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Why Doesn't UA Have More Mainline Flights At IAD?  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11417 times:

I've noticed that UA really lags behind in mainline at IAD, compared to the rest of the hub network(excluding LAX).

For example the only cities on the east coast that have mainline from IAD are:

BOS,BDL,LGA,RDU,MCO,and TPA.

None of the destinations in Texas have it.

You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

I understand that on there own, there is very little O/D for the market, but IAD is a connecting hub for the east coast and a gateway to Africa, Europe, Asia and the Middle East, not to mention the rest of the country.

You would think that there would be more markets!


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyIGuy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11406 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
None of the destinations in Texas have it.



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

IAH gets 2 daily to IAD and MSY does get atleast 1 mainline to IAD a day.

Just my 0.02



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11409 times:

Uhh, slightly misleading thread name...

It must be that weekly topic on A.net: "Why doesn't UA have more mainline service/why does UA depend so much on regionals?" Reminds me of the NW DC-9 threads of yesterweek....


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11396 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
For example the only cities on the east coast that have mainline from IAD are:

BOS,BDL,LGA,RDU,MCO,and TPA.

Aah yes and RDU recently got it back after a drought for a couple of years..before we were an express station...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11400 times:

I think that they have outsourced a lot of flying to United Express, esp. with the retirement of United's 737 fleet. It probably works fine for IAD given its role--DC business travellers flying to Atlanta are probably flying on one of Delta's hourly flights from DCA.

A lot of the cities you listed get RJ service on CO from EWR though...But I do agree with you that it would be more ideal if some of those cities were served on mainline.

United does not seem to have an answer for what it's future role as a domestic carrier is...


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11358 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):

You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

Most, if not all, of these cities enjoy regular mainline service on US to DCA. If folks need to get to Washington or even most of its suburbs, DCA makes much more sense. IAD is much more of a transit hub and int'l gateway. Cities like DFW, ATL, AUS, MIA, even IND were all mainline about 10 years ago. The demand for full-size jets just isn't there. However, due to perimeter rule, some interesting options such as PDX and ABQ are available nonstop from IAD.



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User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11363 times:



Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 1):
IAH gets 2 daily to IAD and MSY does get atleast 1 mainline to IAD a day.

Oh I was on a flight yesterday from ORD-ALB and I was looking at the magazine and I couldn't believe it, and then I checked the online route maps.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7505 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11346 times:

ROC lost mainline to IAD after 9.11

Never got it back.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11303 times:



Quoting United_fan (Reply 7):
ROC lost mainline to IAD after 9.11

Never got it back.

Anymore..? I'm really surprised that BUF/PVD dont have it. It would be a prime time for UA to introduce it to the ALB market as US just pulled the plug on ALB-DCA mainline.

On a side note UA just announced an expansion plan at ALB...according to The Times Union saying that they will be beefing up the ALB-ORD route. I guess they are doing well taking the former AA passengers. UA seems to be doing well here.



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User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11302 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

Right now MSY is 1X 320 and 2X E70. It goes to 2X 319 and 1X CR7 later this month and will see 757 service on select days between 12/17 and 1/4.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33010 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11266 times:

I'll talk a nice new E70 over a worn out A320 anyday.


a.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11215 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
I'll talk a nice new E70 over a worn out A320 anyday.

I am just a big fan of adjustable headrests and of course a sucker for IFE..



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11136 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):

I understand that on there own, there is very little O/D for the market, but IAD is a connecting hub for the east coast and a gateway to Africa, Europe, Asia and the Middle East, not to mention the rest of the country.

Very little O&D? D.C. is one of the largest O&D markets in the country. UA's lack of domestic mainline service from IAD stems primarily from their retirement of 737s (over 100 aircraft), which caused aircraft to be repositioned to more important cities in the network, such as ORD. It made more sense for UA to maintain service through regional carriers from IAD than from other hubs, hence the reason that IAD lacks a lot of domestic mainline service.

Jeremy


User currently offlineVC10DC10 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11118 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):

Right. Plus, factor in UA's ability to shuttle hundreds of passengers a day from DCA to the ORD hub, and the US codeshares out of DCA, and it would seem they have D.C. covered.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11072 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

For the cities on that list that lack other mainline (e.g. BNA), a single mainline flight makes no sense, as it would require mainline ground handling.

You have cities on there that are in a number of situations, but here are some that are contributing to the lack of mainline

-OAL hub (ATL, DFW, CLT, YYZ)
-Depressed local market due to service to DCA and/or proximity (ALB, PVD, CLT, BUF, JAX)
-Express station (BNA)
-Need for frequency (DFW, BUF)



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User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11061 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
It made more sense for UA to maintain service through regional carriers from IAD than from other hubs, hence the reason that IAD lacks a lot of domestic mainline service.

IAD has always been mostly regional aircraft on shorter haul routes. Before the advent of RJ's it was mostly Atlantic Coast Jetstream 31's and 41's and before that Presiential Bae-146's. DCA (for convenience) and BWI (for price) see most of the short-haul traffic from the Washington Region. IAD serves mostly long-haul flights and the NoVA O/D trafic that doesn't go to DCA.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11040 times:



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Very little O&D? D.C. is one of the largest O&D markets in the country. UA's lack of domestic mainline service from IAD stems primarily from their retirement of 737s (over 100 aircraft), which caused aircraft to be repositioned to more important cities in the network, such as ORD. It made more sense for UA to maintain service through regional carriers from IAD than from other hubs, hence the reason that IAD lacks a lot of domestic mainline service.

most people go to DCA

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
For the cities on that list that lack other mainline (e.g. BNA), a single mainline flight makes no sense, as it would require mainline ground handling.

I think BUF and PVD is mainline handled and I know ALB is



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10905 times:

What a horrible, horrible thread title.  
( In case the thread title changes, the current title is "Why No More UA Mainline At IAD? " )

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 16):
most people go to DCA

If I am reading the BTS stats correctly, for the twelve months Sep 2008 to Aug 2009:

DCA = 8.4 million domestic passengers arriving (as destination) per year.
IAD = 8.1 million domestic passengers arriving (as destination) per year.

No reasonable person ought to characterize that as "most people go to DCA".

[Edited 2009-12-08 19:00:02]


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User currently offlineJustlump From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10362 times:



Quoting FlyIGuy (Reply 1):
IAH gets 2 daily

Note: this mainline service is fairly recent. Up until last year this route was operated by E170s.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 12):
Very little O&D? D.C. is one of the largest O&D markets in the country

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User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26593 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10257 times:

The 737 retirements have been a huge reason in a general decline in mainline flying. Stupid move too, given the significantly higher costs of express flying.


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User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9835 times:



Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
DCA = 8.4 million domestic passengers arriving (as destination) per year.
IAD = 8.1 million domestic passengers arriving (as destination) per year.

Considering the average aircraft size at IAD versus DCA, these numbers aren't necessarily reflective.

The fact of the matter is that business travellers in DC DO mostly use DCA. Doesn't mean that IAD doesn't have its own passengers, etc. Just like in NYC--Most business travellers in Manhattan fly from LGA, but Continental at EWR has a huge market as well.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9588 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 5):
Cities like DFW, ATL, AUS, MIA, even IND were all mainline about 10 years ago.

IADAUS was started within the last five years on UA.

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
You would think that BUF/ATL/CLT/PIT/ALB/DFW/PVD/YYZ/JAX /BNA/MSY would have some kind of mainline service, at least 1x.

Actually, PIT has almost never had UA mainline to IAD, it's been Express since 1990. YYZ wasn't started until the last few yeras, CLT was discontinued for a long, long time as well. Remember, the primary domestic A/C for UA short-haul ops was the 737, it's long gone now. Any market that could be served on the east coast with UA mainline from IAD would've gotten 737s. PHL had a few, EWR had some, RDU had some before mainline was cut. CMH had mainline, so did BOS and LGA. ROC's flight used to go IADROCBUF and back, and that was still 1x daily.



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User currently offlineRB211TriStar From United States of America, joined May 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9311 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 5):
Most, if not all, of these cities enjoy regular mainline service on US to DCA. If folks need to get to Washington or even most of its suburbs, DCA makes much more sense. IAD is much more of a transit hub and int'l gateway. Cities like DFW, ATL, AUS, MIA, even IND were all mainline about 10 years ago. The demand for full-size jets just isn't there. However, due to perimeter rule, some interesting options such as PDX and ABQ are available nonstop from IAD.

I disagree... To much of NoVA, DCA is not only farther, but more difficult to get to with the HOV-Only rules on I-66. IAD makes a lot more sense for convenience or for people who fly airlines other than US.


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8872 times:



Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
IAD is a connecting hub for the east coast and a gateway to Africa, Europe, Asia and the Middle East, not to mention the rest of the country.

This is true, and with other airlines, I might see your point. However, remember that a large(r) portion of UAX's fleet has some kind of first class seating, and (iirc) all of it has E+.


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8771 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 20):
Considering the average aircraft size at IAD versus DCA, these numbers aren't necessarily reflective.

Numbers aren't necessarily reflective of what?

The post that I was responding to made the statement that "most [O&D] travelers use DCA".

BTS says the number of domestic O&D passengers that use DCA is about the same as those that use IAD.

How does considering average aircraft size change that fact?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 20):
The fact of the matter is that business travellers in DC

Can you point me to where in the post that I responded to, was a distinction being made between business and leisure passengers.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
25 JBAirwaysFan : I think it was dumb for UA to retire all those older 737s without a back up mainline aircraft. As mentioned, regional flying does cost more. Maybe UA
26 KGAIflyer : Okay. If IAD was Washington DC's single airport, then this thread would make a lot more sense. But when you consider there are three major airports i
27 Ssides : I think the point is that most O&D traffic in the region goes through DCA or BWI. IAD is much more of a connecting hub than these two airports.
28 Post contains links WestWing : As I mentioned in reply 17 above, the BTS statistics do not appear to support the assertion that DCA gets most of the DC region's O&D traffic. The BT
29 LAXintl : IAD is a niche hub for United - namely one that serves primarily as its Atlantic gateway. As such the flying is very much concentrated and built aroun
30 FlyPNS1 : Nope, these numbers are all domestic passengers including those who connect.
31 KGAIflyer : Nitpick noted.
32 WestWing : I was told by someone at BTS that the numbers on the airport summary page reflect the "market" data (which is only O&D as compared to "segment" data
33 KGAIflyer : When you consider that IAD west-coast transcons by VX, AA, and B6 are not repeated or duplicated at DCA, then this seems sensible. I have flown all t
34 Tommy767 : I think if UA had the mainline resources they could easily serve more short haul destinations on the east coast. I think airports like JFK, EWR, PHL,
35 Cubsrule : ...and the VX and B6 passengers you see connecting may well be (erroneously) counted as local passengers - and counted twice at that.
36 FlyPNS1 : Look at the passenger statistics for IAD/DCA from the MWAA (www.mwaa.com) and you'll see the numbers are almost the same (taking out the internationa
37 SolarFlyer22 : The UA hub at IAD is more like a mini-hub. It's best for overseas travel with lots of flights heading east (DXB, KWI, LHR, FRA etc.) but going west th
38 KstateinALB : And as I suspected, they most likely pulled mainline because it's the winter season. Expect to see it back during the summer. Friday and Sunday eveni
39 EWRkid1990 : PIT isn't that far of a drive from IAD, most people just think it cheaper to drive instead of fly and deal with everything that comes with that.
40 Cschleic : Makes me wonder if any of the legacy carriers, chasing international business, will end up looking like a Pan Am with not enough domestic feed. Of co
41 Cubsrule : I really don't understand why a.netters are so down on driving to IAD. Is it harder than getting to DCA? Sure, but it's no worse than going to ORD or
42 DesertJets : I think it is in the "it depends" category. The DCA vs. IAD (vs. BWI) debate depends on where you live in the DC metro area. If you live in Arlington
43 JBAirwaysFan : LGA will be losing mainline IAD service temporarily in January and February. As it is now, a majority of LGA-IAD is RJ's anyway. LGA-IAD only has a s
44 Cubsrule : We may be thinking of two different questions. I'm not asking which airport is more convenient. If you're inside the Beltway, IAD probably isn't the
45 SESGDL : Most of the region does go through DCA and BWI domestically, but IAD is a significant O&D airport. For 2007 O&D of the three airports was: BWI: 15,78
46 IrishAyes : This is because DCA is subject to a 1,250 mile perimeter rule. Although 24 slots of have been allocated to various airlines as exceptions, primarily
47 DesertJets : For example my brother lives in the Seven Corners area in Fairfax county... inside the Beltway, awful traffic. Dulles can be 30-60 minutes away depen
48 SolarFlyer22 : That is a really crappy rule. I was not aware of it but it does explain alot. That needs to be repealed.
49 Cubsrule : From, for instance, Bethesda, I'd much rather drive to IAD even at rush hour. That said, DCA is more convenient on metro and will be even once the si
50 Post contains images KGAIflyer : You are being far too kind. The Dulles Toll Road (outside lanes) and Dulles Connector Road (inside lane) are patrolled by (1) the US Park Police (2)
51 FlyIGuy : 1 Wrong 2 Wrong 3 Wrong The inside has always been patrolled by MWAA police. Now the outside is also since the State Police lost the contract to patr
52 KGAIflyer : Well, you obviously don't get many speeding tickets, do you? (when was the last time you had *your* license suspended ) . Since the Dulles Connector
53 FlyIGuy : Never, and the only time i have been asked to show my licence is when MWAA was doing a sting at the C/D terminal and we all had to show proof that I
54 KGAIflyer : Naah. No need. I'm an olde fart. And I have old canceled checks stamped by the Fairfax County Clerk of Courts to prove I've been there. The trouble s
55 VC10DC10 : Hey, I thought it was bad when a MWAA officer told me I was doing 85.
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