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Another A380 Incident  
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 30284 times:

QF A380 at LHR had to be towed to the apron after the nose gear steering failed. Is it just me or are there too many issues happening with the A380 relative to the number of them in the sky? This is following the AF A380 that had to turn back to JFK earlier this week due to autopilot failure in flight...

http://avherald.com/h?article=423adfc8&opt=1

I love the A380, but I'm starting to worry that small incidents are happening a little too often... It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

What do you guys think?


...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 17 hours ago) and read 30326 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
Is it just me or are there too many issues happening with the A380 relative to the number of them in the sky?

Its just you. The A380 is well ahead of where the A340 and 777 were at a similar point in their introduction to service.

NS


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 30164 times:

Just for comparison I've just had a new kitchen installed and you have no idea of the number of problems I've been having with it. Drawers not closing properly, handles wobbling etc.

Anything new will have problems and like my kitchen it takes time for things to get sorted out. The A380 is brand new, at the front of the game and it's gigantic. Naturally there are going to be problems.

Let's let it bed in.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 30143 times:

Just some weeks ago, there was a thread with exact numbers about the dispatch reliabilty here on a.net but I didn't find it so quickly. Even Airbus stated that it's not yet there where it should be.

You find more numbers in this article:
http://www.flightglobal.com/page/A38...80-In-Service-Report-Into-service/

Quote:
SIA now has 10 A380s - more than the number of passenger Boeing 747-400s it has in operation. Its A380 fleet's average daily utilisation is about 14h, while technical dispatch reliability (TDR) is "hovering around 97-98%", says Sirisena.



Quote:
The industry's typical technical dispatch reliability benchmark is above 98.5%, and Clark says that while Airbus is guaranteeing 98.5% "we're not there yet. We're at 97%, sometimes 96%."



User currently offlineMetroliner From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 1067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 30135 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

More ironic you should recommend this name at this point in time, since it was the nose gear steering that failed  Wink



Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
User currently offlineRcair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1317 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 29725 times:
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CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT



Quoting Babybus (Reply 2):
Just for comparison I've just had a new kitchen installed and you have no idea of the number of problems I've been having with it. Drawers not closing properly, handles wobbling etc.

You should get a new contractor. Did the same - did not have problems (major remodel).

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
Its just you. The A380 is well ahead of where the A340 and 777 were at a similar point in their introduction to service.

I'd love to see this type of data on this - where can you find it? Yes - I know this is a quote out of the article - but that doesn't hold a lot of water for me these days.

---- From the article ----
Clark says that the problem with the nuisance warnings has been their diverse nature, but "the common thread" is the software. He says Airbus executive vice-president programmes Tom Williams and his team "have sat in my office many times and said they can't identify trends, which is the worst possible thing".

Clark blames the software's design. "There was a philosophy of utopia - I suspect that Airbus was blessed with some boffins who said 'we've got to make this absolutely perfect - no flexibility'. The slightest surge causes one [sensor] to trip and then six more as they're all linked," he says
--- End ---
As someone who has written and shipped software ranging from million-line + cad systems to simple embedded firmware - this is actually somewhat frightening to me...
and
"...and said they can't identify trends"
I'm surprised they made this kind of statement.



rcair1
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 16 hours ago) and read 29692 times:



Quoting Rcair1 (Reply 6):
I'd love to see this type of data on this - where can you find it?

You really sorta have to take the word of SQ on that one, I would guess, since that's their proprietary data.

I tend to listen when Singapore Airlines, who discarded the MD-11 and the A340-300 without a second thought, speaks on technical points.

NS


User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 28963 times:

not that it's really all that relevant to the specific structure of the A380 (could've happened to any a/c, but another A388 incident at LHR today....

http://avherald.com/h?article=423af477&opt=1



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 28949 times:

Isn't she the same aircraft that had a nose gear failure, at LHR, in July?


"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 28863 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 8):
not that it's really all that relevant to the specific structure of the A380 (could've happened to any a/c, but another A388 incident at LHR today....

Could you also list all the other aircraft incidents at LHR today? Bet there were actually a whole bunch.  Smile

NS


User currently offlineLHRlocal From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 28426 times:



Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 9):
Isn't she the same aircraft that had a nose gear failure, at LHR, in July?

I was thinking that, exact same thing happened. Same incident reported late or a whole new one? - link to video of July incident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hRCvyj6O8g


User currently offlineLeothedog From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 27821 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
I love the A380, but I'm starting to worry that small incidents are happening a little too often... It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

I don't know how acurate this is, but I'll admit it: I Laughed Out Loud when I read it.



I've got things to see and people to do.
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 27399 times:
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Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
I love the A380, but I'm starting to worry that small incidents are happening a little too often... It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

Don't think so somehow.
But you will definitely get traction with such an unguarded comment.
Sadly

Rgds


User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 26942 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):

http://avherald.com/h?article=423adfc8&opt=1

Take that website with a pinch of salt.

Yes, they have some good details on there, and the guy that runs it is professional, but it is not an official database of incidents, so you cannot rely on it in that way. Anyone can write in with an incident, which he will then investigate, and publish.


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1060 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 26819 times:

Is it possible its just this air frame or the fact its Air France's first airframe?

User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 26628 times:



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
But you will definitely get traction with such an unguarded comment.

So what... I'm making a joke and that's all it is. I don't hate or bash the A380 because I think it's a marvelous plane.

Quoting SolarFlyer22 (Reply 15):
Is it possible its just this air frame or the fact its Air France's first airframe?

Umm... Well this thread really had to do with Qantas, not Air France.. but AF has had a few issues with their A380 as well.....

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 10):
Could you also list all the other aircraft incidents at LHR today? Bet there were actually a whole bunch.  

No, not specifically I cannot. Can you? I imagine there probably were a couple happenings, but not as many as you'd think. EIther way, I'm not saying this is that only thing that happened, but its the only one posted on avherald.



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineMultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 26627 times:

Not unusual when a new type is introduced. Air Canada's E-jets were nicknamed the E-180's after their recent introduction as they returned to the gate so often.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19575 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 26394 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 2):
Just for comparison I've just had a new kitchen installed and you have no idea of the number of problems I've been having with it. Drawers not closing properly, handles wobbling etc.

OK, but that can't kill you. A lack of nosegear steering can kill you under certain circumstances... like landing.


User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 26028 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
OK, but that can't kill you. A lack of nosegear steering can kill you under certain circumstances... like landing.

Gas burners and electrical installations can kill someone. They can actually burn a whole house down.

The thing is that every new system, every new design always has teething problems. That's just the way it is. And the more ground-breaking the new design is, the more teething problems it will have.

The only thing we can hope for is that Airbus are able to correct, repair, modify their airplanes so that these problems disappear. If those issues are not solved, it will ruin the plane's reputation and that is just destructive. Look what it did to the MD-11 !



Cheers
User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 25988 times:

The A380 is still having teething problems, this is normal for a new entry airframe. I would look at dispatch numbers after the airlines have put some milage on them, and fleet exceed 100 units. A new airframe is not like a new car gentlemen, these are extremely complex beast.


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlinePeterSpence From United States of America, joined May 2009, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 25268 times:

The A380 is simply wonderful ... after 3 flights on it this year and another coming up in 2 weeks--all on Qantas from LAX-SYD-LAX--the plane is absolutely fine. I think too many are just a little too sensitive to any fault that comes up with it. Sorta like how everyone attacked regional Pilot experience across the board after the Colgan crash earlier this year. Long live the A380!


N94838
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 24836 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
Is it just me or are there too many issues happening with the A380 relative to the number of them in the sky?

Its just you. The A380 is well ahead of where the A340 and 777 were at a similar point in their introduction to service.

And going back 40 years,, the 747 suffered from a huge number of delays and cancellations during the first year or so of service, although those problems were mainly rleated to the early P&W Jt9D engines which probably could have benefited from another 6 months or so of development before going into service. But Boeing wanted to meet the original December 1969 delivery date promised to Pan Am when they placed the launch order for the 747 in 1966.

Even Pan Am's inaugural 747 flight JFK-LHR in January 1970 was delayed a few hours as they had to substitute another aircraft for the one planned due to engine-related problems.


User currently offlineAirproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 635 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 23993 times:



Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 5):

Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
Is it just me or are there too many issues happening with the A380 relative to the number of them in the sky?

It's you. The A380 is just the latest aircraft under the microscope..

Indeed, the A380 is under every lights right now. But considering the fact that there are only a few planes in operation at this time, it seems there's a lot of problems for a plane that is claimed to be a "reference" in every way...
We all know that every brand new plane, like a car, or even a kitchen  Wink comes with its bunch of issues. I think some of us don't feel quiet comfortable with that, looking at the Airbus history, and the introduction of the A320. Ask the question to an AF or ex-Air Inter pilot, and he'll tell you how well the A320 was tested and prepared BEFORE its introduction into a fleet... (that's ironic obviously!)

Facts? Figures posted by N14AZ are interesting;

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):

The industry's typical technical dispatch reliability benchmark is above 98.5%, and Clark says that while Airbus is guaranteeing 98.5% "we're not there yet. We're at 97%, sometimes 96%."

Now the question is, to compare, how did the 777 behave at its launch?

Cheers,
Dave



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 23804 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
I love the A380, but I'm starting to worry that small incidents are happening a little too often... It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

that´s not very original, it has been said before to the Embraer 190, it was called E-180......

Now everything regarding A380 it is new news but the number of problems in B777, A340, B747....... are countless everyday.

And we will discuss the same with the new B787 and A350


User currently offlineCptSpeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 8 hours ago) and read 23769 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
It's almost as if it should be re-named to the A3(180) as it often makes a 180 degree turn right back to the gate or departure airport.......

What do you guys think?

 bigthumbsup   highfive 

I like it! Even if not completely accurate, it's still funny Big grin



...and don't call me Shirley!!
25 Panman : Actually both incidents did indeed happen yesterday morning (4th December) at Heathrow so that website is giving factual information.
26 474218 : Not true, a report is written on every occurrence, so they can and are counted. The real problem with the A380 is that there are so few in service, e
27 Glideslope : Every new airframe has plenty of teething issues. However, the 380's nose gear does seem a little disproportionate to other frames, no? Lot's of weigh
28 Razza : An aircraft as technically complicated as this is bound to have a few issues in its infancy. 97% dispatch efficiency is impressive in my view when you
29 JBirdAV8r : Incorrect. Dispatch reliability from mid-1995 to 1998 for the 777 was 99.96% according to Modern Boeing Jetliners (Norris/Wagner 1999) That said, the
30 Swiftski : Actually during landing there is enough airflow for the rudder to control direction on the runway. Nosegear steering is used to get off the runway at
31 Zkpilot : Actually long stage lengths tend to work positively to dispatch rates as most problems occur on the ground (mostly during startup). Once an aircraft
32 PHKLM : There are hundreds of technical issues every day with airplanes all around the world, ranging from very minor to a MEL item requiring an equipment or
33 Swiftski :
34 Gipsy : Actually long stage lengths tend to work positively to dispatch rates as most problems occur on the ground (mostly during startup). I dont't think so
35 Traindoc : The A380 is the most complex of any jetliner, Airbus or Boeing, including the 787. To build one takes 7 (seven) times the man hours required to build
36 Birdbrainz : No. There's procedure for that. My father had it happen on landing on his 727 captain's checkride. No big deal.
37 FlyASAGuy2005 : No it just perception. There are procedures for many issues; doesn't mean it isn't a big deal. Not saying this is though.
38 Rivet42 : You could get a job with a tabloid newspaper! Indeed, although the better comparison will be with the 787 - no doubt its EIS (Entry Into Service) wil
39 BrouAviation : I'm sorry, but I fail to see why needing many man hours to build an aircraft is an excuse for a low dispatch reliability. And the airlines with me, I
40 Ikramerica : No it's not. The 777 dispatch reliability was higher 2 years after EIS. I don't get this. How can it be "sometimes 96%." It's an average that gets mo
41 Zeke : Why have people posted posted the dispatcher reliability of the 777 fleet at AA being 96% ? Why have airlines like CX grounded 777s due to engine iss
42 Aesma : My post got deleted because another was, I don't remember it being in violation of the rules (certainly the part I quoted was not) but anyway, I put i
43 BrouAviation : I agree. Well, your signature says it all.
44 474218 : Just the opposite. If you have a one aircraft that does 12 or 14 hour flights you can only make say 10 flights a week. If just one (1) of those fligh
45 Aesma : Yeah I searched that yesterday and found out that dispatch rates were a function of number of flights and not flight hours so the A380 is at a disadva
46 MrSkyGuy : This thread still makes me chuckle.. so many aircraft have dealt with EIS issues long before the A380 was even dreamt of. How quickly we forget. When
47 Hloutweg : Plus, we do have to consider, as previously mentioned, the stage lenth; as it's very likely that the number of flights achieved by a smaller airplane
48 LY777 : Same for me I was willing to fly an AF A380 to JFK, but with all the recent incidents, I am starting to worry...There are too many incidents: we are
49 474218 : Its hard to read but the information is available on Boeing web site under 777, Design and Testing page. I tried to link the page but it would not wo
50 Aesma : Well they're not really worrying in themselves. However, if being on schedule is very important to you (business trip) then maybe you should wait til
51 MrSkyGuy : I'll happily take your seat!
52 Ba777-236 : So what about Emirates? Their A380 has been coming to Toronto now for six months 3 times a week. Except for one time where they had engine troubles, I
53 Goldorak : and what about the hundreds or thousands of incidents/mechanical problems which happen everyday on any A/C type in the world ? Do you worry about the
54 FCA767 : Well Only since new airlines have come into play has the A380 seemed to have a few minor probs...Singapore has flown them well and I haven't heard on
55 Rivet42 : What??!! Are you kidding? Do you think the flight crew & cabin crew would go anywhere near it if there was any cause for concern? Remember that MD-11
56 Panman : Just scroll back up this thread a bit. It's been mentioned that the burst tire at Heathrow (which closed one of the runways) happened the same day as
57 Tdscanuck : Doing statistics off a single airframe is dodgy, but six months of 3 flights per week is ~80 flights. If one went bad, that's a dispatch reliability
58 Revelation : And it was said that Airbus used the 2 year delay to work on dispatch reliability, so we'll never know what it would have been without the wiring sna
59 JBirdAV8r : If no nosegear steering was a deadly problem, I never would have survived half my many hundreds of flights in aircraft with free-castering nosewheels
60 474218 : There was little Airbus could have done to improve dispatch reliability when the A380 were not in service. Some problems will show up during flight t
61 FCA767 : But it didn't go in the news so probably just replaced and back on it's way...I've never heard of a delay though or anything in the news with SQ
62 Revelation : I both agree and disagree. Clearly there is a category of customer found defects. And clearly every product known to man ships with known defects. Th
63 Ikramerica : There's really two ways to look at it. 1. 96-97% is pretty reliable in ghe grand scheme of things. Fokker100 anyone? 2. It's only 1/2 as reliable as t
64 Panman : The burst tire was in the news. The link is further up the thread. It's rare for the SQ A380 to leave on time at LHR. We usually have one aircraft pa
65 474218 : But what is causing its late departure, passenger loading, freight loading, ATC, weather or something mechanical/maintenace related? Only the mechani
66 Panman : Probably the same that we got for a few days........Aviance...........
67 FCA767 : sorry about that lol...I just love singapore airlines but still I never heard problems since hearing Emirates/Qantas...only just heard about singapor
68 Aeronut : someone who obviously knows what he is talking about.
69 Gipsy : 474218 we mean the same.... Sorry for bad quoting...thats not my text And thats my reply to the above... Rgds
70 Baroque : Fascinating and I guess logical too. You would sort of like it to be better than that, but once it is not, seems a logical enough way through the mia
71 RJ111 : Hmm....
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