Can Airbus 330-200 Do PHL To NRT Nonstop — Civil Aviation Forum

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Can Airbus 330-200 Do PHL To NRT Nonstop

Deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1589 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8664 times:

Hypothetically if US wanted to start service to NRT or even China, could the A332 do it?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last

Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9135 posts, RR: 96
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8574 times:

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The latest 238 tonner might give it a go...

PHL-NRT is 5 870Nm
The 238t A332 will carry 60k lb payload at 7 000Nm air range, and 70k lb payload at 6 500Nm air range.
That does mean it would be payload limited, to some degree of course.

Whether US's existing A332's could is a different question, I guess...

Rgds

71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8574 times:

If they did, I think it would be the longest scheduled route on the 332 ever. Qantas AKL-LAX at 5,652nm is the previous 332 winner I believe. Don't know, but will be tight.

The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY

Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38485 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8161 times:

What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.

Bring back the Concorde

SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7931 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.

I wonder what happens to that route authority they never used. Will anyone want it?

Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!

OP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1678 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
What ever happened to US Airways A340-300 proposed lease until they get the A350/787?

Sorry but I've been out of the loop on this one.

I wonder what happens to that route authority they never used. Will anyone want it?

They had been trying to defer starting the PHL-PEK flight even longer, and the DOT denied their petition. Its up to anyone to apply for it, and no point in US looking to lease the A340s now. Incidentally the issue with PEK was not finding the planes, but significantly weaker demand after the global recession began.

Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7429 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7604 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 5):
Incidentally the issue with PEK was not finding the planes, but significantly weaker demand after the global recession began.

In any case, this thread has a reasonable question. I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too. For cargo loads, if nothing else.

KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

I woulld think US, or anyone else would want to provide a good cargo lift capability on any US East Coast route to PEK.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
PHL-NRT is 5 870Nm
The 238t A332 will carry 60k lb payload at 7 000Nm air range, and 70k lb payload at 6 500Nm air range.
That does mean it would be payload limited, to some degree of course.

But, isn't that great circle milage? I thought both the A-330 and B-777s had to fly a slightly longer route to comply with 207 ETOPS?

71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

You can enter the ETOPS restrictions in the great circle mapper.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=p...NGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=60

Even set at ETOPS 60 looks like you are OK on this route so normal ETOPS times should be no problem unless you have to fly a very different route.

The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY

Crjflyer35 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 667 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7010 times:

How would this affect PHX into the forray? Since NRT was announced as a possibilty, I've been excited that PHX may finally start getting US widebodies. I figured the weight reduction would be as harsh as PHL-NRT. According to Great Circle Mapper PHX-NRT is over 800 nm shorter than PHL-NRT. Or is the fact that PHX is so close to LAS and SFO that there would be too much overlap in demand?

Any of the other PHX US rampers care to weigh in? Dan, Peter?

Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.

DLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

PHX is:
- Way to far south to be a convenient connection.
- Way too hot. Anecdotal evidence: LH was considering to resume the flights from MUC to PHX (similar distance) but noted it had to be a 343 due to weight restriction on a 332.

DLP

Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too. For cargo loads, if nothing else.

Delta has never said a word about about modifying their A330's. All speculation about that has taken place on A net.

DLPhoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):
All speculation about that has taken place on A net.

Isn't Delta (like most other airlines) run by A.net armchair CEOs?

Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 12):
Isn't Delta (like most other airlines) run by A.net armchair CEOs?

Won't comment on that, as young tender ears may be listening.

Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4993 times:

Headwinds into Japan can be brutal, and can kick up long after the flight has already departed.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8576 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Quoting DLPhoenix (Reply 10):

IIRC US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011.

"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.

Pacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1032 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

The current nominal range of an A332 equals that of 747-200 which have done JFK/EWR-NRT, a similar distance to PHL-NRT. With the A332HGW, its nominal range takes it to 744 territory. Unless the A332 has a highly unfavourable payload-range curve versus a 742 at its range limit, the A332 should do fine, especially HGW/RR engine combination.

Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting Pacific (Reply 16):
Unless the A332 has a highly unfavourable payload-range curve versus a 742 at its range limit, the A332 should do fine, especially HGW/RR engine combination.

The 747 does have a more favorable payload range curve, and it's a quad with different fuel reserve requirements.

Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.

Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9135 posts, RR: 96
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
The 747 does have a more favorable payload range curve

The 747 becomes significantly fuel volume limited as it approaches its nominal range - something the A330-200 will NEVER suffer from..

Rgds

FutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 761 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
IIRC US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011

Originally US said that it anticipated starting NRT no sooner than 2012. With the deferral in deliveries of the A332s, I would not expect to see US in NRT any before 2014.

OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4978 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 15):
US said with the NRT slots they are getting from delta they will start PHX-NRT with a 332 in 2011.

I'm unsure of the date but, yes, US did say that they intended to use the authority from DL to begin PHX-NRT.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
Whether US's existing A332's could is a different question, I guess...

Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

Paging our resident RR expert PM... Big grin

Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West

DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8576 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 19):
Originally US said that it anticipated starting NRT no sooner than 2012. With the deferral in deliveries of the A332s, I would not expect to see US in NRT any before 2014.

oh sorry for the date.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

I believe the RR Trents have more thrust, If that is they went with the highest thrust for type for the Trent 700s.

"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.

Astuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9135 posts, RR: 96
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Well unlike their A333's the A332's are RR powered which IIRC does make a difference does it not?

That's a good question. If you look at the quote below..

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
I believe the answer is yes. DL has mentioned increasing the gross weight of their A330 fleet and I expect US will too

Zeke posted somewhere that the 238t MTOW is retrofittable to existing A330-200's delivered from 2002 onwards.
Flighty's post seems to support the ability to increase MTOW on existing frames.

Of course an airline that does that has to be able to power this weight growth too, and I believe the Trent 700 to be currently the most thrust capable engine on the airframe. So it might well make a difference.. Smile

Rgds

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