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Potential Bidder Circling Sun Country Airlines  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 10
Posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

On October 2008 Sun Country filed for bankruptcy just days after its majority stockholder, Tom Petters, was arrested on fraud-related charges. Wednesday he was convicted of 20 fraud related charges. Someone has expressed interest in purchasing the airline. However no bid has been submitted as yet. The full writeup on this is below:

Courtesy: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Potential Bidder Circling Sun Country Airlines

http://www.startribune.com/business/...UoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5030 times:
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I'm not surprised.

I think Sun Country would be a good buy for someone, and probably a bit of a steal.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

So who would be intersted in SY, an LCC interested in opening up a focus city at MSP or another charter carrier looking at moving SY's assets elsewhere?


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineGlobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 929 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Wonder if it is just someone that wants to buy their certificate to start a new airline? Wasn't SY created by former Braniff I employees. I sure loved the original BN and its people! Those were the good ol' days!


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4736 times:
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Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 2):
So who would be intersted in SY, an LCC interested in opening up a focus city at MSP or another charter carrier looking at moving SY's assets elsewhere?

This article speculates on exactly that:

http://www.thedeal.com/corporatedeal...bidders_circling_sun_country_a.php

"But as we noted back in August, the Mendota Heights, Minn.-based airline could be an enticing target for a range of carriers including the two who battled for Frontier or other discounters like AirTran Airways Inc. "

It surely fits the bill for Southwest, as they have described it and I guess it's not impossible that Republic would be in there - they've said they're open to another acquisition, but they do have a lot on their plate at the moment.

I doubt it would be Airtran, for the reasons the article states, but you never know. It would certainly stir things up.

Mostly, I agree with the last line:

"But with airlines still out of favor due to a recession-induced drop off in travel, someone might be able to get Sun Country for a steal."

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Does not have to be an airline. Could very well be some of the equity partnerships or firms.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAviatortj From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4618 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Does not have to be an airline. Could very well be some of the equity partnerships or firms.

I hope this is the case. I fail to understand what SY has to offer in terms of assets besides a certificate and reserved flights. Any airline taking over would most likely absorb the brand which would be one of the biggest assets in the purchase. They need a new group to form a profitable business plan and run Sun Country as Sun Country instead of RP/WN.


User currently offlineOswegobag From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

I think WN is the "qualified" bidder and I think this for 3 main reasons.

1. The 737 fleet (self-explanatory there)

2. I personally feel WN is under a lot of pressure from it's stockholders to acquire another airline. Sun Country will be bought cheap and WN will use it as a "show" for stockholders after they lost Frontier to Republic.

3.I do not think Republic has any interest. I really believe they have their hands full with Midwest and Frontier. Also, MSP is geographically too close to MKE. Additionally, I do not think Republic would want to compete directly with Delta in MSP whereas Southwest would take Delta on.

Other's opinions?


User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

I don't think it is WN or even another airline. I could be wrong. My money is on an investment group, like MN Airlines Inc. L.L.C. who took over in 2002.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3944 times:



Quoting Oswegobag (Reply 7):
I think WN is the "qualified" bidder and I think this for 3 main reasons.

I think this is interesting mostly because I don't think of WN as buying airline but I guess they are the largest domestic career and one of the more healthy ones at that.

I am curious what you think WN would do with Sun Country's 738s? Could they be used for some route that WN doesn't currently operate? Being that WN aircraft are so interchangeable this can't be ideal. This could be an opportunity for WN to start a non-traditional route with an aircraft that has lower CASM which could offset the higher cost of start up. Perhaps something International or Hawaii. This will be rather interesting either way.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3869 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 9):


I am curious what you think WN would do with Sun Country's 738s?

They could test them for several months to see if they work, or phase them out relatively quickly if need be. It's not a large fleet we're talking about.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 9):


I think this is interesting mostly because I don't think of WN as buying airline

WN has bought two, Muse and Morris, and of course the recent attempt at F9. If they saw strategic value in Sun's assets they wouldn't hesitate to make an offer.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1307 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3738 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 10):
They could test them for several months to see if they work, or phase them out relatively quickly if need be. It's not a large fleet we're talking about.

Does Sun Country own their 737-800s?



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3732 times:



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 9):
I am curious what you think WN would do with Sun Country's 738s? Could they be used for some route that WN doesn't currently operate?

West Coast-Hawaii.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3727 times:



Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 11):
Does Sun Country own their 737-800s?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think most, if not all, of their aircraft are leased.


User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

All of SY planes are leased. The hanger, G.O and commissary are all leased or rented long term. All you would buy is SOC, and a hard working team of employees.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

I'm hoping for SY to find a good, stable ownership group that will continue the current business model. It would tough to lose their popular niche market.

User currently offlineBigsky09 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3344 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
It surely fits the bill for Southwest, as they have described it and I guess it's not impossible that Republic would be in there - they've said they're open to another acquisition, but they do have a lot on their plate at the moment

I think it is safe to say it defiently won't be Repulic. They have to much on there plate financially with Frontier and trying to turn them around. They also have Midwest, so RP is already in way over there head. I think WN is a good fit!


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3265 times:



Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 8):
I don't think it is WN or even another airline. I could be wrong. My money is on an investment group, like MN Airlines Inc. L.L.C. who took over in 2002.

Correct.

Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 13):
All of SY planes are leased. The hanger, G.O and commissary are all leased or rented long term. All you would buy is SOC, and a hard working team of employees.

Correct.

My M.B.A. capstone project (akin to a research project or thesis) was.... you guessed it, SY (actually a specific aspect of it). In fact, my team had a connection and submitted our work to SY's CEO at the time... who was ready to hire us as consultants... until he was canned  Smile



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1473 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3233 times:



Quoting TWFirst (Reply 17):
Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 13):
All of SY planes are leased. The hanger, G.O and commissary are all leased or rented long term. All you would buy is SOC, and a hard working team of employees.

Correct.

Really? I was doing research online a while back and I found this:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/S...untry%20Airlines-active-b737ng.htm

.... I'm not familiar with these sorts of listings but it looks to me that SY owns
N710SY, N711SY, N811SY, and N813SY with the others all showing "lsd ILFC"... so it looks as if they OWN two -700's and two -800's???



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3202 times:



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 18):
Really? I was doing research online a while back and I found this

That is not proof of ownership. They can be leased or financed via a number of sources



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3162 times:
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Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 8):
I don't think it is WN or even another airline. I could be wrong. My money is on an investment group, like MN Airlines Inc. L.L.C. who took over in 2002.

I think that is probably right. I think if it were one of the big airlines, we'd have heard something by now, although Southwest's bid for Frontier came at close to the last minute.

And even though I can see some advantages for them, I think it is unlikely to be Republic. Even though Frontier is consistently profitable, they have to bring Midwest to the same position.

Stranger things have happened, of course, but if it is an investment group - and if Sun Country is to be a stand alone - I hope the airline gets sufficient working capital from the deal.

I think CEO Gadek has done a great job at Sun Country - given the awful, unlucky hand he was dealt - and it would be interesting to see what he can do next.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

I doubt it is WN. I would think it is someone outside of the industry perhaps. I would love to see Sun Country grow.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3052 times:



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 18):
Really? I was doing research online a while back and I found this:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/S...untry%20Airlines-active-b737ng.htm

.... I'm not familiar with these sorts of listings but it looks to me that SY owns
N710SY, N711SY, N811SY, and N813SY with the others all showing "lsd ILFC"... so it looks as if they OWN two -700's and two -800's???

Nope... SY does not own any of their birds... or anything else really.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2948 times:



Quoting Sunking737 (Reply 14):
All of SY planes are leased. The hanger, G.O and commissary are all leased or rented long term. All you would buy is SOC, and a hard working team of employees.

As a former employee of SY I stand by my statement. You can take me away from SY but SY is still a part of me.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently onlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

If WN is the purchasing carrier, couldn't they operate SY independently like they did with TZ? Granted, TZ may not be the best example...

25 Sunking737 : If it was WN it would have been out in the open by now. Rumor is an investment group was seen in and around SY kicking the tires. They are said to own
26 MSPSpotter : I agree! I remember back when SY filed bankruptcy, they asked a judge for access to funds from Petters Aviation to help get them through the rough ti
27 Sunking737 : I read this also IIRC the interest rate was sky high. I think it was around 15 to 20%.
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