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United Airlines To Buy Both 787 And A350  
User currently offlineAeroPiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42683 times:

Seems that a few sources are saying that United UAL will split their order between the 787 and the A350.


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
229 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42683 times:

Wow! Really!? From an aviation spotting perspective that's fantastic! Best of both worlds. But how is it more efficient/worth the cost to not consolidate their fleet of that size-range to one type?

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42646 times:

They can use both, the 787/A350 might be the next generation 330/777 winning duo.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42644 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 1):
But how is it more efficient/worth the cost to not consolidate their fleet of that size-range to one type?

As opposed to the 767-300s and 777-200/-200ERs that they have now?

When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineKrisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42490 times:

I guess every major US airline, except CO, will have a Airbus widebody in its fleet. I hope this news is confirmed tomorrow.

I wonder what the make of the order will be? I would guess that the A350 will get a larger share of the order.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42457 times:

Exciting news!!!! What does this mean for the narrowbody order? Anyone's game?

[Edited 2009-12-07 20:18:17]

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42453 times:

If it's true though, I am quite happy from an aviation hobby perspective!

User currently offlineCB777 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1216 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42401 times:

I wonder what will happen to the A350 order if United merges with Continental  Yeah sure

User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42336 times:

Quoting Krisyyz (Reply 4):
I guess every major US airline, except CO, will have a Airbus widebody in its fleet. I hope this news is confirmed tomorrow.

Won't AA's A300s be gone long before UA receives an A350?

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42266 times:

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 8):
Won't AA's A300s be gone long before UA receives an A350?

They are gone already!

User currently offlineElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42161 times:

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 8):

Won't AA's A300s be gone long before UA receives an A350?

they already are.

UA really needs the 787 to replace the 763s. There's just no other viable option for that. The fact that the 787 doesn't go large enough to replace the older 777s and possibly the 747s means a single family isn't an option. They would have to get either A350s or 77Ws and if they do in fact go for a 787/A350 combo it means that the advantage of having a newer, more effiecient type with the A350 outweighed the advantage of having at least a a same-company fleet with the 787/777 combo.

I will say if they're ok with mixing it up, then perhaps a 748i order remains within the realm of possibility.

User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42146 times:
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wow if this is true this will be great news for both Airbus and Boeing...not to mention United! I think that both the 787/A350 will do great things for United!!

User currently offlineN104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 914 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 42036 times:

That is good to hear, I was afraid that they will not going to pick the 787

"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
User currently offlineDfambro From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 42035 times:

Hope it's true!

I'd been hoping for a VLA though, despite the chatter against that

User currently offlineSwallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41741 times:

If this is true, UA will join a growing list of airlines which plan to operate both the 787 and 350 families,


And RR will gain another US customer  bigthumbsup 

The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineFlyFitch From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41700 times:

Wow this is very exciting, I would have never expected this outcome. All parties involved should absolutely benefit. I just hope the official announcement reflects this.

My posts are reflective of my views, and not the views of any company or any other individual.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41518 times:

Quoting CB777 (Reply 7):
I wonder what will happen to the A350 order if United merges with Continental

I don't think CO would get rid of any of UA's Airbuses, and I don't think it would have much impact on the A350 order. I'm guessing UA is ordering the A350-1000 to replace the 747 fleet, and perhaps CO's fleet planners might not be willing to give up on this opportunity. After all, after DL bought out NW, DL wasn't in any rush to get rid of NW's Airbuses.

The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41461 times:

Rumor is A350-1000 to replace the 747s, A350-900 options to replace the 777s eventually and 787 order for the 767 probably -8s.

It's not going to be a huge order 25-35 frames but lots of options.....we will see if they get it right tomorrow.

Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41375 times:
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I'm surprised, but pleasantly so, to see the 787 in the mix.

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41260 times:

Ive said all along that a 788 / A359 / A3510 combo works best for UA in my opinion.

They said they werent going to split the order, but in their case it makes a lot of sense.

What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41260 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
Rumor is A350-1000 to replace the 747s, A350-900 options to replace the 777s eventually and 787 order for the 767 probably -8s.

Really? I am thoroughly surprised at this.. I thought it would have been Boeing majority.. but oh well.. I don't fly United much, but I did like flying their 767 and 777 to Honolulu.. tis a shame.. but at least CO will still offer it..

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
I don't think CO would get rid of any of UA's Airbuses

I bet they would.. as quickly as they got rid of the 300s.. but with UA ordering 350, I'm thinking now that perhaps UA is looking at merging with US now instead of CO.. It wouldn't make sense for them to get the 350 for a CO merger.. but makes more sense for them to go after the 350 to complement the US fleet..

Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41236 times:

WSJ is now reporting a total of 50 firm orders split evenly at 25 each.


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41191 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 20):
I bet they would.. as quickly as they got rid of the 300s.. but with UA ordering 350, I'm thinking now that perhaps UA is looking at merging with US now instead of CO.. It wouldn't make sense for them to get the 350 for a CO merger.. but makes more sense for them to go after the 350 to complement the US fleet..

The same argument could be made about DL's A310s they had years back. But DL isn't getting rid of any of NW's Airbuses.

The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 41173 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
It's not going to be a huge order 25-35 frames but lots of options

The WSJ is reporting 25 firm for the A350 and 25 firm for the B787 in addition to options for many units of both and interesting to see the quoted list price of the deal at more than $9bn, given discounting it'll be good to see the split, if indeed the order is split. No mention of specific models.

UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, which last summer asked Boeing Co. and Airbus to propose dueling bids for up to 150 new jetliners, is expected to announce Tuesday that it has placed initial firm orders for 50 widebody planes, evenly split between the two manufacturers.

People close to the situation said the No. 3 US airline by traffic is expected to announce orders for 25 of Boeing Co.'s new 787 Dreamliner model and the same number for Airbus's new A350, with options for many more units of both that could be converted into orders at later dates. At list prices, the firm order could reach more than $9 billion, although airlines typically command big discounts for large orders.

End fair use link to article

Agree, not too long to find out if the reports are correct

Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 41030 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):
The same argument could be made about DL's A310s they had years back. But DL isn't getting rid of any of NW's Airbuses.

Right. DL has not gotten rid of any Airbus.. at this time. But only time will tell.. I guess we will both have to wait and see what happens..

Aiming High and going far..
25 United1 : I think if Boeing had offered the 787-10 it might have been but the 787-9 is to small to eventually replace the 777. Thats logical....replace the 24
26 CHRISBA777ER : How is this relevant? UA is perfectly entitled to buy Airbus and doesnt care whether you will stop flying them because of it. Sorry - but they dont.
27 ERJ170 : You are correct. And they have in the past. No arguments there. But I never said I wouldn't fly them.. I stated I don't fly them much but in order to
28 United1 : UAs going to be flying the 777/767 to Hawaii for years to come the domestic 767s that UA flies were all delivered between 1998 and 2001.
29 Sydscott : Of course the A350 could make it into the air before the 787 hence a split order makes sense. Seriously though, good news for UAL in making their wid
30 Hamlet69 : 25 787-8's and 25 A350-900's. Announcement tomorrow morning. Regards, Hamlet69
31 Kappel : If true, very smart decision. It is really starting to look like the 787 and a350 complement each other perfectly, making Airbus' decision to grow the
32 DocLightning : Well, the 787 replaces the 767 and the A350 replaces the 777. They operated both of those planes, so there is room for the 787 and the A350. It's a p
33 Jamake1 : Having worked on both Boeing and Airbus narrow bodied aircraft, I can tell you that I prefer the Airbus aircraft, hands down. The wider aisle, seat co
34 Astuteman : They did say they would be focussing on "newer tech" aircraft... In which case these sound like the obvious choice Beat me to the question... Rgds
35 Scipio : If they are ordering A350-900's, not -1000s, that leaves the 747 replacement question open. Some A380s? Or 748i's?
36 Frigatebird : The 787-8 was to be expected, to replace 767's. But the A350-900, to replace 747's or 777's? I had expected A350-1000 to replace 747's.... The WSJ ar
37 Burkhard : Why not split again 9 A380 and 12 B748i - anybody here who would not love this idea?
38 Tayser : Would be great to see UA delink SYD on the MEL flights and go direct year-round, from both SFO and LAX, anything to put more wind up Qantas!!
39 EbbUK : Really? Why would you say that?
40 Keesje : A Boeing 777 or A350 is not a Boeing 747 replacement. The VLA replacement is still open. I think it is a sign of confidence if UA orders the 787-8 ov
41 Post contains images EPA001 : I am convinced of this as well. And I am pleased about this if this order is confirmed.   Which proves the strategic choice that Airbus made (they h
42 Heavierthanair : G'day Remember the huge advertising campaign Airbus had going for the A 380 in November? I doubt this massive effort was to prevent Korean from buying
43 Kappel : According to the article there will be lots of options as well. I would not be surprised if these will be converted to the -1000. It makes sense to o
44 _AA_777_MAN : I was hoping for a UA 748 order.
45 PM : Fifty widebodies will (we assume) be the biggest order this year but it is, of course, only the beginning. It seems likely that the 787 and A350 will
46 Kappel : I was wondering this too... makes sense I guess that these will also be RR's. If so, that would make RR exclusivity on the a350 a very powerfull tool
47 PM : Not so fast. UA have been sensible to split the order between A and B. Might they do the same with the engines? Remember that they're likely to end u
48 Mir : Good to see UA making these sort of moves even in the down economy. The 788 and 359 go well together, and depending on how things shake out with CO an
49 Scipio : With so many airlines opting to buy both the 787 and A350, this raises the question whether GE has shot itself in the foot twice by opting out of the
50 Sirtoby : There ís no real commonality between the Trent1000 and the TrentXWB - XWB has a 2 stage IPT for example. Of course there might be some advantage hav
51 PM : Unfortunately, it appears not to be - at least not for big orders. Etihad have RR on their A350s but have chosen GE for their 787s. So have Qatar Air
52 Tropical : I wish ALL manufacturers would split their orders between A & B (and indeed the manufacturers of smaller jets). That way everybody would be happy. And
53 Art : I thought it was Mr Udvar Hazy's decision. Perhaps Airbus should pay him a commission on all A350XWB's sold.
54 Post contains links Mariner : Oh, I don't think so: http://www.globalspec.com/reference/...-Presses-for-A350XWB-Design-Change "ILFC's Udvar-Hazy Presses for A350XWB Design Change
55 Post contains links Keesje : PARIS (Dow Jones)--European commercial aircraft builder Airbus has obtained an order worth $6.5 billion from United Airlines, according to French TV c
56 Post contains links MSYtristar : This article says the order could be for up to 150 planes of various sizes... http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNWEA468020091208?rpc=44 Maybe some mor
57 Kappel : Sure, but AA didn't order the a350 (technically they haven't ordered the 787 either, but that's a formality I guess), but as you later pointed out: G
58 Post contains links Art : Mariner, I was referring to earlier influence brought to bear on Airbus by Mr Udvar-Hazy: "Leasing giants call for A350 program overhaul Thursday Marc
59 United1 : Not necessarily...UAs been indicating over the past year or so that they want to play the yield management game a little bit better. Smaller planes a
60 PM : 25 firm + 25 options at a guess. Again, firm + options.
61 AirbusA6 : Of course, if UA were to buy the 747-8i, then there would be useful commonality with a GE powered 787 instead, but it does seem these days, with so m
62 Danny : Not necessarily. XWB1000 is many years in the future so when they convert the option they can order it then. It is also important to remember that Ai
63 Jfk777 : Whatever happened to United's need for 777-300ER aircraft ? What is the A350 going to replace, 777 , 744 or 763's ? The A350 also means UA will have a
64 Pilot21 : Just confirmed by United: United Airlines today announced a significant investment in the company's future with a widebody aircraft order that will en
65 Post contains links Heavierthanair : G'day http://finance.yahoo.com/news/United...re-prnews-2547784775.html?x=0&.v=1 Its official now, 25 787plus 25 350 and options of 50 each Cheers Pete
66 Avek00 : The A350 is very much a 747-400 replacement when you consider that United acquired its 747 fleet for its range and to serve markets with restrictions
67 Someone83 : Congrats to United. Only to bad the first aircraft is over 6 years away. However, reading the press release, I guess we can rule out the A380 or 748i
68 PM : What "need"? Not one ever identified by UA. 777s for starters. The A350-900 is a perfect 777-200ER replacement. In time, A350-1000s may replace 747s.
69 Danny : So Richard Aboulafia gets his endorsment of the A350 by another major US airline. I wonder what his matra is going to be now?
70 EPA001 : Well congratulations to Airbus, Boeing, RR, maybe GE and United for the completion of this deal. With the purchase of 25 copies of the A350-900 and t
71 Avek00 : Those a/c types were never realistically rules in for United in the first place. It's been clear for some time that United has been attempting to shi
72 MSYtristar : It's good that UA is going for fleet replacement, but man, it'll be a sad day when the last 747 is retired. As a matter of personal choice, it'll give
73 1337Delta764 : Looking at the sources, the A350 order is for the A350-900, so I guess this leaves the 744 retirement question open. However, none of the reports curr
74 Scorpy : UA already ruled out any VLA purchase. Despite what you read on here, they've been rather clear that they are interested in smaller aircraft to repla
75 Travelhound : They currently have 112 wide bodies comprising of 25 747's, 35 767's & 52 777's. The 50 orders and 100 options covers replacement of the entire wide
76 1337Delta764 : UA could have ordered the A350-1000 to replace the 744. However, the A350 order is for the A350-900.
77 HermansCVR580 : I think this is great for both Airbus and Boeing fans, its like having your cake and eating it too I have to throw this out there, but I think with th
78 Kappel : There are still 50 options. The -1000 is further down the line than the -900. So it would not be surprising at all is several of the options will be
79 Post contains images Keesje : The A350 is no more a 747 replacement then the current 772ER fleet is. Asia is full of - slots restricted airports, - political negotiated limitted o
80 MadameConcorde : Thisi is very good news. These two aircraft types are perfectly fit for United routes. I will be happy to go on these flights when they receive their
81 EPA001 : Actually I am hoping and expecting them to do so. Since UA do not have the B77W in their fleet, the A350-1000 comes pretty close to it. It would be a
82 FlyPNS1 : Those carriers are almost all single hub airlines because of this they need larger aircraft. UA has multiple hubs that can serve as gateways to Asia/
83 Slz396 : People are not paying a premium to fly something different, they are paying a premium to fly differently. I don't know if you've had the pleasure to
84 Keesje : I think the benefits of the A380, more space, silence, smooth ride and perceived 4 engine safety compared to A350/787/777 will not fade away. Airline
85 EPA001 : US Airways already ordered the A350-XWB before UA.
86 United787 : Finally, my name will be a reality! Congrats to United! United has clearly said this order is to replace the 767s and the 747s but they did NOT state
87 Frigatebird : I'm afraid it's the 747 that will be replaced by the A350. The replacement of the 777 is covered by the options, probably a mix of 787-9 and A359. Ag
88 BlueSky1976 : Congratulations to United, Airbus and Boeing. I think I will not exaggerate if I say that this might be the contract of the year: up to 150 of widebod
89 Pnwtraveler : This order is very interesting. Here you have an airline putting an order inplace to improve profitablility and lessen vunerability to downturns. This
90 AustrianZRH : As HA did. But maybe those two are not counting as legacy carriers in Aboulafia's system, so they can be discarded. Maybe the A350 can only be a succ
91 Post contains links and images EPA001 : According to Dutch Aviation Site "luchtvaartnieuws" the B787 will be powered by GE engines. So as Airbus and Boeing are splitting the deal, also RR an
92 Pilot21 : UA have confirmed the models ordered are: A350-900XWB B787-8 United can substitute other models for the above orders if it so wishes, but at the momen
93 Airbazar : I think it closes that argument completely. The Asia-Pacific market is getting more and more fragmented by the day. I think when the 744's are finall
94 Stitch : I wonder if the initial batch of A350XWB-900s will replace the 19 777-200s and the six oldest 777-200ERs? That would give UA extra flexibility by bei
95 FlyPNS1 : The amount of space you get is purely on how the airline chooses to configure the plane and what amenities the airline includes. The four engine safe
96 RJpieces : A bit too early on this question, but presumably all of these birds will be delivered with AVOD throughout right?
97 Stitch : With deliveries between 2016 and 2019, they certainly have no excuse to not install AVOD.
98 Cubsrule : It would not shock me to see some 321 orders to replace the early 757s. Five years from now, the first 757s will be 25 years old and nearly 90 percen
99 HermansCVR580 : I wonder how if any effect todays widebody order will have on the future narrobody order? Could we see another split? More A-320's and A-319's since a
100 Stitch : I doubt it. It really makes little sense for UA to adopt the 737NG now after having removed the 737 Classic from their fleet. If I am not misinterpre
101 Luckyone : As will continue to happen as the market(s) deregulates and becomes more price-sensitive. It's long since happened in the US, we're watching it happe
102 Scorpy : I wonder what this order means for the 777. UA are one of the largest operators of the 777 and have very clearly shown they feel that its older, outda
103 Parapente : Ig other major airlines follow this business philosophy the VLA (pax)market is about to undergo another big shrink in size. (400 tops?)
104 Post contains images EPA001 : How large would the market for a B777NG or a clean sheet design be? The B777NG seems possible, since the A350-1000 will come close, but will most lik
105 Luckyone : Until the A350 lifts off the ground carrying passengers it's not competing with anything. United hasn't ordered a 777 in years so that's a null point
106 EPA001 : As soon as a plane is officially offered, it is competing in the marketplace. If not, Boeing would have sold a lot more B767's instead of all those B
107 BlueSky1976 : With 737s now gone from UA fleet, the -900ER will make no sense whatsoever. I think the carrier will lean towards single narrowbody type and two wideb
108 N328KF : So this means that the 787-8s will be delivered by BCA Charleston.
109 N1786b : And even more surprisingly , the same applies to the A330 vs. the 787 as well. With an AB NB fleet and A350s, the 787 order is more surprising than t
110 Chiad : That would mean a total of 530 A350's ordered. And a total of 865 B787's ordered. Just amazing considering they are years away from EIS.
111 EPA001 : Not at all to me. See below:
112 DocLightning : Then why do the Asian carriers love the 77W so much? JL, SQ, EK (OK, not Asian, but they sure do have a hot airfield), etc...
113 Astuteman : On the basis that the 500 that have been sold would probably have been 777 orders if the A350XWB didn't exist, I'd suggest your statement doesn't hol
114 PWMRamper : I would think that UA would want to look at 10-12 A380/748-i's, solely for their Pacific fleet. The loads to NRT/SYD/HKG and the like are always very,
115 Cubsrule : I'm not so sure. All signs point to significant fragmentation in the US-Asia market in general and US-Japan in particular. These aircraft will permit
116 Beeweel15 : Would like to see this also.
117 FlyPNS1 : Loads may be good, but what about yields? Bingo.
118 LAXintl : From what I gather the proposed A350-900 configuration will be 315, while the 787-8 configuration will be split between an international and domestic
119 Airfrnt : Good news for Airbus and Boeing's 787 and A350. Another nail in the coffin for the 747-8i and A380.
120 Post contains links Stburke : Link to picture of 787-8 from Jon's FlightBlog http://bit.ly/8oEZ2j A great move by UA and look forward to seeing them both in action in the coming ye
121 Mariner : By the time SUH spat the dummy at Istat, Airbus had been getting major pressure from various customers (Singapore eg) and CEO Humbert had already sai
122 MSYtristar : In terms of U.S airlines, you bet. Pretty sad if you ask me. Thankfully international carriers still see the value of these planes. That's all well a
123 NA : As delivery will be between 2016 and 2019, these aircraft will definitely replace the 767 and 777 fleets. I still hope UA will order some VLAs at a la
124 Ual777 : I do not think that these aircraft are replacing the 777 (for the moment). The firm numbers closely mirror the number of 767s and 747s.
125 LAXintl : If United had a repalcement plane today, I would say none of these markets would be 744s. On two occasions United has tried to swap out the routes to
126 FlyPNS1 : DL used to fly 763's on ATL-MSY, ATL-BDL, etc? These routes were "proven" to support a 763, but today they no longer do. Does that mean DL is in erro
127 Rameshksm : Asian is not just SE Asia or East Asia you know.
128 NA : I think they will, both the A350 and the 787 have the perfect size for it. I bet at least the 777 non-ERs will be replaced by those airplanes ordered
129 MSYtristar : If you can make more money by doing so, why not? Like I said, maybe they just had a change in strategy. I don't...and I would assume no one outside o
130 UALWN : I fly on UA 900/901 SFO-FRA-SFO over 10 times a year. The flights are operated with 744 and they are always full. This Sunday's flight had 2-3 empty
131 FlyPNS1 : It's the same basic premise. As markets like BDL and MSY were fragmented by the arrival of LCC's and yields declined, DL's 763's no longer made sense
132 MSYtristar : I agree with the premise, but for the record, we can say Katrina was the catalyst for MSY losing 763 service before the complete pull down (save LAS,
133 EbbUK : Or if you are a fan of one or the other then it is having your cake and having to share. What about the engines? Will UA go PC and share these spoils
134 Art : Thanks for filling in some detail. Perhaps Airbus owes a favour to all the customers pushing for the A350 to be replaced by something better.
135 Ikramerica : I believe the decision today allows UA to defer the decision on A388/748/A351/777NG until more is known about most of those options. I believe UA need
136 Cubsrule : What about HND and additional US gateways, though? The 350 MAY even be able to do ORD-SYD with some restrictions, which is right about 8000 nm. The -
137 Kaitak : Let me begin by saying that I'm thrilled about this order; how long as it that UA was on its back on the canvas, being counted out ... and now this te
138 Post contains links MadameConcorde : Flightglobal has a picture (artist rendering) of what the United 787 will look like. I find it is a very pretty plane. Click on picture for super-larg
139 Mariner : Well - maybe. But I'm one of those who thinks they should still have stayed with the souped-up A330 - as well as introducing the A350XWB a little lat
140 NA : But both would be vastly inferior to a 748I in that respect!
141 UALWN : If, say, UA 900, a 744 doing SFO-FRA, goes out every day full, in all classes of service, how can it be harmful? How could it be more financially ast
142 FriendlySkies : Capacity-wise, the 787-9 is about the same as the A350-800, so there wouldn't be direct overlap. I could certainly see UA using some 787-9 down the r
143 Kaitak : Little historical point of note: the RR engines on the A350 will mark the first time UAL has ordered aircraft with UAL aircraft in nearly fifty years.
144 MadameConcorde : Oh... How could I ever forget the new Big Girl of the Skies? She will definitely make a great United Bird!
145 LAXintl : Again, who says a full plane is a profitable one? If United can enjoy better margins on a smaller aircraft great. Look at the huge success p.s. has b
146 NA : If. More airplanes, even higher frequencies than now (who needs that?) more congestion, more crews to pay, higher ticket prices =
147 JRDC930 : Good to see UA wont go all airbus! Congrats to boeing if it firms up. I got an email from ATA.com (airtransportation asociation) and it sounds like UA
148 Post contains links ATTart : Just found this article regarding a future narrow body order... http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...es-to-seek-more-new-aircraft-in-10[Edited 2009-
149 Astuteman : If I recall correctly, Humbert quoted the loss of the QF competition as the catalyst for starting work on an all-new plane. But it took a further 6 m
150 United787 : I am surprised we didn't see an order for 757 replacement, maybe next year! United said pretty clearly that this order replaces the 747 and 767 fleet
151 ZRH : All speak about fragmentation. But I think this is not every where. In these economical difficult times it is much more economical to fly one big airc
152 Mariner : Yes, coming on top of pressure from Singapore and others. But then I'm surprised if it only took six months to come up with the XWB. mariner
153 Incitatus : Not a very clever decision at all! A359s are just slightly larger than 772s. 787-8s are larger than 767-300s. If UA retires the 747-400s and 767-300s,
154 Cubsrule : That's not fragmentation, though, because you are looking at a single route. In Japan, you have one long-haul airport becoming too, and UA will likel
155 Etops1 : I think that there is a lot more to this than we know .
156 DocLightning : The A350-1000 has similar payload and range to a 77W, which is essentially a twin-engined 744 stretch without the upper deck. (and a few other modifi
157 PlaneAdmirer : I don't remember where on here I read it, but the mountains being to the West of DEN present a problem (in SLC the mountains are to the East). My rec
158 Cubsrule : They do, which is one of the reasons we haven't seen the route yet even though it is comfortably within 772 range. The 350 should be more than capabl
159 Ikramerica : Should have clarified. Long meaning more than 7 years. A380 has delivery slots available beyond 2015.
160 RomeoKC10FE : And they wonder why they are in financial trouble.
161 NA : Yuck. No VLAs them? I dont give a dime for UA anymore then.
162 N328KF : Of the US "majors," one has exclusively selected the A350, and three have selected the 787, with one having selected both. There's also HA, if you wa
163 DocLightning : Um? It's financially even less sound to keep these depreciated dinosaurs that they have around, especially with D-checks coming due. If you have a 10
164 474218 : I hope everyone has it straight now: United has stated that the A350-9 will replace the 747 and the 787-8 will replace the 767, starting 2016.
165 NA : US Airlines really are no world class anymore. Ailing since years, now their future is just boring midsize twinjet planes. Any REAL enthusiasts out t
166 Cubsrule : Define "world class." I want US airlines - and all airlines - to maximize profit.
167 Egcarter : United cut very sweet deals with Boeing and Airbus for these aircraft...fully financed, as well. According to Business Week, "United will need to spen
168 NA : Why, are you working for one? Maximized profit means high prices. I, and I´m sure many others here, would not like that. Of cause I want to see them
169 AirbusA6 : Genuinely playing off both manufacturers should have got them a good deal, I wonder, for example, how their 787 price and financing compares with AA'
170 Stitch : I for one do not define an airline as "world class" based on how many families it has it's livery plastered to. *shrug* And smaller can be better. NH'
171 Post contains images Keesje : Usually airlines operations are driven by market demand. Asia keepS on growing. Replacing 744s by 300 seaters makes no sense. Their existing 777-200ER
172 BMI727 : Then I'm afraid that you will be disappointed. This is a business, after all. Probably about the same, and I would not be a bit surprised if AA actua
173 Cubsrule : So am I - but there's more to diversity than number of engines. So even if you define "world class" by number of aircraft families, I'm not sure how
174 MSYtristar : Ditto. I'll probably go out of my way to avoid them when the last 747 is put out to pasture. I don't really care about its profit margin since I'm no
175 EbbUK : With UA choosing it's widebody fleet for the next decade and beyond I think A380 will not feature for them or any US carrier. Their (collectively) cab
176 BMI727 : It does if you add frequency, which has been the trend over the last couple decades.
177 Mariner : I probably felt the same about many airlines when the Stratocruisers and Constellations and DC7's and Hermes and Argonauts were put out to pasture. B
178 FlyPNS1 : Just because it's hub-to-hub doesn't mean there isn't fragmentation. SYD-LAX used to have two carriers (QF and UA). Now, it has four carriers. Sure,
179 Cubsrule : What is AF or BA doing that is cutting edge in their 380s?
180 PlanesNTrains : Perhaps because he feels that way? I thought that the 787 was possible, but I really thought the 350 was where they were headed. Pleasant surprise fo
181 474218 : What I am looking forward to is when the options become due. Since UA has the same number of firm orders and options for both airframes, we may be abl
182 Airbazar : when i mentioned fragmentation I wasn't referring to more frequencies. I was refering to more airlines starting more routes. There was a time when yo
183 PlanesNTrains : True, though it would seem that demand would play a role as well. If they need larger aircraft, they will need to go with the 350, even if the 787 is
184 HOOB747 : I'm in denial, like many other Heavy fans, about the end of the passenger 747 with United. I know it will happen, but secretly hoped for an order of
185 Flighty : This makes sense. The 788 is the perfect 767 replacement. It makes me believe that US ought to have bought the 787 in a perfect world. In terms of cab
186 Stitch : Bollocks. SQ, EK, QF and AF all have their current cabins on their smaller planes in their A388s, with the exception of Suites Class on SQ. UA's new
187 Cpd : QF's first on A380 is different to that on the other planes. Compare first on a 747 to First on the A380. The B767 doesn't even have first.[Edited 20
188 UALWN : A 744 with F (12 seats) and C (52) full is surely profitable. A 359 won't be able to seat more than 8F, 40C. You can send two 787s but the CASM will
189 EbbUK : The AF design is, in my view, is a wonder of classy restraint. The art gallery??? Class act. It is clear the A380 is too much plane for UA, in more w
190 Incitatus : Great point. I would to that the following. VA placed their Sydney-to-LAX departure at 9 pm. At some point QF is going to stick an evening departure
191 Cubsrule : Classy? Sure. But how is it "cutting edge?"
192 PlanesNTrains : I'm not saying otherwise. I'm only pointing out what someone above stated would be the seat totals. Perhaps they aren't going to follow a current con
193 JRDC930 : You would be in the minority of the general public. And traveler, and even some normal aviation enthusiasts. I want an airline to make profit, but no
194 Cubsrule : But the two (or the four) are not mutually exclusive. An unsafe airline won't maximize profit because it will constantly pay FAA fines and/or tort ju
195 UALWN : Ever heard of FR?
196 Cubsrule : Sure have - but United doesn't have FR's costs, so it'll be pretty hard to survive on FR's revenue.
197 EbbUK : I say, use of such language as your first word would not be accepted on a site managed on this side of the Atlantic. Shocking. Anyhoo, I think you ag
198 Keesje : The 777-200ER is a little larger then the A350-900. Some United 777-200ER's have 249 seats, some 253. How could A350-900s have much more? Perfect 747
199 PlanesNTrains : Perhaps they won't. Maybe the number I shared from earlier in the thread was a maximum seating configuration and not what UA actually plans to do. -D
200 LAXintl : If the 744 was so profitable, air carriers across the world would not be riding themselves of the model, particuarly in favor of the 77W. The model a
201 FRNT787 : I am quite sure that US carriers have other reasons for selecting smaller widebody aircraft other than the fact that they dont have "flair" for produ
202 Stitch : Only in charter-configuration. I imagine both the 787 and A350XWB will be 3+3+3 in a UA Economy configuration, though one can hope for 2+4+2 on the 7
203 474218 : To quote UA press release: "United expects to take delivery of the aircraft between 2016 and 2019; at the same time it will retire its international
204 LDVAviation : Boeing provided back-stop financing to CO and AA for their 787 orders. AA will get their first of 42 firm order 787's in the second half of 2013. Tha
205 Post contains links RJpieces : United's press release: http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,7056,61384,00.html Q2: How will these aircraft be used? A2: The new aircraft will be used
206 JoeCanuck : With less than a 4 inch difference in cabin width between the 787 and 350, I will be interested in how they outfit the interiors to differentiate the
207 DocLightning : "much longer"? Less than 1,000 NM difference, right? Admittedly, 1,000 NM is a long way, but I can't imagine which routes would utilize the full rang
208 Flightopsguy : Two ways to deal with driftdown limited aircraft: 1. Restrict the takeoff weight so the aircraft could drift down to a safe altitude over the tallest
209 Post contains links Trex8 : seems GE has gotten the 787 engine as RR only announced a A350 deal LONDON: British aircraft engine maker Rolls-Royce announced Tuesday that it had cl
210 Asiaflyer : Not correct. SQs Business class seats in A380 is wider than in their A345 and 77W even if the design is the same. 34" vs 30". The only similar produc
211 Par13del : UA has decided to reduce their international by not replacing their largest a/c with something similar, see the quote below from the answer given by
212 Cubsrule : We're talking about routes between, roughly, 7000 and 8000 nm. You are correct there that there aren't many, but here are a few that might make sense
213 Incitatus : The A359 cabin is a bit narrower. The A359 fuselage is longer. All things being equal and both being 9-abreast, the A359 should be able to carry a fe
214 Ikramerica : If you are going to go by exact quoting, the A350-1000 has not been ordered nor mentioned, and the answer clearly talks about the 50 orders only, so
215 NorCal : They don't show a flashy product because Americans don't want to pay for it. It isn't like they aren't capable of coming up with "flashy ideas" for c
216 777fan : Man, I hope that's not the case. 3-3-3 is possibly the worst configuration I could think of. 2-4-2 would be ideal but I'm sure they'll try to cram as
217 PM : Either that or UA haven't yet selected an engine for the 787. Which is apparently the case.
218 PVG : Maybe point to point with mid-size long range aircraft will do away with the need for many VLA's, especially from the states where they may be able t
219 WestWing : ...as any objective analysis of the UA press release should lead one to conclude.
220 PM : Apologies if it has been mentioned before (though I haven't seen it) but UA's order for A350s now means that every significant US airline has ordered
221 JRDC930 : same thing can be said of large parts of the world where superior quality airlines operate. Its really the fact that US carriers simply arent well ma
222 Jimbobjoe : Lower risk. It is entirely possible that a handful of 748s or A380s *would be* more profitable for United. But the US airline industry has just been
223 Ikramerica : Not to mention that the route might be more profitable by sending 2 A359s 4 days a week (peak travel days) and a single A359 3 days a week rather tha
224 Dfambro : UA resisted going 10 abreast on their 777s (unlike other "world class carriers") even though the scheduled reconfiguration gives them the opportunity
225 VC10er : I just can't imagine United Airlines without a 747. Period. I hope given their truck routes to Asia that they will, along with their BFF, Lufthansa, t
226 Flighty : The A359 more of a 777 replacement IMHO. I wouldn't say they are replacing 744; instead perhaps retiring that class and expanding the smaller 777 cla
227 Dfambro : Given their pretty clear and unambiguous statements, I think it's more likely that they are just planning to schedule their ops around smaller planes
228 Astuteman : In terms of cabin area, the A350-900 is near-on identical to the 772 The 744 is being removed because it is old and inefficient compared to modern ai
229 Post contains links Diamond : Please continue the discussion here: United Airlines To Buy Both 787 And A350 (#2) (by Diamond Dec 8 2009 in Civil Aviation) Any posts added to this t
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