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Can Airbus 330-200 Do PHL To NRT Nonstop  
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

Hypothetically if US wanted to start service to NRT or even China, could the A332 do it?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9723 times:
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The latest 238 tonner might give it a go...

PHL-NRT is 5 870Nm
The 238t A332 will carry 60k lb payload at 7 000Nm air range, and 70k lb payload at 6 500Nm air range.
That does mean it would be payload limited, to some degree of course.

Whether US's existing A332's could is a different question, I guess...

Rgds


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9723 times:

If they did, I think it would be the longest scheduled route on the 332 ever. Qantas AKL-LAX at 5,652nm is the previous 332 winner I believe. Don't know, but will be tight.


The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39831 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9310 times:

What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9080 times:



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.

I wonder what happens to that route authority they never used. Will anyone want it?



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1763 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8863 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):


Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.

I wonder what happens to that route authority they never used. Will anyone want it?

They had been trying to defer starting the PHL-PEK flight even longer, and the DOT denied their petition. Its up to anyone to apply for it, and no point in US looking to lease the A340s now. Incidentally the issue with PEK was not finding the planes, but significantly weaker demand after the global recession began.


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8753 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 5):
Incidentally the issue with PEK was not finding the planes, but significantly weaker demand after the global recession began.

In any case, this thread has a reasonable question. I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too. For cargo loads, if nothing else.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

I woulld think US, or anyone else would want to provide a good cargo lift capability on any US East Coast route to PEK.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
PHL-NRT is 5 870Nm
The 238t A332 will carry 60k lb payload at 7 000Nm air range, and 70k lb payload at 6 500Nm air range.
That does mean it would be payload limited, to some degree of course.

But, isn't that great circle milage? I thought both the A-330 and B-777s had to fly a slightly longer route to comply with 207 ETOPS?


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8601 times:

You can enter the ETOPS restrictions in the great circle mapper.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=p...NGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=60

Even set at ETOPS 60 looks like you are OK on this route so normal ETOPS times should be no problem unless you have to fly a very different route.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineCrjflyer35 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8159 times:

How would this affect PHX into the forray? Since NRT was announced as a possibilty, I've been excited that PHX may finally start getting US widebodies. I figured the weight reduction would be as harsh as PHL-NRT. According to Great Circle Mapper PHX-NRT is over 800 nm shorter than PHL-NRT. Or is the fact that PHX is so close to LAS and SFO that there would be too much overlap in demand?

Any of the other PHX US rampers care to weigh in? Dan, Peter?



Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.
User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

PHX is:
- Way to far south to be a convenient connection.
- Way too hot. Anecdotal evidence: LH was considering to resume the flights from MUC to PHX (similar distance) but noted it had to be a 343 due to weight restriction on a 332.

DLP


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6502 times:



Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too. For cargo loads, if nothing else.

Delta has never said a word about about modifying their A330's. All speculation about that has taken place on A net.


User currently offlineDLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6441 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
All speculation about that has taken place on A net.

Isn't Delta (like most other airlines) run by A.net armchair CEOs?


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6203 times:



Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 12):
Isn't Delta (like most other airlines) run by A.net armchair CEOs?

Won't comment on that, as young tender ears may be listening.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6142 times:

Headwinds into Japan can be brutal, and can kick up long after the flight has already departed.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9317 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6080 times:



Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 10):

IIRC US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011.



yep.
User currently offlinePacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

The current nominal range of an A332 equals that of 747-200 which have done JFK/EWR-NRT, a similar distance to PHL-NRT. With the A332HGW, its nominal range takes it to 744 territory. Unless the A332 has a highly unfavourable payload-range curve versus a 742 at its range limit, the A332 should do fine, especially HGW/RR engine combination.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21502 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3581 times:



Quoting Pacific (Reply 16):
Unless the A332 has a highly unfavourable payload-range curve versus a 742 at its range limit, the A332 should do fine, especially HGW/RR engine combination.

The 747 does have a more favorable payload range curve, and it's a quad with different fuel reserve requirements.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3362 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
The 747 does have a more favorable payload range curve

The 747 becomes significantly fuel volume limited as it approaches its nominal range - something the A330-200 will NEVER suffer from..

Rgds


User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3296 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
IIRC US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011

Originally US said that it anticipated starting NRT no sooner than 2012. With the deferral in deliveries of the A332s, I would not expect to see US in NRT any before 2014.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5240 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3114 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011.

I'm unsure of the date but, yes, US did say that they intended to use the authority from DL to begin PHX-NRT.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
Whether US's existing A332's could is a different question, I guess...

Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

Paging our resident RR expert PM... Big grin



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9317 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2998 times:



Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 19):
Originally US said that it anticipated starting NRT no sooner than 2012. With the deferral in deliveries of the A332s, I would not expect to see US in NRT any before 2014.

oh sorry for the date.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

I believe the RR Trents have more thrust, If that is they went with the highest thrust for type for the Trent 700s.



yep.
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2837 times:
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Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

That's a good question. If you look at the quote below..

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too

Zeke posted somewhere that the 238t MTOW is retrofittable to existing A330-200's delivered from 2002 onwards.
Flighty's post seems to support the ability to increase MTOW on existing frames.

Of course an airline that does that has to be able to power this weight growth too, and I believe the Trent 700 to be currently the most thrust capable engine on the airframe. So it might well make a difference..  Smile

Rgds


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