Mozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2007 posts, RR: 14 Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4971 times:
I have two questions about Jackson Hole airport:
1. I read on Wikipedia that "In addition, Jackson Hole Airport is one of the only airports in the nation that ships live cattle by airplane. Cattle shipments are extremely lucrative and earn the airport 5% of its summer income."
Very interesting. Where do these cattle fly to? Which airline does that, on which aircraft type?
2. Supposedly there are seasonal services to Los Angeles. I checked for the coming winter months, nothing there, neither by UA nor by any other carrier. Can someone tell me more about this?
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4931 times:
They ship top end horses by air....to races, shows, breeding farms, etc. And if someone buys a horse and lives on a different continent they'll have it shipped home by air. I can't see regular run of the mill cattle being shipped by air but if you had a very special bull that had to be shipped to a different continent or perhaps even a long trip in th US I'm sure he'd get an airplane ride. I believe you can even ship a horse with FX so maybe a bull too.
However, what you describe is something that I believed would happen everywhere if needed. However, the text specifically mentions "Jackson Hole Airport is one of the only airports in the nation" doing that. Now, if the author's information are as good as his English ("one of the only" (sic) - "one of the few" is probably what he wanted to say) then maybe there indeed is no big deal there.
Dazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5447 posts, RR: 53 Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4812 times:
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6140 posts, RR: 25 Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4766 times:
FedEx used to have a specialized group to ship race horses. They were quite good at moving the high value, extremely lucrative for the airline, cargo.
Quoting Mozart (Reply 2): "Jackson Hole Airport is one of the only airports in the nation"
I think there is a semantics issue here - because if they ship live cattle out - there has to be another airport somewhere for them to land. Right?
None of the references cited refer to cattle being shipped - but the Wiki article indicates one dedicated aircraft for cattle shipment is based at the airport.
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4553 times:
I noticed this airport only has 1 runway with a length of only 6300 feet at an elevation of 6451 feet. One thing I've learned from my years of visiting A.net is that that's going to be a problem for a large heavy cargo plane. It's also entirely located within Grand Teton National Park so aircraft going in there have to be Stage-lll compliant noisewise. Another little tidbit I've picked up on A.net is that cargo aircraft tend to be old and noisey. I also took a look at the airport on google earth specifically looking for stock pens and didn't see any. I supose whenever they had cattle going through they could set up portable pens but I would think if they shipped large numbers of cattle on a regular basis they'd have permenent stock pens with ramps to unload them from trucks. And the Jackson Hole airport website makes no mention of shipping cattle. So although the occasional bovine might get shipped from this airport I'm inclined to believe that line on wikipedia might have been a bit overstated.
You can pretty much ship horses from any airport that can handle say a B737 size plane. They put them in an aluminum stall that's kinda shaped like a cargo container, sissor lift it up to the door and roll them in. Of course this is rather tramatic for the horse so they'll quite often tranquillize and/or blindfold them. I imagine they could ship individual cattle the same way. But I think herding a large group of cattle onto an airplane would be too much trouble and too costly.
Few other things. If you were bringing cattle into the US from places like Europe or South America the airport would have to have quarrentine facilities. Also you can ship bull semen anywhere in the world so the need to ship cattle for breeding purposes really isn't there. And I don't see a feedlot loading cattle in a truck...taking them to an airport...flying them to another airport...and loading them in a truck again to take them to the packing plant. Much easier to find a packing plant in Wyoming and truck the meat to LA.
JHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4464 times:
Keep in mind you are sourcing Wikipedia for your information....
CrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1615 posts, RR: 42 Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4431 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW CHAT OPERATOR
Quoting Mozart (Thread starter): Supposedly there are seasonal services to Los Angeles. I checked for the coming winter months, nothing there, neither by UA nor by any other carrier. Can someone tell me more about this?
I was there for 2 days in the summer of 08, on both days I spotted a UA 752 though I wouldn't know what destination it went. I also spotted a FX ATR and a C-32 of which I suspect was picking up/dropping off Cheney at his house in the area.
UA on final with the Teton range in the background
Tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1374 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4408 times:
Quoting Dazed767 (Reply 3): I'd guess Kalitta or Capital Cargo.
Yep, but I don't think we will be bringing the 727 into JAC.
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4375 times:
Quoting Trucker (Reply 5): might have been a bit overstated.
Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 6): Keep in mind you are sourcing Wikipedia for your information....
Actually I was very tempted to use a pun and call that line so much of what comes out of the posterior end of an uncastrated male bovine in it's more common term but I spent alot of time on that post and didn't want the mods deleting it.
MtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2114 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
Well maybe a good source would be to call the airport admin folks at JAC and see if they can shed light on the subjct you are asking about.
I was there in September and saw one of UA's 757s there as well. Very bright and sunny day. They are doing terminal expansion there so it was a bit dusty lol.
That was the first time since 1976 that I'd been to Teton area.
On a sidenote, in mid '70s a Korean Air Lines 707 was taking a load of cattle (to Korea,I assume) from BOI and one of their main gear broke thru the asphalt on the taxiway (if IIRC). That must've been fun lol.
Thegreatchecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4267 times:
Quoting Mozart (Thread starter): Supposedly there are seasonal services to Los Angeles
. I checked for the coming winter months, nothing there, neither by UA nor by any other carrier. Can someone tell me more about this?
While there is very good skiing in JAC, it is much busier in the summer months when both Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks are fully open. The inner park roads are not plowed in the winter and most of the parks are essentially closed to vehicular traffic.
Quoting Trucker (Reply 5): entirely located within Grand Teton National Park
According the charts I use at the airline, it's just outside of the park borders (we are asked to avoid overflying the park when able). However, you are correct that the airport is closed to stage II a/c.
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 7): I was there for 2 days in the summer of 08
That log cabin terminal must have been nice.
Quoting Thegreatchecko (Reply 11): According to the charts I use at the airline, it's just outside of the park borders
More good info from Wikipedia. Second paragraph says JAC is one of only two airports in the US that's in a national park along with Provincetown Municipal Airport in Massachusetts. Wonder if they got that one right?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4073 times:
Quoting Trucker (Reply 1): can't see regular run of the mill cattle being shipped by air but if you had a very special bull that had to be shipped to a different continent or perhaps even a long trip in th US I'm sure he'd get an airplane ride.
Cattle have often been shipped by air. Air Canada (DC-8) and Martinair (either DC-10 or MD-11) examples below.
Borism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4007 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13): Cattle have often been shipped by air. Air Canada (DC-8) and Martinair (either DC-10 or MD-11) examples below.
Thanks, finally one useful answer on this thread besides Wikipedia bashing.
Aircraft in second picture seems a bit too narrow for DC-10/MD-11 to me, besides can JAC really handle aircraft so large? To me it seems B757 is the biggest one they get...
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3980 times:
Quoting Borism (Reply 14): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Cattle have often been shipped by air. Air Canada (DC-8) and Martinair (either DC-10 or MD-11) examples below.
Thanks, finally one useful answer on this thread besides Wikipedia bashing.
Aircraft in second picture seems a bit too narrow for DC-10/MD-11 to me, besides can JAC really handle aircraft so large? To me it seems B757 is the biggest one they get...
I wasn't implying that those photos were taken at JAC. I was only referring to cattle shipped by air in general. The Martinair photo was probably taken at AMS. I'm pretty sure it's a DC-10 or MD-11 from the window panels (a convertible passenger-cargo aircraft).
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3977 times:
I don't think these are regular run of the mill cattle. They appear to be dairy cattle...holsteins I think. I would guess they are very high quality dairy cattle being transported somewhere to upgrade a dairy herd or herds somewhere. I won't deny that cattle get airplane rides(I mentioned top bulls do), but like with horses, only the very best will ever see the inside of an airplane.
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6140 posts, RR: 25 Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3948 times:
Trucker From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3874 times:
Quoting Borism (Reply 14): finally one useful answer on this thread besides Wikipedia bashing.
3 out of 18 posts reference Wikipedia.
Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 10): maybe a good source would be to call the airport admin folks at JAC and see if they can shed light on the subjct you are asking about.
I kinda thought this was a good answer.
Quoting ABpositive (Reply 18): Not sure if they had joined the mile high club...
They wish....given how hard it is to get Pandas to breed.
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From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2007 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 178 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1615 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, 
From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, 
From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 221 posts, 
3 out of 18 posts reference Wikipedia.
They wish....given how hard it is to get Pandas to breed.
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