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Airports Seeking Airlines & New Routes...  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7615 times:

Thought the below link maybe of interest to people on here...

Came across it by accident and makes interesting reading, with many airports trying to attract airlines to serve routes they feel are underserved...

http://www.therouteshop.com/

There are over 80 airports listed and can see the cases they make for the suggested new routes they want and what they can offer the airlines.

See if your local airport is there...

DSA made me laugh, this is a tiny airport in the UK and they have high hopes. They are trying to attract airlines to New York, Toronto, a Middle East Hub and Pakistan!

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Funny how all european airports are looking to have direct routes to JFK...the ones that don't currently have it.

User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

YUL already has plenty of destinations geez...so what if many are low frequency/seasonal!


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7406 times:

Thanks for the link. Interesting list for Miami: Warsaw? Cape Town (but not Jo'burg)?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7396 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
Interesting list for Miami: Warsaw? Cape Town (but not Jo'burg)?

MIA-WAW is a decent local market during the winter. In general, though, it is just that MIA would really like access to an Eastern European hub given Miami's large Eastern European community. Malev, with 2-3w to Budapest, could have been great if they were still flying long-haul and knew how to do it economically. They are probably aiming for Warsaw because, well, LOT - while nonetheless a slim shot - is their best shot at getting Eastern European service anytime soon. LOT was actually very close to announcing MIA-WOW in fall 2001.

Cape Town is where the majority of Miami's South African community comes from, no Jo'burg.

It is funny that when talking about Milan service, MIA got exactly that: they proposed 3w A330 flights, and Alitalia is starting 3w A330 flights, but I find it doubtful "The Route Shop" is what sold AZ.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7391 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Cape Town is where the majority of Miami's South African community comes from, no Jo'burg.

Ah ok. Thanks.

I could kill an hour or two on that site.


User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1721 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7315 times:

Indeed, Montréal is in! Looking for flights to/from South America and Asia.

Indeed, would fill a void, here.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7023 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 3):
Interesting list for Miami: Warsaw? Cape Town (but not Jo'burg)?

Also, with Cape Town, it would be non-stop both directions. JNB would likely need a stop due to hot and high restrictions.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6963 times:



Quoting WROORD (Reply 1):
Funny how all european airports are looking to have direct routes to JFK...the ones that don't currently have it.

Not to start a debate, but I didn't see any specific mention of JFK. Just "New York", the only instance I saw a reference of "JFK" was Liverpool but they mentioned "EWR" and "JFK".



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently online330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 591 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

BRU is looking for some interesting destinations. I can see Boston, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore work, but Cork, Bratislave or Orlando??? Not much high-yield traffic there, for sure.

Or am I wrong?



Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
User currently offlineBeeweel15 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6051 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Not to start a debate, but I didn't see any specific mention of JFK. Just "New York", the only instance I saw a reference of "JFK" was Liverpool but they mentioned "EWR" and "JFK".

There was a flight some time ago with a B757 did quite well for the summer it flew.


User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 440 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5933 times:



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
DSA made me laugh, this is a tiny airport in the UK and they have high hopes. They are trying to attract airlines to New York, Toronto, a Middle East Hub and Pakistan!

When I was in Doncaster in 2005, all local people where seriously convinced that DSA was supposed to take over LHR's position as busiest UK airport within a few years...  Wink
They told me that DSA was the only airport in the UK that can handle the A380 because of the "extreme long runway" Big grin

At that time there where just a few daily TOM flights...

Mike


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5388 times:



Quoting Flyingfool (Reply 11):
At that time there where just a few daily TOM flights...

LOL

With Thomson dropping their LCC arm and only focussing on charters, flights are even less... They tried long haul flights from their and they have all been dropped!

These days its even less than that... One or two Thomson flights a day if lucky, a daily FlyBE service to Belfast and a thrice weekly Wizzair service!

LBA at the time were very worried that it would be the beginning of the end of their airport. While DSA has continued to decline, LBA has thrived with continuous growth from Jet2 and now FR are setting a base of three aircraft their too!

They also managed to attract long haul services to Pakistan with PIA, and DSA was determined they would be the airport that would attract these services with its "Ultra" long runway!


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

I wish Massport would go to this site. I'd like to see what they want for BOS, and maybe even ORH (Worcester, MA)!


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

It was funny to check who wants who.... both Bordeaux and Lyon want HEL, but HEL wants Lyon and Nice, Nice doesn't miss HEL.  Wink

HEL and MIA are like screaming the connection...HEL says: "Miami is the largest unserved destination".


User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 460 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Hi Everybody!

Looking at the anual number of passengers between certain cities, I was asking myself, how many passengers are needed per year, in order to make a certain route profitable.

Looking for example at the BUD-DXB route:

13500 passengers in 2008:

If an airline would use a plane with 200 seats, 67,5 flights per year would be needed in order to transport this amount of passengers.

This would result in a once weekly service, and sometimes twice-weekly.

Please correct my calculation, due to the fact I am not deeply involved into airlines business.  Smile Don't flame me.

Under which circumstances such a route would be profitable?

Thx in advance.

Regards

Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

I'm still convinced that if EI got off their ass they could do a good little business on a DUB - YYZ - YVR route, thrice weekly in the winter in the winter and 5-7 days in the summer. Perfect A330 route IMO.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4719 times:



Quoting Andaman (Reply 14):
HEL and MIA are like screaming the connection...HEL says: "Miami is the largest unserved destination".

Well, they do have a connection. Finnair flies MIA-HEL on Mondays, but the tech stop in YHZ with a 757 is far from sufficient. Helsinki-Miami is a fairly large local market, and with AA/AY hopefully strengthening their partnership next summer, I think we will finally see AY return with widebodies.

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 15):
Looking for example at the BUD-DXB route:

13500 passengers in 2008:

If an airline would use a plane with 200 seats, 67,5 flights per year would be needed in order to transport this amount of passengers.

This would result in a once weekly service, and sometimes twice-weekly.

Please correct my calculation, due to the fact I am not deeply involved into airlines business.

1) Non-stop service creates/stimulates demand that does not exist.
2) The local market does not include connections that can be had on either end.



a.
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

I'd love to see PER, ADL, DRW and BNE up here!

User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4522 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
Well, they do have a connection. Finnair flies MIA-HEL on Mondays, but the tech stop in YHZ with a 757 is far from sufficient.

Yes I try to forget those cramped 'leisure flights' ...AY say their 757s will be gone by 2012, curious what's coming after that.
MIA says: "MIA and air service consultant’s joint feasibility study forecasts three weekly A340 or equivalent roundtrip passenger frequencies would have 82% load factor potential."


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4443 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Not to start a debate, but I didn't see any specific mention of JFK. Just "New York", the only instance I saw a reference of "JFK" was Liverpool but they mentioned "EWR" and "JFK".

That's an interesting point...I'd think they'd specifically say "EWR or JFK" to try to attract CO's attention, considering the success CO has had with service to smaller airports such as BRS.

OTOH, BRS is attractive to a lot of the southwest of England, while LPL, DSA, etc. aren't that far from larger airports that already have options to New York.

One thing that some of these airports don't seem to be considering in their "requests" is frequency. I looked at Jacksonville's page, and they suggest DEN, Los Angeles (presumably LAX), SEA, and PIT has having between 100 and 150 daily passengers. Is JAX presuming that all those folks want to leave and return at the same time? That demand level would only support one mainline non-stop a day (and only PIT is close enough to seriously propose using a RJ), as opposed to the multiple connection opportunities Jacksonvillians have now. Doesn't seem realistic to me.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

There was another website like this..where it had almost every major airport in the US and you could also check arrivals and departures and there was an aviation forum. Anyone know what its called?


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3911 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Reply 21):

I think your thinking of Flightarrivals.com? it does what you described and its a great website to go to if your bored

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 20):
One thing that some of these airports don't seem to be considering in their "requests" is frequency. I looked at Jacksonville's page, and they suggest DEN, Los Angeles (presumably LAX), SEA, and PIT has having between 100 and 150 daily passengers. Is JAX presuming that all those folks want to leave and return at the same time? That demand level would only support one mainline non-stop a day (and only PIT is close enough to seriously propose using a RJ), as opposed to the multiple connection opportunities Jacksonvillians have now. Doesn't seem realistic to me.

JAX overall lacks service. The Jacksonville newspaper also said that JAX wants a flight
to SJU because of a large Puerto Rican Population....anyone think an airline will fly that route? We had LAX i dont know why they cut it it was doing fine, I dont know about the other markets they want


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3884 times:



Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 22):
..anyone think an airline will fly that route?

None, unless they want to throw a big fat subsidy check at FL, AA or B6.

Quoting JaxMan19 (Reply 22):
We had LAX i dont know why they cut it it was doing fine,

But it wasn't doing fine. Hence, it was cut. It by far made the least sense of Delta's failed LAX "secondary" trans-cons.



a.
User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

are you sure it made the least sense? What were the load factors?

25 ExFATboy : Jacksonville has plenty of service - it's just that the Jacksonville catchment area is just not populous enough (or tourist-intensive such as MCO) to
26 JBAirwaysFan : F9 did DEN-JAX prior to their Chapter 11 filing. DL did JAX-LAX and ended it, so obviously they don't have the demand for LAX like they think. Not to
27 Humberside : I wouldn't laugh. DSA did announce Shaheen would fly DSA-Pakistan. Now it ended up going from LBA before ceasing but the region certainly has demand
28 Flylot : Warsaw is on half of these lists. Meaning there is a lot of potential, which the industry is aware of, but for some reason airlines avoid opening thes
29 KGAIflyer : I'm dumbstruck that Dublin wants service to both DFW (Dallas Texas) and IAH (Houston Texas) . Have they drilled oil wells in Dublin I don't know abou
30 Tsnamm : Well since you did...LIS and CPH mentioned JFK specifically as a matter of fact. Both stated that New York was an "underserved route".Since both of t
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