Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28476 posts, RR: 84 Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10065 times:
MTOW growth could probably help, as would more efficient engines. That way you could either tank more fuel or fly farther on your existing fuel load.
Properly maintained, the 757s should be able to fly for decades to come. So it might be a case that the ones used on domestic missions are replaced with the A321 and 739ER and the remainder soldier on doing Hawaii and TATL ops.
FlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9969 times:
The 757-200 is a very versatile aircraft, it is capable of so many different "missions" with no need to modify it (well maybe convert it to ETOPS...). It can operate short range flights, turn around and fly across the Atlantic with no worries. It operates exceptionally well in hot and high conditions, it has a good top end capacity and can operate 6+ hour flights with minimal fuss.
(Having operated several of those 6+ hour flights, there is a fuss, believe me but it's in the cabin from the passengers crammed into their seats and from us having to work extra hard - The 757 on long flights is a b*stard to work on)
Neither the A321 or the B739 can offer the same level of versatility. Both are good replacements for specific roles, but neither can perform equally in all operational roles. The 787 line is intended to directly replace the 757 according to Boeing.
The 757 is loved by the charter airlines in Europe, some have started to replace them with A321s, they can operate the same flights but with less passengers and in this economic climate it works out good for the airline, they have a more fuel efficient aircraft and since less people are travelling the airline isn't loosing out on capacity.
The most notable airline would be Monarch, they were a launch customer of the 757 and have operated the type ever since. They have only just started to withdraw their oldest models (the oldest 757s outside of the USA), given that these aircraft have endured almost 30 years of harsh charter airline flying it is a safe bet to say that in the end we might not need a replacement type for many years to come...
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
KingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1283 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9929 times:
Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 3): Neither the A321 or the B739 can offer the same level of versatility. Both are good replacements for specific roles, but neither can perform equally in all operational roles.
As I have said many times (not necessarily in here but I truly believe this), neither A321 or the B737-900ER are a true replacement for the 757. The 739ER was supposed to come close to the 757, but it is still short some seats and range. Neither the 321 nor the 739ER can pull off hot and high operations like the 757 could. The 757 is a hot rod in its own class. There truly is nothing like the 757 currently available.
Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 3): The 787 line is intended to directly replace the 757 according to Boeing.
Really? I never thought they would actually say it would take the role of the 75... I mean it's a widebody... I thought it was bigger? Maybe the -3 could do it. I still don't think it really replaces a <200-pax narrowbody with good range and strong hot-and-high capabilities.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2): Properly maintained, the 757s should be able to fly for decades to come.
Perhaps some of the older ones will go soon, but I agree. The vast majority of the 757s currently in service will be around many more years.
Quoting Keesje (Reply 1): Airbus is upgrading A321 with winglets and possibly new engines (GTF/LeapX).
I don't really like the idea of that, but it could work. IIRC it can't hold as many passengers as a 752, but if it has the range and ability to fly out of anywhere without too many weight restrictions, then maybe airlines will settle for this.
I know Boeing stopped producing the 757 because of a lack of orders and possible interference with their beloved 737 line. But it left such a huge gap, and since airlines are starting to look for 757-sized and similarly capable aircraft, could Boeing ever restart the 757 line? Maybe they could use new engines and some more composite parts. Could it possibly be worth resurrecting the 757?
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
Dl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9707 times:
I personally don't like the 757 as a passenger, anything more than 3 hours and it becomes too small. I think some routes will be replaced with a 739 or A321 but I'm betting AA and DL especially are talking to boeing about a true replacement. I wonder if they could come out with a 738-752 replacement before a full Y1
ATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1367 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9492 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 1): There´s a gab left by A300/A310/757/767-200/Tu-154.
The A300 is just simply bigger bird than the rest formentioned and is really in a different class capacity wise and its range and effeciencies are partly why its dissapearing quickly. The A300-605r would make a good high density charter aircraft to replace some of the remaining 3 engined and some 4 engined equipment. The 310 and 762 has there share of issues with operating/payload cost etc (smaller loads, more range) why they dissappeared from airlines more quickly and in some cases many years ago, 757 is starting to feel the effects as well.
For 90%+ of the routes...A321/737-900ER. For the remaining 10%...small widebodies.
Quoting MIgAiR54 (Thread starter): many of this planes are flying routes where the other options can´t do the job...... for example Europe......some Hawaii routes.......SouthAmerica......
The A321/737-900ER can do all the Europe & South America routes of interest. The 737-700 can do some of the Hawaii stuff. The only place where the 757 really has a leg up are the long-thin routes beyond the range of the A321/737-900ER, but there aren't enough of those to justify a complete replacement.
Quoting KingFriday013 (Reply 4): As I have said many times (not necessarily in here but I truly believe this), neither A321 or the B737-900ER are a true replacement for the 757.
True, but there wasn't enough demand for those few routes where you actually needed a 757 to justify a full replacement. Orders for 757's dropped to *zero* for a couple of years before production ended. Not "low"...zero.
B727LVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 629 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9187 times:
Why not, with all the new avionics and engine upgrades that are coming out, re-open the line? I'm sure with the new upgrades they can squeeze some more effeincy out of it. I mean we are talking about a good airframe, just need to find ways to make it better right? If it ain broke why fix it?
I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
KingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1283 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9116 times:
Quoting B727LVR (Reply 10): Why not, with all the new avionics and engine upgrades that are coming out, re-open the line? I'm sure with the new upgrades they can squeeze some more effeincy out of it. I mean we are talking about a good airframe, just need to find ways to make it better right? If it ain broke why fix it?
It is broke. As much as I love the 757 (you have NO idea ), it isn't as efficient as newer aircraft. It can do some things current aircraft can't, but it loses out because it costs some airlines too much to operate.
As you said, a new, re-engineered 757 would be a winner. Put in a new glass cockpit, put on new engines (maybe even a GTF-kinda thing), get some 787 technologies going, maybe utilize some composite parts, etc. Did Boeing get rid of the production machines? What do you all think?
Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8814 times:
I thought I had read that the 787 was a replacement for both the 757 and 767, though as has been suggested here, the 787 is a lot bigger than the 757. Boeing considered the market now occupied by the 757 will grow significantly in the near future? Hard to say.
I don't believe Boeing or Airbus will produce a direct replacement for the 757. I suspect Boeing's 737 replacement will be bigger than the current generation planes in that market, though how much bigger remains to be seen.
Wdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8650 times:
Any one have any idea how the 757 would perform with say some new GenX engines or new RR engines with new technology such as from the A350 program? It is already pretty efficient with the current wing. Could Boeing just not restart the program with new engines and using new material and newer avionics.... IE lower overhead and startup costs. Essentially like they did with the 748i. And yes I am well aware that the 757 production is no longer in existence.
Do you think they will replace 1 by 1 for A321´s and B739´s???
That's a lot of question marks.
Quoting KingFriday013 (Reply 4): As I have said many times (not necessarily in here but I truly believe this), neither A321 or the B737-900ER are a true replacement for the 757. The 739ER was supposed to come close to the 757, but it is still short some seats and range. Neither the 321 nor the 739ER can pull off hot and high operations like the 757 could. The 757 is a hot rod in its own class. There truly is nothing like the 757 currently available.
I agree. I wonder if the current regime at Boeing regrets shuttering the 757 line with no follow on in place. It seems that many airlines, from freight carriers like FedEx to pax carriers like DL, are trying to get their hands on more 757's. Seems like a strong market still exists.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28476 posts, RR: 84 Reply 16, posted (3 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 8420 times:
Quoting Catiii (Reply 15): I wonder if the current regime at Boeing regrets shuttering the 757 line with no follow on in place.
I expect they are not. They did not close down the 757 line on a whim, but because the expected number of orders did not justify the expense of keeping the line open.
There is still demand for the type, which is why they're not being parted out, but the trend has been weakening with average lease rates down close to 40% on the oldest models and 30% on the newest over the past two years.
Nothing will "replace" the 757. She is timelessly gorgeous, still better-looking than anything of her generation in the sky, and pilots absolutely adore the aircraft to boot. Better cost performers will come along, sure, but let's not slander the airplane with words like "replacement" please
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
Brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3785 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7793 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8): The A321/737-900ER can do all the Europe & South America routes of interest. The 737-700 can do some of the Hawaii stuff. The only place where the 757 really has a leg up are the long-thin routes beyond the range of the A321/737-900ER, but there aren't enough of those to justify a complete replacement.
I agree with Mr. Canuck. The 737-700/800/900 were the intended replacements for the narrow body market but I don't think that any plane was necessary as a replacement since there is not really a market for this size and type of airliner. I don't really like being on a 757 for more then a two to three hours as it seems really claustrophobic and I feel like opening a door and going for a walk. Obviously this is not an option. The A321 may be a similar option but having flown them I can say the same thing, not great if you are travelling over 4 hours.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28476 posts, RR: 84 Reply 21, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7394 times:
Quoting B727fan (Reply 20): Just curious, considering the B757 success and demand, why does Boeing not make modifications and bring the production back on line instead of reinventing the wheel for a brand new replacement?
I believe Boeing destroyed the tooling to assemble a 757, and even if they didn't, they might not have the room at RTN to reconstitute the line. Also, how many 757 suppliers have destroyed their tooling or re-allocated that space to other products?
And with values and rental rates of used 757s falling, is there really demand for new-build models? Especially enough demand to support the costs of reconstituting the line?
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7253 times:
If, as has been suggested, Boeing's Y1 (737 replacement) is a scaled down 787, might it possibly be closer in size to the 757 than the 739 to meet the requirement for a replacement for both airplanes? As popular as the 739 has become, might that be pointing the way; reducing the number of smaller single aisle airliners and going with 739 sized airplanes and larger?
MIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1406 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7227 times:
It is true that Boeing and Airbus consider the B738/9 and the A321 the replacement for the B757 but in my opinion now the market has a gap because I can´t see a real replacement for B757 and B762.
Quoting ADent (Reply 9): A321 & 737-900ER for most missions. 737-800/-700 (I assume A319 also) for high performance and most range needs.
The B737-700 and the A319 have a very big range but they have 50-70 seats less.......
Quoting Brilondon (Reply 19): I don't really like being on a 757 for more then a two to three hours as it seems really claustrophobic and I feel like opening a door and going for a walk. Obviously this is not an option. The A321 may be a similar option but having flown them I can say the same thing, not great if you are travelling over 4 hours.
And I don´t want to be more than 20 minutes in the new AF B773 config......the problem is not the plane, the problem is the configuration.....
Quoting ATA L1011 (Reply 7): 757's will just be replaced with 737's and the A320 family and thse few Atlantic routes that it operates will be operated by 76,77,78 equipment by US carriers in the future.
I don´t think so, the few Atlantic routes they operates is because the bigger brothers can´t do it.
Another question, who is operating B753 and for what routes??? I have never seen one.....
Tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6425 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (3 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7175 times:
There will come a time, I'd say in about 20-25 years where the US majors will need a replacement for the 757 (at least for the older frames delivered in the late 1980s/early 1990s.) However all the US majors have late 757-200 deliveries stretching all the way into 2002. Until then airlines can just do regular MX checks and occasional interior upgrades and the 757 will stay efficient on many popular routes. The 757 is truly unlike any other.
When that time does come I would expect that boeing would get the message that the 739ER is not a feasible replacement for the 757 on certain routes that US airlines invest in. We're starting to see the early effects with CO and the 739ER on LAX-HNL and the occasional weight restrictions. Plus the 739ER isn't capable in flying east coast to europe. By then, I would expect that Boeing will have a replacement for the 757 with 787 technology advancement.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
25 Stitch: It might be, especially if Boeing (and Airbus) decide to no longer compete in the sub-125 seat market. So you could have a 150-seat, 175-seat, 200-se
26 ATA L1011: Well they can operate those routes, but is it effecient to do so since the put the 752 on those rte's in the 1st place. In the U.S Continental and DL
27 JHCRJ700: Is it me or is there a new thread every week about a 757 replacement.
28 VC10er: What would stop Embraer from designing a new platform that would fill the mission specs? Embraer has a great track record of identifying gaps in the m
29 SEPilot: No, it's not just you. There seems to be this myth around A-net that any successful plane MUST be replaced by one of exactly the same range and capac
30 Stitch: That would be quite a stretch from the EMB-19x series of aircraft. It is far more likely they - and Bombardier - will concentrate on the sub-150 seat
31 VC10er: It would be a totally new platform for Embraer. Like an E1000!
32 Par13del: Except that there are no small wide bodies being made anymore, everything is now upsized. The 767-200 was up sized and the current queen of that mark
33 Viscount724: The 767-200ER is still available to order, but I doubt any more will be built, except possibly as military tankers to replace the KC-135 if Boeing wi
34 MAH4546: 767-200ER is still available to order.
35 Par13del: Agree, was not technically correct, apologies. I concur, but stranger things have happened, but yes, if Boeing gets the tanker contract they may cont
36 SeaBosDca: What will replace the 757 for long or hot/high missions? A 737-800-size next-generation narrowbody with the engines from the largest variant of the sa
37 GymClassHero: This is my first post, so apologies if it seems newbie-ish (though I have had an account for over two years, just never posted before). Anyway, in my
38 Blueman87: DL is not All Boeing anymore there also NW
39 Tdscanuck: 1) The space has been taken over 2) The supply chain has been shut down for several years 3) That space/time/money is better spent building 737NG's 4
40 SEPilot: What's more, freight carriers in particular are generally more interested in used aircraft than new ones; likewise many airlines would snatch up used
41 AirNz: Can I ask why you don't like the idea of an upgraded A321? It's not possible to simply re-open the 757 line and add all the 'mod cons' you are all su
42 KingFriday013: I know it's not really a valid reason, but I've never been very fond of the A321. I've never flown on one, but if it's anything like the rest of the
43 Tdscanuck: I'm not certain that all of it was, but the most likely reason is cost. Not always, but it's really common. That's the biggie...these are big tools i
44 GymClassHero: Let's do a little thought experiment, if Boeing had NOT ended production on the 757, and re-engineered it with things like... -Updated wing (not neces
45 Tdscanuck: Given that the A320/737NG were already in production, and can do almost all of the missions, how in the world could the 757 be competitive in price a
46 GymClassHero: Carriers replace the 757 because of age, not size. If they wanted to increase frequency/reduce capacity they would be replacing them with A320s/738s,
47 MrSkyGuy: I think the forum, while well intentioned, are forgetting a critical fact Boeing has cited on a number of occasions as to why the 757 does not [in the
48 Lightsaber: This Sept. 2005 article sums up the fate of the 757 very well: http://www.aircraft-commerce.com/sam...ticles/fleet_planning_2_sample.pdf Please see th
49 2707200X: I think an out right airframe replacement will not come for years to come for the 757, they may just be rerouted and cut back to different cities or r
50 GymClassHero: I doubt a major airline would take scrap value, though (one's that own them), it'd be a lot more economical to sit on the aircraft and run it out than
51 Tdscanuck: I think you missed my point. The A320/737NG are competitive in efficiency *now*, so you'd be pitting a very well established and nicely humming produ
52 Jimbobjoe: As wonderful as the 757 is, I suggest that it may never be replaced. It's simply not ideal for most routes. Too capable (heavy) for almost all routes
53 Keesje: I think in the next 20 years there is a market of around 2000 aircraft in the 200-270 seat short / medium haul segment. Apart from the 757 fleet there
54 AirNZ: No, if it's your reason then it's valid enough and I was essentially just curious is all. Now I am really curious how you can not be fond of somethin
55 KingFriday013: I don't know... it has always just sorta creeped me out. The engines (especially the CFMs) look really tiny on it! And maybe the lack of wheels... I