September11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 23 Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8023 times:
19 years ago today, 2 Northwest Airilnes jetliners - one a DC-9-10 and the other a 727-200 - collided on a fog-covered runway. 8 people aboard the DC-9 plane died.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7956 times:
Wow, 19 years ago!! I remember that incident and saw company video of the DC-9 in the hangar. The 727 wing impacted below the DC-9 F/O window. The industry gained a lot of new regulations from that incident.
The tail cone failed to release.
The DC-9 Captain returned from a leave of absence (not sure how extended).
Improved taxiway & runway identification, lighting and signage.
Recognition of improving Ground Radar technology, not sure if this particular accident brought it to us given the pissing contest between the NTSB & FAA.
I cannot imagine the thought, confusion, fear and questioning that went through the flight crew mind when they saw one another on the runway. Gives me chills.
While each lose of life was horrific, this accident had the potential of a higher fatality rate.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2736 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7860 times:
I was just moving at that time. The person that bought our house was on that DC-9. He chose a random seat because of light loads, but the guy who was assigned the seat he was sitting in made him move. The guy who wanted his assigned seat died in the crash, the one that bought our house broke both ankles evacuating.
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3139 posts, RR: 14 Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7724 times:
The captain of of the 727, NW299, was a friend of my dad's - they were both hired in the same class at NW. After a few months in court (totally ridiculous) he went back to flight status and went on to retire off the 747-400.
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7425 times:
Thanks for that update Transpac. Have to love the second guessing. I sure the cockpit crew tossed around ideas for days before calling the evac.
Nwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 844 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7337 times:
The tail cone did not release because when the flight attendant opened the the bulkhead hatch, a passenger jumped in and broke the tail cone release handle before the flight attendant could release the tail cone. Both died in the tail cone area.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7273 times:
For what is worth the N numbers were
N3313L on the DC9 model10, built for DL
and I think without looking, N278US for the 727-200 built for NW in the mid 70's.
The nine was written off but the three holer had the wingtip fixed and was put back into service around the summer of 91. I remember seeing it in August of 91 at DTW taxiing.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1613 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7173 times:
Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 7): The tail cone did not release because when the flight attendant opened the the bulkhead hatch, a passenger jumped in and broke the tail cone release handle before the flight attendant could release the tail cone. Both died in the tail cone
Don't forget it was also brought out that the "drop" check was never accomplished by maintenance in heavy check as it was supposed to.
NWA757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 662 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6716 times:
Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 7): The tail cone did not release because when the flight attendant opened the the bulkhead hatch, a passenger jumped in and broke the tail cone release handle before the flight attendant could release the tail cone. Both died in the tail cone area.
Now, I heard that the tailcone failed to jettison partly due to it was freshly painted and the tailcone had not been jettisoned by mx after being painted to see if it would jettison (routine mx) The paint made the tailcone stick to the fuselage. Could be true or partly true, I know after this incident, some changes were made to the tailcone release procedures, as far as two release handles in the tailcone area and more frequent jettisoning of the tailcone during mx checks.
Nwarooster From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 844 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6504 times:
Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 7):
The tail cone did not release because when the flight attendant opened the the bulkhead hatch, a passenger jumped in and broke the tail cone release handle before the flight attendant could release the tail cone. Both died in the tail cone
Don't forget it was also brought out that the "drop" check was never accomplished by maintenance in heavy check as it was supposed to.
You are correct. It was pencil whipped.
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 8): For what is worth the N numbers were
N3313L on the DC9 model10, built for DL
and I think without looking, N278US for the 727-200 built for NW in the mid 70's.
The nine was written off but the three holer had the wingtip fixed and was put back into service around the summer of 91. I remember seeing it in August of 91 at DTW taxiing.
safe
The 727 had a replacement wing installed by Boeing at DTW.
747buff From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6357 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): The DC-9 Captain returned from a leave of absence (not sure how extended).
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According to the NTSB report, the DC-9 Capt. was ex-Republic and had recently returned from a six-year-long medical leave. This flight was also one of his first (don't remember exactly how many) unsupervised trips after returning to flight status.
Deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1589 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5623 times:
Did the DC-9 catch fire? I was under impression it did not, how did the flight attendant and passenger die ? Not to gross everyone out, but those sitting on the side of the plane the wing sliced through died by decapitation. I thought plane didn't catch fire thought and those who were still living and not seated on that side of the plane evacuated normally.
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5356 times:
Quoting 747buff (Reply 18): the DC-9 Capt. was ex-Republic and had recently returned from a six-year-long medical leave
- I have never heard of an ATP returning to work after six years off on medical. Do ATPs take the same medical examines that private pilots do in the U.S.? What all did this Captain have to do to get back to flying?
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
Derik737 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 331 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4592 times:
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 20): Did the DC-9 catch fire? I was under impression it did not, how did the flight attendant and passenger die ? Not to gross everyone out, but those sitting on the side of the plane the wing sliced through died by decapitation. I thought plane didn't catch fire thought and those who were still living and not seated on that side of the plane evacuated normally.
Yes, 14 feet of the 727's right wing was ripped off by the collision. The sparks created a fire in the DC-9.
I was there that day working for Mesaba. It was quite eerie as where they collided was a location where there could have been a DHC-8 and 757 collision in the fog as well due to ATC telling me to cross the center runway without delay in the fog. Luckily I saw the lights through the fog of the 757 and slammed on the brakes with full reverse.
This accident also led to changes of the airport taxi/runway signage at DTW.
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5671 posts, RR: 29 Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4410 times:
Text from the first photo on reply 15...
"N3313L (cn 45708/77) Collided with company B727 (N278US) in dense fog at DTW on December 3, 1990. The B727 was on its takeoff roll and the DC9 had just taxied onto the active runway. The B727 was substantially damaged and the DC9 was destroyed by fire (12 k). This aircraft was towed to YIP, stored, and when I caught it, was being broken up. Look at the gash under the flight deck where the 727's wing ripped into it. "
How did they tow it to YIP? That is seven miles or so by road. Did they drag it down I-94?
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4267 times:
To think, the 727s are long gone, and the DC-9s remain (for quite some time, too)....
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3437 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 22): I have never heard of an ATP returning to work after six years off on medical. Do ATPs take the same medical examines that private pilots do in the U.S.? What all did this Captain have to do to get back to flying?
A pilot can lose their medical for a number of reason and return at a later date. In fact, this is common. I knew a coupld of guys who had some form of cancer and once they were in remission for a number of years their medicals were reinstated. The same airline had a couple of guys with heart attacks and they were out for a year or two.
Does ALPA still over the disability insurance for lost medicals?
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2037 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
Many people forget that seven years almost to the day before this collision, there was a very similar collision between a DC-9 and a 727, at MAD. In both accidents, a DC-9 strayed onto an active runway, and was hit by a 727 accelerating for takeoff. The one big difference: at MAD, everyone on the DC-9, and about half the people on the 727, were killed.
Most of the passengers on both aircraft involved in the DTW accident are very, very fortunate!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3083 times:
Quoting Nwarooster (Reply 17): The 727 had a replacement wing installed by Boeing at DTW.
The NTSB report says Boeing's estimated repair cost for the 727 was $4.85 million..
Quoting 747buff (Reply 18): According to the NTSB report, the DC-9 Capt. was ex-Republic and had recently returned from a six-year-long medical leave. This flight was also one of his first (don't remember exactly how many) unsupervised trips after returning to flight status.
Thee NTSB report says it was his first unsupervised flight after returning from medical leave.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
Quoting Falstaff (Reply 15): How did they tow it to YIP? That is seven miles or so by road. Did they drag it down I-94?
In the wee hours of the morning when traffic was sparse. The wings, engines and fuselege were not intacted when transported. This is what I was told by someone "who knew".
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
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