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What Makes NW Flights Still 'NW'?  
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

- that is, how complete is DL/NW merge? I wouldn't expect to see "operated by NW" in DL schedule, let alone NW in, say, expedia flights list. Why is NW still there (or what am I missing as it's still there)? (My only guess is, not to confuse general public that has no clue of "NW-looking" airplane they are boarding actually being DL)

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

They still have separate operating certificates. Once a single one is granted (estimated at end of December) the Northwest name will no longer be used.


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineMadDogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

I believe they are still two distinct entities due to both airlines still having separate operating certificates, and thus, separate fleets, crews & workforces, etc. I believe once SOC (Single Operating Certificate) is achieved which is coming later this year or early next year, that some of this might change a bit and we won't see any "operated by NW" or "operated by DL", both of which we see now on NW route authorities with DL aircraft (JFK-NRT) and vice versa (DTW-LHR).

User currently offlineNwafan20 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Because they are still on two operating certificates, therefore legally separate airlines and have to be distinguished as such.


Long live the Red Tail! | WMU Flight Science major
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Got it, thank you. So, officially it's still something like, "NW owned by DL but not absorbed yet"...

User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2696 times:
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Quoting RIX (Thread starter):
- that is, how complete is DL/NW merge? I wouldn't expect to see "operated by NW" in DL schedule, let alone NW in, say, expedia flights list. Why is NW still there (or what am I missing as it's still there)? (My only guess is, not to confuse general public that has no clue of "NW-looking" airplane they are boarding actually being DL)

In the eyes of the FAA, DL and NW are entirely separate airlines with two separate operating certificates, no different in concept than the difference between CO and UA -- FROM THE FAA P.O.V.

At this stage of the merger, NW is a wholly-owned subsidiary of DL. Thus, while by no means a regional airline, the relationship between DL and NW is structurally similar to the relationship between DL and Comair.

Paraphrasing what PremoBrimo states in reply #1, once DL surrenders the NW operating certificate, "NW go by by."

~CGKings317  Smile



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User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1734 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2542 times:
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Quoting PremoBrimo (Reply 1):
They still have separate operating certificates. Once a single one is granted (estimated at end of December) the Northwest name will no longer be used.

In terms of the FAA - but Northwest will still exist as nwa.com will remain in operation and it's 012 ticket stock will continue to be used until Delta shuts down Northwest's website and removes WorldSpan and all NW moves to Deltamatic. Estimated for late first quarter '10.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2464 times:



Quoting RIX (Reply 4):
"NW owned by DL but not absorbed yet"...

NW is an airline. Period. The owner of it is DL. That's how the government sees it, at this time. NW has recognized legal authorities to run their operation; DL does not necessarily have those.

The reason is because it's complicated to snap fingers and give DL the authority and legal ability to run NW's vast operation. It takes a few years to get all that paperwork and training done, because airline maintenance is very regulated, and other issues. So it will fade gradually over to DL until there is nothing left of NW but the flight numbers (and the guts all reside at Delta). Then, they will flip the NW light off. But they can't do it before that.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2461 times:



Quoting N7371f (Reply 6):
In terms of the FAA - but Northwest will still exist as nwa.com will remain in operation and it's 012 ticket stock will continue to be used until Delta shuts down Northwest's website and removes WorldSpan and all NW moves to Deltamatic. Estimated for late first quarter '10.

It's very surprising/confusing that nwa.com still exists, IMO. There is no customer need to know the "operator" of a DL flight (whether Comair, NW, Skywest). Hope they don't drag it out too long. BTW I will miss NW.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2391 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
It's very surprising/confusing that nwa.com still exists, IMO. There is no customer need to know the "operator" of a DL flight (whether Comair, NW, Skywest). Hope they don't drag it out too long.

Compare the DL/NW merger to US/HP, and the DL/NW merger is going quickly and smoothly.

US and HP announced they were merging May 19 2005. Their web sites were not merged until May 2006 and the SOC was not approved until September 2007. They still have not worked out the union mess with the pilots.

DL and NW announced their merger on April 15, 2009. The SOC is expected by the end of the year, and I believe the web site is expected to disappear shortly after that. There seems to be nowhere close to the union / contract problems that US/HP has had or still is having.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2137 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
It's very surprising/confusing that nwa.com still exists, IMO. There is no customer need to know the "operator" of a DL flight (whether Comair, NW, Skywest). Hope they don't drag it out too long. BTW I will miss NW.

There is a legal requirement to tell the customer who they are actually flying, this is why when you buy a ticket of the phone you usually hear the agent telling you many times that a flight is a Delta Connection flight operated by XXX.

Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
DL and NW announced their merger on April 15, 2009. The SOC is expected by the end of the year, and I believe the web site is expected to disappear shortly after that.

The schedule I heard is that all reservation functions will be moved to DLTerm the last week of January, that is probably the same time NWA.com will also go offline or more likely be redirected to delta.com.


User currently offlineLuckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2045 times:



Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
There seems to be nowhere close to the union / contract problems that US/HP has had or still is having.

To be fair Delta is only unionized with the pilots and dispatchers. Thus there is effectively more than half of the union problem not there. On top of all that Delta and NW were already aligned to a nice degree due to their alliance.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2008 times:



Quoting Luckyone (Reply 11):

To be fair Delta is only unionized with the pilots and dispatchers. Thus there is effectively more than half of the union problem not there. On top of all that Delta and NW were already aligned to a nice degree due to their alliance.

Nonetheless, the most prominent (at least to me as an outside observer) US/HP that remains to this date is the pilots - which I think were both ALPA at the time of merger. Same case with NW/DL, who were both ALPA. The difference is that DL/NW were able to come up with an agreement that was acceptable to both sides in DL/NW, while US/HP couldn't and led to the formation of USAPA. Of course, it runs deeper than that (where DL/NW are both long-established carriers, while an HP captain might only be able to hold a FO seat on a US-East plane, which complicates things a lot).


User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1739 times:



Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
DL and NW announced their merger on April 15, 2009. The SOC is expected by the end of the year, and I believe the web site is expected to disappear shortly after that.

Just a quick correction - the merger was announced on April 14, 2008 - http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=135

Doesn't change the fact it seems to be significantly less acrimonious than HP/US...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25352 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1703 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 10):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
It's very surprising/confusing that nwa.com still exists, IMO. There is no customer need to know the "operator" of a DL flight (whether Comair, NW, Skywest). Hope they don't drag it out too long. BTW I will miss NW.

There is a legal requirement to tell the customer who they are actually flying, this is why when you buy a ticket of the phone you usually hear the agent telling you many times that a flight is a Delta Connection flight operated by XXX.

Many airlines have been fined by the US DOT for failing to do that consistently. The DOT spot-checks that it's being done by making test calls and checking websites etc.


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