills airliner in China, and sooner rather than later. Several designs are at various stages of development. I believe it will mimic the Russian commercial aerospace industry. Russian planes, while sometimes not pretty to look at and not the most efficient, are generally rugged, well built utilitarian machines. No bells and whistles, and ongoing maintenance may be in question, but the designs seem sound.


User currently onlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2790 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13200 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Are most of the delivery delays as of late at XFW or are planes leaving TLS behind schedule?

In terms of MSN 038 there are a couple of reasons - like always:

when MSN 038 arrived in XFW there was no outfitting hangar available due to the fact that other A 380s had consumed much more time in the outfiitting hangars.

I used a journey through Northern Germany on October 14th to make a short stop in XFW and I was suprised to see MSN 028 standing outside together with some A320 "white tails".
Big version: Width: 807 Height: 441 File size: 47kb
XFW on October 14th 2009 (MSN 038 for LH)

Finally, MSN 038 found an empty outfitting hangar. There was the word that some reworking was necessary before they were able to start with cabin outfitting.

I also heard that the seats selected by Lufthansa didn't stand the g-force test and their delivery to Finkenwerder has been postponed.

But I also heard that LH has not yet confirmed the final layout completly which makes it hard for the Airbus employees to proceed with the procurement. This is something that is often mentioned in German aviation forums: it seems that Airbus gave their clients too much freedom to make changes at the end of the production time and obviously they are using this chance (e.g. Emirates, see MSN 007).

This is just what became "public". There might be other issues which are unkown.

In terms of MSN 041, LH's second A 380, there seems to be a small delay in Toulouse, as MSN 041 has already been "overtaken" by another A 380 (MSN 030 for EK), which had entered the FAL after MSN 041.

Best regards
N14AZ


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12964 times:
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Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 16):
The amount of customer customization on the A380, or any airliner nowadays is unheard of. That wasn't possible back in the '70's. A lot of the latest delays has been thanks to this.

In terms of wiring and power for IFE and seating, I can buy that. But when you look at the different lounges many widebodies employed and different seating layouts, I'm not so sure...


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12006 times:

How disappointing.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):


Too bad, I was hoping to fly the LH a380 to JFK this summer. Oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for the AF a380

I was hoping exactly the same, but AF is no option for me. Anyone with an estimate when the A380 will do it's first commercial flight?

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 8):


Those pesky EK showers are causing a headache at XFW. What impact will this have on other customers like Korean?

What does this have to do with Lufty's A380 already at XFW?

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 16):

No they are not, or not completely. The amount of customer customization on the A380, or any airliner nowadays is unheard of. That wasn't possible back in the '70's. .

However I agree with you on the fact customization is very important especially with the A380, the 747 actually was one big example of customer customization. The SUD was actually customer customization in it's purest form. The large first classes and the styles of airlines like Pan Am and TWA made customization a widely spread phenomenon even back then.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
25 Manfredj : Didn't some of the original 747 order's call for lounges, piano bars, etc etc? The technology of the time is relative. The "redundant" systems as wel
26 474218 : As did the DC-10 and the L-1011. Some TriStars even had a lower lobe lounge. There is nothing new being installed on the A380 just, more.
27 Tootallsd : I love technology but this thread seems to raise an interesting question. Are we running technology or is it getting in our way. If the A380 (or 787,
28 Aircellist : That is not fair. Early 747s, DC-10s and L1011 had three, four, let's say five big screens, with associated projectors. Audio channels were playing t
29 EbbUK : I don't believe you. I wonder if they are hogging the hangar time with the fiddly taps and water tanks? Trust you to take the conversation right off
30 Par13del : Probably exactly whats taking place now, the slide rule folks would be lazy as the computers now do all the work Resources could be used for the A350
31 474218 : Think you for your insightful post. I have argued with many people on a.net over the years on profit margin. They read where Airbus claims a profit m
32 Tootallsd : They may well make 25% per unit but there is so much else left to pay for. For example, a supermarket might make 25% on a can of product. But then yo
33 VV701 : The reverse is certainly true for Boeing produced aircraft. Back in the 70s Boeing offered the 741 either with passenger seating or a lounge / bar on
34 Post contains images Viscount724 : Your Airbus comment isn't quite correct. Airbus does offer some door/emergency exit options. Examples below. Some A330-200s have a Type A emergency e
35 474218 : [ I stand corrected, but we were discussing the A380 .
36 Astuteman : Can I agree with you 100 times over? Computers, and their programmes, have stopped us from thinking and communicating in a way that's needed to execu
37 Kappel : Great minds think alike Why not if I may ask?
38 Burkhard : Since the costs are majority in Euro, and the sales in $, this quantitiy only can be calculated assuming a $ exchange rate, which we do not know, so
39 LifelinerOne : I'm indeed talking about all the wiring and powering for IFE, seating, showers etc. I know about lounges and piano bars etc. being done in other jets
40 BrouAviation : Don't want to transit in CDG, and I am a Miles&More member. And above all, I'm a Lufty-fan.
41 Rheinwaldner : That is very nice from you but luckily each human is not restricted to know only those things witnessed personally. Somebody could be born past 2000
42 Aesma : Did you talk about the evolution of safety and efficiency ? Safety means you cannot change a door just like that, you have to prove it will still be s
43 LifelinerOne : Ah, so true! Cheers!
44 474218 : I take it you have never worked on or around an aircraft production line? If you had you would not think it is more difficult to move some seats and
45 FrmrCAPCADET : Boeing mentioned years ago that there was too much customizing and that it was leading to higher prices. I am sure that A and B would like to reduce i
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