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DL Announces DTW-HNL  
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3262 posts, RR: 35
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11370 times:

I'm surprised no one has posted this yet. Further commitment to growing a strong DTW hub.

3x weekly A330 service beginning June 2, 2010.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...to-prnews-1000073959.html?x=0&.v=1

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4894 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11380 times:
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Looks like they're splitting the A333 with MSP-HNL (operating 4x weekly)

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3203 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11360 times:

Beat me to it by a few seconds, haha. Good to see it return though!!

Back in the good old days, NW summer HNL schedules saw a daily DTW-HNL with DC10-30 and a daily MSP-HNL with 747-100 or 747-200.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32691 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11246 times:

Not a new route, though. Northwest flew this for ages, though never consistently (sometimes only during the Christmas break). I think the route operated past 2004, but only for brief periods ("less than" seasonal).

[Edited 2009-12-02 13:19:30]


a.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Nice to see. Shame it splits with MSP, but it's nice to give the east coast cities that don't have MSP service a one-stop option without having to go to ATL.

User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11194 times:

Does anyone get the feeling that MSP and DTW cannibalize each other?


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15729 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11082 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 1):
Looks like they're splitting the A333 with MSP-HNL (operating 4x weekly)

Am I missing something here? What connections can they get at DTW that they can't at MSP or ATL? And certainly the O&D market for a rather long flight from what is possibly the country's most economically depressed city to a leisure destination can't be more attractive than MSP can it? Does this possibly have something to do with aircraft rotations or airport capacity?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11081 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 5):
Does anyone get the feeling that MSP and DTW cannibalize each other?

Yes, but so does ATL and JFK to a sense. It just depends on the market. Having grown up in a town right in between, when we traveled it was usually 50/50 between the two regardless of where we were heading. Like I remember doing MSN-MSP-DCA. Those two are very similar, which is why I always wondered why there was no DTW-HNL, so this makes perfect sense.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11051 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 7):
It just depends on the market.

...And which hub cities your local airport has nonstops to.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10958 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Am I missing something here? What connections can they get at DTW that they can't at MSP or ATL? And certainly the O&D market for a rather long flight from what is possibly the country's most economically depressed city to a leisure destination can't be more attractive than MSP can it? Does this possibly have something to do with aircraft rotations or airport capacity?

I second that



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10893 times:

So now we have CLT, ATL, DTW, MSP, EWR, IAH, ORD, and DFW operating to HA nonstop from the east/midwest.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8468 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10855 times:

MSP is losing the daily service? It has been in place a long time.

User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3262 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10842 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Am I missing something here? What connections can they get at DTW that they can't at MSP or ATL? And certainly the O&D market for a rather long flight from what is possibly the country's most economically depressed city to a leisure destination can't be more attractive than MSP can it? Does this possibly have something to do with aircraft rotations or airport capacity?

There are a significant number of small and midsized markets served from DTW that have little or no MSP service.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15729 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10825 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 12):
There are a significant number of small and midsized markets served from DTW that have little or no MSP service.

Enough to fill an A330 three times per week?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1630 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10829 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):

My guess is DL wanted (or needed) to add more flights to Hawaii - either for additional capacity or aircraft rotation. Rather than bring MSP back to daily, they took the opportunity to add another route to the DTW portfolio and make the two combine for 7 weekly frequencies.

As far as new cities that this offers service to, there wouldn't be many - and most of those would be smaller (YXU comes to mind). However, there are several northeastern cities that have little (or no) service to MSP and multiple flights to DTW. For those same cities, XXX-DTW-HNL is noticeably shorter than XXX-ATL-HNL and also lets DL use DTW to help accommodate some of the ATL connecting traffic.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10552 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
MSP is losing the daily service? It has been in place a long time.

It bothers me to consistently see MSP losing service while DTW gains, often at MSP's expense when for so long NW's largest hub was MSP, as well as largest O&D market.

Jeremy


User currently offlineAsflyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1169 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10521 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
It bothers me to consistently see MSP losing service while DTW gains, often at MSP's expense when for so long NW's largest hub was MSP, as well as largest O&D market.

Obviously, MSP was NW's headquarters but I thought DTW eclipsed MSP in terms of cities served and departures a while ago, no?


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3471 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10457 times:



Quoting Asflyer (Reply 16):

Obviously, MSP was NW's headquarters but I thought DTW eclipsed MSP in terms of cities served and departures a while ago, no?

Just last year, however MSP still sees about equal mainline flights to DTW and still has more capacity, though I think that will change given DL/NW's commitment to growing DTW (despite its poor O&D and economy) and lack thereof at MSP.

Jeremy


User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10457 times:

i can imagine both SLC and MSP being excellent connection points for BigSky and the Upper Great Plains, so instead of splitting MSP and DTW, why not just do SLC-HNL and DTW-HNL?

SLC-HNL, DTW-HNL, and ATL-HNL looks like a very well balanced combination of non-west-coast flights to Hawaii and should be sufficient to make *most* people happy.

The usefulness of a daily flight from each should outweigh the inconvenience of people from *really* small town airports having to do a 2-stop before reaching Hawaii. We don't need 1-stop service for every single tiny rural airport in this country!


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10415 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
It bothers me to consistently see MSP losing service while DTW gains, often at MSP's expense when for so long NW's largest hub was MSP, as well as largest O&D market.

Times have changed. The needs of DL are changing. MSP will still have more service to HNL than DTW, so what's the big deal?



"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

Nice to finally see DTW-HNL back online. I was hoping NW would do for years. Too bad it looks like it came at the expense of MSP though. I think both cities could support daily HNL service, or 5/6 weekly, especially with the 767 now available to the network. IMO, going back to daily between them is still under serving the market.

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 5):
Does anyone get the feeling that MSP and DTW cannibalize each other?

They haven't for decades, so I don't see how they could be.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Am I missing something here? What connections can they get at DTW that they can't at MSP or ATL? And certainly the O&D market for a rather long flight from what is possibly the country's most economically depressed city to a leisure destination can't be more attractive than MSP can it? Does this possibly have something to do with aircraft rotations or airport capacity?

I don't think different connections are the primary factor. I think the market deserves it. I even believe that there's enough demand to support even more than what has been announced. DL is simply spreading out the wealth, so to speak. They've taken some from ATL and MSP and given it to DTW. That way every hub and subsequent PAX gets a piece of the pie. If Hawaii is as popular in the DTW area as it is around MSP, it will do just fine.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
MSP is losing the daily service? It has been in place a long time.

MSP lost the daily service in late August. It dropped to 5/weekly then, and 4/weekly shortly thereafter.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Enough to fill an A330 three times per week?

Sure. You can bet that the MSP-HNL flight is help filled by DTW. Now I bet we'll see a little of the opposite.


User currently offlineHaYnFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

I'm wondering if landing fees or cargo are influencing this decision at all. Does anyone know if either would be more favorable at DTW?


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10280 times:

Did anyone else see this sentence in the first paragraph of the news release and think it was an error?

Fair use excerpt:

"The new service marks the first time Delta has served Honolulu from San Diego and reinstates nonstop service from Detroit that had been discontinued in 2004."

Didn't Western fly SAN-HNL using DC-10s and didn't DL operate this service for some time after the DL/WA merger was completed?


User currently offlineDLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

Me thinks this we eventually replace the formerly daily MSP-HNL. Sad...


Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3262 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10189 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):

It bothers me to consistently see MSP losing service while DTW gains, often at MSP's expense when for so long NW's largest hub was MSP, as well as largest O&D market.



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 19):

Times have changed. The needs of DL are changing. MSP will still have more service to HNL than DTW, so what's the big deal?

DTW is better suited to serve the core of the combined DL/NW network simply due to its geographic location. Its not a knock on the historically MORE profitable MSP hub. It is simply a recognition that the DL network is different than the NW network and the hubs will play different roles.

Its not a competition.


25 SurfandSnow : It's definitely exciting to see the opportunities that this DL/NW merger has created. Both DL and NW have been prominent players to Hawaii over the ye
26 PSU.DTW.SCE : That is very true. DL provides that much stronger presence on the East Coast. Pulling people from east coast markets to connect over DTW is much easi
27 CV880 : If Hawaii is so "low yield", put the A333's back on overseas flights, pull some of the 763ER's off international and reconfigure them to domestic hig
28 PanAm330 : Can't a 764 handle it? Didn't DL run the 764 on OGG-ATL before it was dropped? Maybe it was a 763.
29 Jetlanta : The issue here is that Hawaii ISN'T low yield. That hasn't be true for years. There is a reason you've seen so much capacity going into Hawaii in rec
30 OA412 : I think it just has to do with scheduling more than anything else since all 764s have been transferred to TATL service. However, as you mention, the
31 CV880 : That's been my contention for the past year, but it seems others disagree on Hawaii yields. I disagree with respect to DL's capacity into Hawaii, as
32 Viscount724 : Yes, that press release statement that this is the first time Delta has served HNL from SAN is totally wrong. For quite a few years after the Western
33 727forever : Try being from CVG.... I'm glad to see the '10 schedule coming about. With all of the draw downs on long haul flying this winter I've been wondering
34 Timz : It was.
35 CV880 : DL ran the 763ER ATL-OGG-ATL a few years back. The only other bird that might be able to do the same would be the 777 (a waste of airplane). The 764'
36 727forever : I am not sure if I am arguing with you as I realize that ATL-OGG-ATL is not ATL-HNL-ATL, but DL indeed ran the 764ER on that route up until about a y
37 Ha763 : The yield is lower than other markets with higher premium demand, so that automatically makes it low yield in many people's mind. However, to counter
38 MAH4546 : All this talk of Hawaii capacity and profits, let's not forget mainland-Hawai'i capacity fell off a cliff in 2008, more than 25%.
39 CV880 : Yes and so has Hawaii's economy (tourism), because of it. Yes DL ran 2x daily 764's ATL-HNL in the summer and seemed to have good load factors. A big
40 DL747400 : Thanks, I'm glad to know that I wasn't going nuts. I thought I remembered the DC-10 service on this route well into 1987 and then later the L-1011s.
41 DiscoverCSG : Thanks for the link. However, I got a kick out of this line in the press release: "Service may be operated by Delta Connection carrier SkyWest Airline
42 Timz : He just meant the 764 would struggle to do OGG-ATL nonstop; HNL-ATL should be easy. Like he said, it lasted for some years after 1991.
43 SANFan : Somebody sure didn't do their research for that PR did they? Delta actually ended SAN-HNL in 1995, after almost 25 years of continual nonstop service
44 SNCntry32 : I dont think this is a sign that MSP is loosing any flying, its just a sing of the times and Delta's commitment to 'right size' everything. MSP and DT
45 Burnsie28 : There are far more snow birds in MSP looking to get away to Hawaii than the Michigan area.
46 Jetlanta : Oh yeah? Where's your data? Would it be Minnesota's 5 million people vs. Michigan's 10 million?
47 Slcdeltarumd11 : I don't think DL is looking at that at all. The focus of DTW seems to be for a connecting airport not O&D and I think this flight is no exception. I
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : Anytime DL does something different from the status quo, everyone is quick to jump all over them. Particularly people who have no access to the data,
49 413x3 : Quoting an executive of a company run into the ground by bad management? Genius!
50 Jetlanta : Really don't get the point, do you?
51 LAXtoATL : It went right over his head!
52 MSPNWA : I don't know if precise data is needed for one aspect of the statement - Minnesota and the surrounding area are fans of Hawaii. NW's flights to HNL o
53 SNCntry32 : There are 3 destinations in Mexico IIRC that DL does not serve from ATL but serve from MSP seasonally... Minnesotans dont take escaping the cold ligh
54 BMI727 : Two big players going out of business tends to have that effect. Then the economy shrunk the hole that was left and I think that we are seeing a corr
55 Post contains links SANFan : Further support of your statement is being discussed in the new thread about CO's new Hawaii service: New - CO Announcing SNA-OGG (by AznMadSci Dec 4
56 Deltal1011man : ZIH,ZLO, and MZT but IIRC DL does codeshare on the year round flights on AS via LAX. (BTW are any(I almost sure ZIH is) citys that DL has been outsou
57 Flighty : Costa Rican cities, as well. True. A WHQ hub always has a certain degree of excess and fluff because of the "flagship hub" aspect. Every airline is g
58 ThreeIfByAir : On SEA-Hawaii, AS has been really ramping up capacity. DL, even though it is an AS partner, does not command the same degree of loyalty (near fanatic
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